School me on diamonds (grading/cut/setting)

[Grandmaster TSE]

you get her the ring because she gives you BJs

[punkwax]

In many cases, she gives you BJs until you give her the ring.

[Manic!]

Originally Posted by Big Earl

funny guy.

Think about this once the sandwich is in your body who cares. Same goes for the ring. Once she puts it on who cares whats it worth. Only if she says no then you gotta worry about the resale value.

[Nechako87]

The comments in this thread are both hilarious and informative. thanks guys/girls!

[Lomac]

FYI: Most jewellers will buy back a diamond ring at full cost should things go wrong.

[dygital]

taking a course in gemstones right now
There are 4 big C's, Carat (mass), Clarity, Color and Cut

Carat is the size of the rock and you pay for more rock, pretty simple.

Clarity is if there are any imperfections in the diamond. These include things imperfections like clouding and grains. Flawless is the best you can get and also hardest to find and is denoted by Fl. Then comes IF (Interally Flawless), VVS1 (Very Very Slightly), VVS2, VS1, VS2, SI, and then I.

Color is what color the diamond is. A perfect diamond is colourless and is classified with D and you work your way down the alphabet to Z for a very yellow and ugly diamond. Usually diamonds in EFG still look damn white, and is very hard to notice when set on jewellery.

The last C is cut which is just how the stone is cut. Diamonds that are cut properly are cut in such a way to maximize reflection. There are many cuts of diamonds but the most popular is round brilliant.

As for the purchase of the actual ring, I don't really have a suggestion but I would personally avoid buying the stone and then setting it on the ring afterwards. The reason is that they MAY switch the stones out, which is probably very unlikely but can happen. Also, and this happened to my dad, is that after they set the stone, they may damage the diamond and it would be very very difficult to see and you would not be the wiser since they are very very hard to spot even with with a loupe

[seakrait]

when i bought my wife's engagement ring, carat was the first factor, followed by cut (a badly cut diamond can make it seem dull instead of sparkly), colour, then clarity (you can hardly see the imperfections without a loupe).

0.765c iirc


we wanted a simple ring, with 4 prongs at compass points (forming a diamond shape rather than a square - helps to keep the diamond looking round), and a rounded slim band. weird thing was that despite its simplicity, we couldn't find that ring design in stock anywhere. i did look at Tiffany&Co but their bands were ridiculously uncomfortable (band was blade-like perpendicular to fingers). we actually had to go to a local ring designer (ron davidson designs) to get it made.

[Nechako87]

I would rather get a colourless, higher clarity stone rather than a larger carat. I'm thinking she wants something in the range of 1.5-2.0 carats, because that's what she seems to be looking for. I want to know if there is a correlation between the colour/clarity and size of the diamond (i.e. a VVS2/E 1.0 K would be the same as a VS2/G 1.75 K)

I just made up those numbers, but I hope you guys/girls understand what I'm trying to get at. She is looking for a cushion cut, and I also don't know if this is the best cut to get. I was discussing with my friend about his wife's ring, and he said if you set a round brilliant in a certain way you can actually make the diamond look larger than what it is.

[StewartJD]

When you've come to a conclusion on the specs of what you are looking for, I would suggest any one of these:

Brian Gavin Designer Engagement Rings|Loose Diamonds|Custom Engagement Rings

Whiteflash Diamonds, Engagement rings, Jewelry in Houston jewelry store | Whiteflash

James Allenhttp://www.jamesallen.com

Good Old Gold The Ultimate Diamond Information Site - GoodOldGold.com

These sites come up quite a bit when you check out pricescope.com forums.

I had a great experience buying my e-ring from Brian Gavin, and had two close friends who had great experiences buying from whiteflash and jamesallen. I don't think you can go wrong.

[Gunsmokez]

Save the trouble of looking for diamonds online ( The 4 C's )and worrying about frigging scam etc.

Save the trouble of looking for local merchants that are capable of setting the stone properly. Especially if you are anything like me, Anal as fuck and notice every dam thing.

