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Old 03-01-2013, 11:13 PM   #26
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yeah ive been following all the shit that Christy has been trying to pull heck even the Conservatives on the national front

and its mind boggling to me that Canadians/British Columbians aren't up in arms calling for a revolution (europeans/middle-easterns/asians rise up and demonstrate/riot over far, far less)
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:57 AM   #27
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Honestly, I am not going to rag on the Liberals like a lot of you are ragging on the NDP.. I think it is about time that this province finally have a government that will work for the WORKING class.. 8 years of the LIBS is enough for me.. I can tell you that I will be putting all my resources into this upcoming election and making sure that the next government will provide adequate support for the middle class.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:03 AM   #28
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Ok.

Fine.

But if we have another Fast Ferry Fiasco, I get to say "I told you so".
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:14 AM   #29
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Ok.

Fine.

But if we have another Fast Ferry Fiasco, I get to say "I told you so".

DEAL!!
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:46 AM   #30
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Because, unlike the HST issue, things like this aren't affecting us on a daily basis in a manner we're able to see.

It's how people in BC are, though. You can play the Game of Thrones behind the scenes as much as you want, but don't you fucking dare add a two cent tax to my coffee!



Edit: Yes, I'm still bitter over the fact that the BC population decided to be idiots and repeal the HST.
I bet you that if the Liberals had gone about it the correct way the HST would have been implemented.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:52 AM   #31
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Honestly, I am not going to rag on the Liberals like a lot of you are ragging on the NDP.. I think it is about time that this province finally have a government that will work for the WORKING class.. 8 years of the LIBS is enough for me.. I can tell you that I will be putting all my resources into this upcoming election and making sure that the next government will provide adequate support for the middle class.
From what I got from this, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you are pro-NDP.
If you are pro-NDP and you think that them being in power will support the middle class... you are in for a rude awakening. Unless you just want some short term support that doesn't really mean anything and will murder you in the long run.
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Old 03-02-2013, 06:18 AM   #32
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From what I got from this, and please correct me if I'm wrong, you are pro-NDP.
If you are pro-NDP and you think that them being in power will support the middle class... you are in for a rude awakening. Unless you just want some short term support that doesn't really mean anything and will murder you in the long run.
Thanks for your thoughts.. I seriously just decided to be an NDP supporter without looking into the party at all.. It was a guess; but i appreciate you giving me the correct info.. I will stop writing research papers in my stupid poli sci class about the left wing.. LOL no only kidding

Just giving you a hard time.. honestly though dude, I think my mind is kind of made up.. I appreciate the heads up though..

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Old 03-02-2013, 09:22 AM   #33
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I think a lot of people focus on the party, when you need to focus on the system.

After a party is in power for too long, you need a change. Pure and simple. Despite not being popular changes, the liberals had an excellent first term. They did some great things to bring the budget under control, and spur investment.

Yes...changes to social programs came with that.

Now in term 3, they are a little cocky. They fucked up on the HST. No denying that.

So the NDP are going to win the election. They'll probably have a good first term. We know its going to be more social program focused. Would have preferred to see the economy a little more robust for that, but we know its going to happen. Taxes are going to go up. Prepared for that too.

It's term 2 and 3 that get a little dicey. They are going to care a bit less, because they have momentum from previous elections and so on, and they are going to be cocky too. In that time, the liberals or whoever will be tired of taking second seat and will be hungry for the election. And NDP cockyness gets us a fast ferry, or a bridge to nowhere or any of 1000 things that politicians do to fuck up the program.

Fuck, even if Clark and the party weren't so down in the polls, I still don't think they could put on a decent election because they aren't hungry for it.

And 2 minutes after losing the election, Clark is going to resign...which I think is bullshit. She should stick it out during the bad times.
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Old 03-02-2013, 11:07 AM   #34
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So whose paying for it all? typical entitled Canadian attitude. I think we have it really good. Not having to worry about healthcare is already huge.
Hong Kong has a greater wealth gap than the US btw.
Dude we should not be comparing ourselves to places in Asia. FUCK ASIA, im sick of how everyone compares Canada to Asia.

I know 80% of revscene is probably Asian, but when it comes to politics. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to countries that have an inferior average standard of living. So what if I want free healthcare and want better standard of livings?, based on GDP, our country should be able to afford it.

