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Old 03-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #51
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Yeah, because anti-pipeline/Liberal/oil/blue-sky/sunspots/whatever people NEVER make shit up to support their views.

(Note: NOT saying your friend is making this up, or that it's not true... just that there's plenty of BS floating around on both sides of the issue and people love to gravitate to and repeat anything that supports their view. "I heard it from a friend" is far from "proof", let alone valid evidence.)
Her aunt and uncle are involved in the oil industry in Alberta and when she was at a dinner with them out there the oil exec came up to talk to her aunt and uncle, telling them he had lunch with christy Clark a few days prior and that's what she had said to him. Maybe the oil exec was lying but what if he wasn't and that's really what was said. I honestly have no reason to not believe her as she's not one of those types of people that would lie. I personally do not surround myself with negative people who lie and anyone that knows me knows this
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:17 PM   #52
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Of course the pipeline is going to go through. The keystone one will as well. So for her to talk to anyone and say anything but would be a lie. Now, the interesting thing is the one people she isn't stating so clearly to is the public. And that, among many other things will cost her the election.
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:12 PM   #53
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Is there a link to the leak memo or more news about what was so controversial?

Only got glimpse of it here and there and not too sure what to make of it.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:46 PM   #54
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http://bcndpcaucus.ca/files/liberal_...tural_plan.pdf <-- link to the full memo. Found it in a Globe and Mail article. So worth the $5 a month for unlimited access.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:33 AM   #55
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Hands up, anyone who believes the NDP isn't brainstorming exactly the same kinds of ideas, and just hasn't been outed (yet)?

Notice how it was the NDP who released this "leaked" memo... how do you figure it was "leaked" to them? Probably some no-name Liberal back-bencher with an axe to grind and access to the email chain. Find some disillusioned NDP hack and I bet you get the same thing happening the other way.

The NDP are looking like they're playing nice by not running "attack ads", but going rummaging through the competitions closets for some skeletons to "let slip" is hardly any better. Politics is a dirty business, and nobody's hand are clean.

BTW, one political analyst on the radio today noted that it's not only possible, but entirely likely that CC and other "upper" staff had no idea that this memo was being circulated within a certain corner of the party, until it was "leaked". He also noted that taking the time to investigate the issue, as the party is doing, rather than just flying off the handle with knee-jerk reactions, is generally the best way to handle these things.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:13 AM   #56
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what's controversial is the use of taxpayer funds not pandering to ethnic groups
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:24 AM   #57
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Hands up, anyone who believes the NDP isn't brainstorming exactly the same kinds of ideas, and just hasn't been outed (yet)?

Notice how it was the NDP who released this "leaked" memo... how do you figure it was "leaked" to them? Probably some no-name Liberal back-bencher with an axe to grind and access to the email chain. Find some disillusioned NDP hack and I bet you get the same thing happening the other way.

The NDP are looking like they're playing nice by not running "attack ads", but going rummaging through the competitions closets for some skeletons to "let slip" is hardly any better. Politics is a dirty business, and nobody's hand are clean.

BTW, one political analyst on the radio today noted that it's not only possible, but entirely likely that CC and other "upper" staff had no idea that this memo was being circulated within a certain corner of the party, until it was "leaked". He also noted that taking the time to investigate the issue, as the party is doing, rather than just flying off the handle with knee-jerk reactions, is generally the best way to handle these things.
Well, the memo repeatedly refers to the NDP as some sort of 'best in class' in the area of reaching out to "the ethnics", so one would assume that they are either better at reaching out to these communities by default, or have already done this type of work.

The problem is, this whole memo was done with gov't resources and makes any action they take at a multi-cultural event to be pre-medatated and pandering-JUST that feeling you want as a so-called "ethnic" voter right before an election.

"Hey! Let's apologize for some historical wrongs because, we white folk have a lot of things in the closet for one, and ethnics seem to love themselves some apologizin'"

Wow...so full of bad.

The NDP right now are playing a very nice political game.

Smear opposing party without getting any dirt on ourselves? Check.
Shut the fuck up and when in doubt shut the fuck up and if necessary, have the leader say it because anyone else stands a chance of fucking up? Big check.
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:30 AM   #58
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and as for who leaked the memo

it looks like Christy wants to blame her multiculturalism minister

Minister of State for Multiculturalism steps aside | News1130


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VICTORIA (NEWS1130) – British Columbia’s Minister of State for Multiculturalism John Yap has stepped aside.

Premier Christy Clark says Minister of State for Seniors, Ralph Sultan, will be taking over Yap’s duties as multiculturalism minister of state and minister of advanced education, innovation and technology until a review of a leaked government strategy is competed by her deputy minister John Dyble.

Yap says he’s only stepping down because it’s the right thing to do and he looks forward to being cleared by the review.

Meanwhile, Clark is again apologizing again for the whole ordeal.

“It was wrong, it’s right that we reach out to all of the communities in British Columbia, it’s right that we make sure they are full participants in our province in every way, but the document should never have been created,” explains Clark.

Clark says the review will highlight whether taxpayer funding was used to reach ethnic voters.

NDP MLA Carole James says it was.

“This to do list shows public dollars being used for partisan purposes, and remember this meeting included the former deputy Chief of Staff, the current Ministerial Assistant and the Office of the Premier and the Director of Outreach,” says James.

Opposition calls for independent investigator

The NDP also wants Clark to appoint a third party investigator to conduct the review ethnic votes strategy.

Leonard Krog says John Dyble has no authority to do the investigation and he’s been put in a difficult position.

“He is not statutorily charged to conduct an investigation, he is not a police officer, he doesn’t even have the status of a lawyer in a civil law suit who could demand that the other side produce documents and examine under oath the other party to the proceeding,” explains Krog.