Save the trouble of having to explain to your future wife of where the fuck you bought it. Try explaining to her, how you scoured the internet for weeks looking for the best bang for buck loose diamond.

Also, as a guy I know naturally it is obvious you want to save as much money as frigging possible and it is just a dam ring. But guess what WOMEN do care!!!

Do your self a favor, and get Tiffany's. All their diamonds are well cut and have no fuck ups. Settings are unique and you also get the branding of "Honey this is a holly mother fucker Tiffanys"

My 2 cents.

[MoBettah]

Originally Posted by Gunsmokez

Save the trouble of looking for diamonds online ( The 4 C's )and worrying about frigging scam etc.

Save the trouble of looking for local merchants that are capable of setting the stone properly. Especially if you are anything like me, Anal as fuck and notice every dam thing.

Save the trouble of having to explain to your future wife of where the fuck you bought it. Try explaining to her, how you scoured the internet for weeks looking for the best bang for buck loose diamond.

Also, as a guy I know naturally it is obvious you want to save as much money as frigging possible and it is just a dam ring. But guess what WOMEN do care!!!

Do your self a favor, and get Tiffany's. All their diamonds are well cut and have no fuck ups. Settings are unique and you also get the branding of "Honey this is a holly mother fucker Tiffanys"

My 2 cents.

No. You have no clue what you're talking about

A diamond is a diamond is a diamond. There is no such thing as a branded diamond. You pay a huge markup for a box and a name. Do you give a shit if your platinum is Gucci? or your stainless steel is LV? or your carbon fiber is Cartier?

Besides real ballers think Tiffany's is a diluted brand for the masses. If you insist on going the "branded" route, at least step up to Harry Winston / Van Cleef ect. ect.

[Gunsmokez]

Yes diamonds are pretty much the same. Other the the 4'c. But, what I'm suggesting is save your time and headache and just get it from an established brand retailer.

However much you hate the retailer, I mentioned. You can not knock on their quality.

Should note, that I mentioned Tiffany because they DO have settings at affordable prices.

[noventa]

and they are shiny

[MG1]

Shining bright like a diamond, shining bright like a diamond.......... gawd, I hate that frickin' song.

[Vansterdam]

LIKE A DIAMOND IN THE SKYYYYYY

[JizzMasterZero]

Okay thought I'd post since I realized that most of the posts were quoting Rihanna's song or talking about BJ's for life.

This is what you need to know and do. I am in no way an expert, but was in the same boat as you, so did a ton of research online and in stores.

First and foremost: Determine your budget. Pick a final number and stick with it. This in itself plays the biggest role. Don't fall into the trap of trying to buy something you can barely afford, or trying to keep up with other people's rings. I've seen time and time again, people purchasing rings that they can't afford. Your girl will say yes to anything, otherwise don't bother getting engaged.

Second: Two things to consider: the diamond and the setting. You can buy them locally or online.

Pros of online: Save money, but duty can be a headache. Decent online stores include bluenile, adiamor, and also the other ones listed by previous posters.
Pros of local: Typically more expensive, but not always. Having said that, Buy local and support local. This may help in the long-run because some stores offer free resizings and cleaning for life. Some stores even have a diamond buy-back guarantee, so if you want to purchase a more expensive diamond later, they'll buy back the diamond for the price they sold it to you at. As well, some dealers say that if they set your own provided diamond, they cannot guarantee it if it cracks while setting it. I always felt that to be a total myth that was used for stores to convince you to buy their own diamonds, but recently I came across a dealer selling a diamond that had cracked for a bargain basement price.