We should be comparing ourselves to our peers: USA, Australia, European countries like Germany, UK, France, the scandanavian countries like Sweden, Norway etc.

at least the countries above are much more similar to us.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #35
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Dude we should not be comparing ourselves to places in Asia. FUCK ASIA, im sick of how everyone compares Canada to Asia.

I know 80% of revscene is probably Asian, but when it comes to politics. We shouldn't be comparing ourselves to countries that have an inferior average standard of living. So what if I want free healthcare and want better standard of livings?, based on GDP, our country should be able to afford it.

We should be comparing ourselves to our peers: USA, Australia, European countries like Germany, UK, France, the scandanavian countries like Sweden, Norway etc.

at least the countries above are much more similar to us.
you referring to me or stylinred? the only reason I mentioned HK is that he listed it as one of the comparable countries to Canada in a few posts up, which I disagreed.

From the Economist on the Nordic countries everyone likes to cite as having a high standard of living and the whole "why can't we do the same?" argument.
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Pragmatism also explains why the Nordics are continuing to upgrade their model. They still have plenty of problems. Their governments remain too big and their private sectors too small. Their taxes are still too high and some of their benefits too generous. The Danish system of flexicurity puts too much emphasis on security and not enough on flexibility. Norway’s oil boom is threatening to destroy the work ethic. It is a bad sign that over 6% of the workforce are on sick leave at any one time and around 9% of the working-age population live on disability pensions.
http://www.economist.com/news/specia...d-secret-their
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #36
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HK was under british rule for a long time... its just as much a "peer" or "similar" as uk/aus with similar beliefs/governance yada yada
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:31 PM   #37
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We should be comparing ourselves to our peers: USA, Australia, European countries like Germany, UK, France, the scandanavian countries like Sweden, Norway etc.

at least the countries above are much more similar to us.
The problem with the political culture in Canada is that people want something for nothing. They see low taxes in the States, but think that low taxes would work here and pay for all of the entitlements we enjoy such as government subsidized health care, generous pensions and old age programs, employment insurance, low tuition, and so on. Scandinavian countries all pay much higher taxes than we do. Germany probably has the most well-balanced economy, but has a tradition of manufacturing and engineering excellence.
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Old 03-02-2013, 01:43 PM   #38
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I've no problem in paying high taxes if it's used properly and we reap the benefits, I don't really see that we're getting all we can get from it
Most of the taxes is paid by the upper half, the other half pays almost nothing. Whatever they do pay, goes back to themselves. Looking at that chart, 5.7% of the population pays 46.6% of the taxes (7.5% pays 52%, 26% pays 83.4% and so on).


source: CBC

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Not having to worry about healthcare? but we do since the govt. is constantly trying to axe and encumber the system and switch us to a private system thanks to the private sector lobby
Different issue but for the most part right now I can walk into a clinic, get a surgery (with possibly some wait times?), and have a kid born for free. However, this is just what I think as I rarely if ever use the services.

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We have a wealth of natural resources as mentioned by cic but even places with similar populations are able to offer more than just healthcare they're able to provide post-secondary education and even virtually free petrol to its citizens to name a few services (AND INSANELY LOW TAXATION); yet we, a wealthier nation, with far more potential for growth are struggling to keep what services we have not because we can't afford it but because we bend ourselves over and take it
Gordon Thiessen, Bank of Canada Governor, 1999:
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During the 1970s, world prices for the primary commodities that Canada exports soared relative to prices in general. And they remained high through to the early 1980s. Since then, however, commodity prices have typically been on a downward trend. And, of course, they fell sharply in the wake of the Asian crisis in 1997-98, before partly recovering in 1999. We have to take this into account when we examine what happened to our standard of living in the 1990s compared with earlier decades.

We also need to look at what has happened to personal income after taxes. From the mid-1970s to the early 1990s, tax revenues did not cover government spending and we were getting deeper and deeper into debt. In other words, we were living beyond our means. During the 1990s, taxes rose and government transfers and other expenditures were cut back relative to the size of our economy to reduce the burden of those large public debts that had accumulated during the previous two decades. Measures of after-tax income in the 1990s reflect that sobering reality.