For the diamond:

-Read pricescope.com for everything you need to know.
-THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS THE DIAMOND CUT. Unfortunately, stores try to sell you on grade or color because that's the easiest to show the customer. In reality, the most important thing to spend more money on is the diamond cut, because that's going to make it the shiniest thing you notice. Definitely pay more for the best cut you can afford. Cheaper cuts appear dull under light.
-Color and Clarity are the other things to consider. D/E/F are indistinguishable. F/G are also indistinguishable. Once you go to G/H, you start to notice a bit of colour, especially if you go over 1ct and especially if you go over 1.5carats. This point was contentious online, but I went to multiple stores and looked at dozens of diamonds under light and in the sunlight and could tell the differences between H and a F.
-For clarity, it goes VVS/VS/SI/I. No need to waste money on a VVS. I would highly recommend a VS2 for pricing. SI (small inclusions) are technically not supposed to be visible at an arm's length, and some people say that there are "eye-clean" SI-1's out there, but I looked a ton of SI1's and once you see that inclusion, it can't be unseen. It's all you end up noticing. Si2 was even worse. If you see a store selling a SI3, it's now deemed a "fake" grade out there, and falls under the I (inclusion) category. In the end, if you want an eye-clean diamond, the lowest you can go is a VS2 IMO.
-Finally, consider carats. If you go down the list and try to maximize your bang for buck with the first 3, then you will be left with a very small range of diamond sizing that you can afford.
-Oops one last thing I forgot to mention is fluorescence. I find that this is the smallest factor to consider, but having a diamond with any fluorescence took away from its shine a bit. All things else being equal, dealers price diamonds with fluorescence slightly cheaper.

For the setting:
-Check websites, like tiffany's, birk's, tacori, even zale's (for the vera wang collection). Also, check out the forums on pricescope, under "show me the bling", and there are tons of people's engagement ring designs.
-You can get it made locally, or buy a pre-fabricated one, it's totally your call.



There's a ton more stuff to go through, but this should cover the basics.

I would read into the different grading systems as well.


As a general rule for pricing, I estimate a 1 carat with pretty solid specs and the setting for $10,000; a 1.5 carat for 15,000; a 2.0 carat for 20,000. Of course there can HUGE variations depending on the setting, if you decide to buy a name brand diamond, etc.

Good luck!

[6thGear.]

Originally Posted by Special K

Go to Spence for a crash course on diamonds. They tell you and show you the 4Cs with the microscope.

I wouldn't buy from Spence though because their settings are crap and diamonds are overpiced.

Really? I felt the ring I bought from Spence wasn't too bad at all. Round Brilliant, Color E, SI2, 0.54CT with Platinum band costed me under $4000. I found a similar one at Birks (Color H, 0.49CT) for $6000 and the band wasn't even platinum(was 15K white gold band). If you think Spence is over priced, don't ever walk into Birks.

[Hakkaboy]

Good advice from JMZ above.

I just wanted to add that if you're buying online (like I did), you can check the lab reports directly online in PDF format. You will need the cert # and weight.

Verify a Diamond Grading Report (AGS)
GIA Report Check

The reason is sometimes the retailer will send you a crappy scanned copy, or some times they may even somehow show an inclusion diagrams is somehow blanked out

i know that goodoldgood and whiteflash, although very reputable, do this on their online reports. But again, click on the link and check the unedited copy yourself.

And general rule regarding which lab reports are more trustworty.

GIA's cut grade (incl. polish & symmetry) only goes up to "Excellent", while AGS goes to "Ideal". Some will argue that AGS has tighter tolerances for grades, but you will be fine in buying apretty much any triple Ex/Ex/Ex stone. GIA will only give a cut grade to round diamond, and not any fancy shapes. They still grade polish & symmetry for fancy (non-round), but just not a third "cut" grade. AGS will give a cut grade to princess and cushion as well. They will also grade for "light performance" on certain reports, assuming than the diamond seller pays for the higher testing. Usually sellers of really nice diamonds will pay for this testing because they know their diamonds will score well. Sellers that know their diamonds will not score well will typically get an EGL certification, as it will typically grade the diamond better than it actually is.

GIA is slightly stricter than AGS on colour, while AGS is stricter than GIA on clarity.
Don't bother with EGL unless your gf wants a better diamond than you can actually afford and just want brag to her friends that she has a D VVS1 which is actually a G VS2 or something. I'm just making up a scenario, but EGL is known to be softer on grading than GIA/AGS. You won't go wrong with a GIA/AGS certified stone.

As for me, I bought my loose stone from Leon Mege @ artofplatinum.com and ordered my setting locally which was custom made and set by Tacori.

But i frequented the same list as StewardJD's post above, and is a very good start to buying online with a peace of mind.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Nechako87

I would rather get a colourless, higher clarity stone rather than a larger carat. I'm thinking she wants something in the range of 1.5-2.0 carats, because that's what she seems to be looking for. I want to know if there is a correlation between the colour/clarity and size of the diamond (i.e. a VVS2/E 1.0 K would be the same as a VS2/G 1.75 K)

I just made up those numbers, but I hope you guys/girls understand what I'm trying to get at. She is looking for a cushion cut, and I also don't know if this is the best cut to get. I was discussing with my friend about his wife's ring, and he said if you set a round brilliant in a certain way you can actually make the diamond look larger than what it is.

Err FYI, 1.5-2.0 carats for a single diamond is pretty huge. How big are her hands? And more importantly, I believe my mom has a good quality diamond just above 1 carat and it cost well over $20k...

[Special K]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

Really? I felt the ring I bought from Spence wasn't too bad at all. Round Brilliant, Color E, SI2, 0.54CT with Platinum band costed me under $4000. I found a similar one at Birks (Color H, 0.49CT) for $6000 and the band wasn't even platinum(was 15K white gold band). If you think Spence is over priced, don't ever walk into Birks.

Customer service at Spence is probably the best. But the setting demos at Spence are nothing like Tacori. (I know... I am comparing apples to oranges).

Diamond wise, I think Spence's price is similar to any other local jewellers. So it's way more expensive than online. Do they offer GIA/AGS certs? I think Spence "adopt" GIA guidelines only.

I think you got a pretty good deal with a platinum

Obviously when I walk into Birks, I expect way higher price.

[freakshow]

Before you get lost in online specs, spending most of your time at work looking at settings and numbers, go into a store and get them to show you the difference between the Cs. It's easy to say, oh, I'm definitely getting a VS2, but unless you have a pretty crazy budget, you should see the difference for yourself.

This goes for all the Cs, for example, a 2carat diamond is pretty fricken huge. Even if you can afford it, it depends on how big her hands are. if she is a 90lb asian, it might just look awkward.

I had my wife's ring custom made at minichiellos. They're a family owned businees, and I had great experience from start to finish.

What is your budget anyways?

[Alby]

Originally Posted by 6thGear.

Really? I felt the ring I bought from Spence wasn't too bad at all. Round Brilliant, Color E, SI2, 0.54CT with Platinum band costed me under $4000. I found a similar one at Birks (Color H, 0.49CT) for $6000 and the band wasn't even platinum(was 15K white gold band). If you think Spence is over priced, don't ever walk into Birks.

whoa thats overpriced. i went to a local store in richmond and got a .73ct/e/vvs2 round cut for 5K.

[JizzMasterZero]

Also should mention that the sizing makes a difference. Just like how condos are graded by price per square foot, you should also look at price per carat (ppc).

That number goes up with each step in size, and some people try to save money by picking a size below the "landmark" sizes. The landmark sizes are 1.0 ct, 1.5 ct, 2.0ct, 2.5 ct. The price per carat being just below those sizes tends to be cheaper; thus some people try to get 1.4 or 1.9 ct diamonds to try to maximize their money. The difficulty is that not as many diamonds are cut in those sizes and selection is much more limited.

Also, keep in mind that no 2 diamonds are identical, despite their specs being totally equal. A good thing about buying locally I forgot to mention is that you can actually see the diamond and if you're not happy with it, you can get the store to bring in several more to compare.

[freakshow]

But if your wife ever asks you about the process, don't tell her that you took advice from "freakshow" and "Jizz Master Zero"

[TheKingdom2000]

Cut is the most important. ie. how much it sparkles.

Get the BEST cut possible, then worry about the other C's.