So these are some of the factors that have weakened the link between productivity and living standards in recent years. In the long run, however, productivity is, without a doubt, the key element contributing to our prosperity. Productivity growth is the foundation for real income growth—it allows businesses to pay higher real wages and still keep costs down and remain profitable.

There is one important difference between productivity and the other factors that influence our living standards. The difference is that there are no constraints on productivity and its ability to contribute to improvements in our welfare on a sustained basis. The other factors are constrained by physical, institutional, and legal limitations. For example, there is a limit to the proportion of the population that can, and will, engage in economic activity. Similarly, there are limits on the length of the work week. On the other hand, there does not seem to be an upper bound on capital accumulation over time or on the growth of human knowledge or on the degree to which both can result in higher productivity.
http://www.bankofcanada.ca/1999/12/s...andard-living/

It's very easy to say and make a general statement that because Canada is resource rich, its citizens should have a high standard of living but of course there has to be demand for Canadian resources in the first place and the country needs to receive good market rates for the resources that are sold. Don't we practically give the States our oil for nothing? Resources is also probably what's keeping our country afloat since we have few industries and a lack of innovation. Call it Canadian complacency if you will. Out of that list, the only country I'm aware of that provides free post-secondary is Germany, Denmark, and Saudi Arabia (which I've read has near-free petrol). I wouldn't even compare Germany to us as they are actually innovative and is one of the EU countries with a robust economy while Denmark has a small population so its relatively easier to provide a higher standard of living (all the Nordic countries populations combined total around 25 million), although they have to pay even higher taxes to afford it, which I am not in favor of.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:00 PM   #39
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HK was under british rule for a long time... its just as much a "peer" or "similar" as uk/aus with similar beliefs/governance yada yada
Yeah but I don't think their "better" than us, if anything it goes to show the opposite.

Off the top of my head, no social safety net, ~$4 CAD minimum wage ($28 HKD or so), high housing cost (only ~49% of homes are privately owned and the rest are a mix of public housing) but low taxes and no government deficit.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:29 PM   #40
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Honestly, I am not going to rag on the Liberals like a lot of you are ragging on the NDP.. I think it is about time that this province finally have a government that will work for the WORKING class.. 8 years of the LIBS is enough for me.. I can tell you that I will be putting all my resources into this upcoming election and making sure that the next government will provide adequate support for the middle class.
NDP is all for supporting the working class... as long as they belong to a union. Good luck if you own or work for a small business or a non-union trade.
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Old 03-02-2013, 02:43 PM   #41
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NDP is all for supporting the working class... as long as they belong to a union. Good luck if you own or work for a small business or a non-union trade.
hearing some of the owners/managers of people in my company/industry (private) talk about the upcoming election i seriously have this image going through my mind

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Old 03-02-2013, 02:56 PM   #42
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NDP is all for supporting the working class... as long as they belong to a union. Good luck if you own or work for a small business or a non-union trade.
While this has been generally true, at least Jack Layton's last platform included a "promise" (yeah, I know lol) to lower the Small Business Tax by 2%.

I've actually been going through a bunch of the old platforms for the NDP and Liberal party over the past decade or so. The one thing that has always stood out, which I suppose will come as no real surprise, is that the NDP are constantly promising millions upon millions of dollars of tax relief and credit relief to different things, yet not a single one has talked about how they would do it. Hell, even now they've yet to release a platform for the upcoming election and I'll guarantee not a word of it will talk about tax increases or spending cuts.

At least the Liberals had the balls to introduce the HST, regardless of how bad of a job they did when doing so.

The biggest thing I hate about election time, whether it's Municipal or Federal, is that there tends to be very little talk about how things will change. It always resorts to a mud sling between parties where they try to outdo one another by spilling every little dark secret and mistake they made. Fucking pisses me off.
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:05 PM   #43
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While this has been generally true, at least Jack Layton's last platform included a "promise" (yeah, I know lol) to lower the Small Business Tax by 2%.

I've actually been going through a bunch of the old platforms for the NDP and Liberal party over the past decade or so. The one thing that has always stood out, which I suppose will come as no real surprise, is that the NDP are constantly promising millions upon millions of dollars of tax relief and credit relief to different things, yet not a single one has talked about how they would do it. Hell, even now they've yet to release a platform for the upcoming election and I'll guarantee not a word of it will talk about tax increases or spending cuts.

At least the Liberals had the balls to introduce the HST, regardless of how bad of a job they did when doing so.

The biggest thing I hate about election time, whether it's Municipal or Federal, is that there tends to be very little talk about how things will change. It always resorts to a mud sling between parties where they try to outdo one another by spilling every little dark secret and mistake they made. Fucking pisses me off.


A gentle reminder to you all.


BC NDP IS NOT The NDP Of Canada

BC Liberal Party IS NOT The Liberal Party of Canada
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Old 03-02-2013, 03:12 PM   #44
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^^

I think we all realize that. Truth be told, BC Liberals are more or less on par with the Conservative Party of Canada, and BC NDP are similar to the Liberal Party of Canada. Sure, each party has a different ideology but politically speaking, that's pretty much how they stack up.

Edit: And I meant to write Carol James, not Jack Layton.
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Old 03-02-2013, 05:20 PM   #45
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A gentle reminder to you all.


BC NDP IS NOT The NDP Of Canada

BC Liberal Party IS NOT The Liberal Party of Canada
So close.

The BC liberals are severed, but membership in the NDP in BC is membership nationally.
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Old 03-02-2013, 10:28 PM   #46
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One thing I've noticed since moving here, 14 yrs ago, we go liberal, NDP, liberal, NDP

Both parties disappoint, so we go with the other, then disappoint, go with the other.

Basically, both suck. Our political systems is just so weak, we have no good leaders, I wish I could get a little bit excited about politics, and making my neighbourhood, city, and province a better place, but all options just suck.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:55 AM   #47
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I hope Christy Clark steps down or gets fired. When I hear from a friend she's sitting down to dinner with a top alberta oil exec and tells him the northern gateway project will go through no matter what that pisses me off extremely. This doesn't surprise me though, a lot of times the Governments "consultation" is just a smoke show
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I hope Christy Clark steps down or gets fired. When I hear from a friend she's sitting down to dinner with a top alberta oil exec and tells him the northern gateway project will go through no matter what...
Yeah, because anti-pipeline/Liberal/oil/blue-sky/sunspots/whatever people NEVER make shit up to support their views.

(Note: NOT saying your friend is making this up, or that it's not true... just that there's plenty of BS floating around on both sides of the issue and people love to gravitate to and repeat anything that supports their view. "I heard it from a friend" is far from "proof", let alone valid evidence.)
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One thing I've noticed since moving here, 14 yrs ago, we go liberal, NDP, liberal, NDP

Both parties disappoint, so we go with the other, then disappoint, go with the other.

Basically, both suck. Our political systems is just so weak, we have no good leaders, I wish I could get a little bit excited about politics, and making my neighbourhood, city, and province a better place, but all options just suck.
Part of the problem is, thanks to TV, movies and media, a lot of Canadians have this image of a US-style system where the President is pretty much the ultimate power and that's who you're voting for. Thing is, in the Canadian system, you don't have the option of voting directly for the leader, you only get to vote for your representative. All too often, I think, people will NOT vote for a better MLA for them, because they don't like that MLA's party, or worse, the party's leader. And so people manage to "send a message" to the leader or party they don't like, but end up with someone representing them who maybe isn't the best person for the job.

It's not a weakness of the system, per se, so much as Canadians' understanding of it.
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Part of the problem is, thanks to TV, movies and media, a lot of Canadians have this image of a US-style system where the President is pretty much the ultimate power and that's who you're voting for. Thing is, in the Canadian system, you don't have the option of voting directly for the leader, you only get to vote for your representative. All too often, I think, people will NOT vote for a better MLA for them, because they don't like that MLA's party, or worse, the party's leader. And so people manage to "send a message" to the leader or party they don't like, but end up with someone representing them who maybe isn't the best person for the job.

It's not a weakness of the system, per se, so much as Canadians' understanding of it.
As we're seeing everyday these days, the US system doesn't work... And I'm extremely pro US.

I hate politics and politicians, I wish we had margerat thatcher to lead the world. She was amazing! John major wasn't bad, too
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