Clark says Dyble has his own reputation as an independent public servant to preserve and will do this free of any political influence.



blame the chinese guy when a ethnic pandering memo is leaked smooth

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Old 03-05-2013, 08:36 AM   #59
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what's controversial is the use of taxpayer funds not pandering to ethnic groups
Agreed, that should be the main concern, IF true... but of course, it makes for good news for people to get upset over every little aspect of it.

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Well, the memo repeatedly refers to the NDP as some sort of 'best in class' in the area of reaching out to "the ethnics", so one would assume that they are either better at reaching out to these communities by default, or have already done this type of work.
That's kind of the point - trying to "pander" to specific groups (ethnic, gender, age, etc.) is hardly a new idea, and hardly unique to the BC Liberals. Show me a political party who DOESN'T look for ways to gain favour within these groups.

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The problem is, this whole memo was done with gov't resources and makes any action they take at a multi-cultural event to be pre-medatated and pandering-JUST that feeling you want as a so-called "ethnic" voter right before an election.
And again, aside from the "government resources" part, show me a party that DOESN'T have this as part of an election strategy. The Libs just had the misfortune of having theirs "outed" in writing, along with just enough mock outrage to get everyone going.

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The NDP right now are playing a very nice political game.

Smear opposing party without getting any dirt on ourselves? Check.
Shut the fuck up and when in doubt shut the fuck up and if necessary, have the leader say it because anyone else stands a chance of fucking up? Big check.
The problem with the "shut the fuck up" campaign is, Dix still said anything coherent about an actual platform. Really, the thing with attack ads is, I don't need your commercial to tell me what the other guy did or is doing wrong; I have the media, forums, social media, etc. to beat me over the head with that. If you want me to vote for you, tell me WHY I SHOULD VOTE FOR YOU, not why I SHOULDN'T vote for the other guy.

So far, neither party has done that.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:07 AM   #60
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Hands up, anyone who believes the NDP isn't brainstorming exactly the same kinds of ideas, and just hasn't been outed (yet)?

Notice how it was the NDP who released this "leaked" memo... how do you figure it was "leaked" to them? Probably some no-name Liberal back-bencher with an axe to grind and access to the email chain. Find some disillusioned NDP hack and I bet you get the same thing happening the other way.

The NDP are looking like they're playing nice by not running "attack ads", but going rummaging through the competitions closets for some skeletons to "let slip" is hardly any better. Politics is a dirty business, and nobody's hand are clean.

BTW, one political analyst on the radio today noted that it's not only possible, but entirely likely that CC and other "upper" staff had no idea that this memo was being circulated within a certain corner of the party, until it was "leaked". He also noted that taking the time to investigate the issue, as the party is doing, rather than just flying off the handle with knee-jerk reactions, is generally the best way to handle these things.
The NDP has been targeting specific ethnicities for years. They won't say it explicitly but they do. Every politician does this and I've got no problem with that. The issue is more that they supposedly used taxpayer money to hold events that they thought would positively influence certain ethnic groups.

That and they were dumb enough to put it in writing.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:11 AM   #61
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And again, aside from the "government resources" part,
That's the thing, you can't cast the "government resources" part aside.

That's one of the biggest reasons they're getting the big shitstorm over this.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:36 AM   #62
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The problem with the "shut the fuck up" campaign is, Dix still said anything coherent about an actual platform. Really, the thing with attack ads is, I don't need your commercial to tell me what the other guy did or is doing wrong; I have the media, forums, social media, etc. to beat me over the head with that. If you want me to vote for you, tell me WHY I SHOULD VOTE FOR YOU, not why I SHOULDN'T vote for the other guy.

So far, neither party has done that.
Absolutely true.

It's quite obvious that the NDP have a mandated process of "just waiting" I think its soon for the actual campaigning to start-someone didn't tell the liberals that

Honestly, I think it sucks. I think if you are an NDP supporter, or a Liberal, I think this election sucks.

Yes, the NDP supporters will get their party in power, so its not a sad day for them as party supporters, but it is for the people of the province.

This election will have absolutely NOTHING to do with policy. Much the same as in the 200(ish) election when the liberals decimated the NDP. That was the same effect for me..I am a liberal person, but as a resident of the province, you have to question the ability of a governing party to "stay within the lines" when you have an opposition party of 2. Thankfully I can look back and say that I think that they had a solid first term.

And honestly, I think the NDP will have a solid first term too. Probably not as many take aways for me, but change can be good.

BUT..the electorate this year is not going to give a single fuck about any of it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:45 AM   #63
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The NDP has been targeting specific ethnicities for years. They won't say it explicitly but they do. Every politician does this and I've got no problem with that. The issue is more that they supposedly used taxpayer money to hold events that they thought would positively influence certain ethnic groups.

That and they were dumb enough to put it in writing.
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That's the thing, you can't cast the "government resources" part aside.

That's one of the biggest reasons they're getting the big shitstorm over this.
Haven't read the memo itself yet (work has been nuts), and the news reports have been conflicting, so maybe someone can clarify: DID they actually use public funds for these things... or was that the SUGGESTION? Because from what I've heard, it sounds more like this whole "memo" is more like a "minutes from a brainstorming meeting" than an actual, "we should do this" or "we have done that".

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This election will have absolutely NOTHING to do with policy.
No kidding. HST referendum, anyone? People don't vote with their hearts OR their heads anymore, they vote with their asses... which is appropriate, since they're usually voting FOR asses...

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BUT..the electorate this year is not going to give a single fuck about any of it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:53 AM   #64
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Adrian Dix is sketchy as heck though...

WEEKEND EXTRA: NDP Leader Adrian Dix unveiled


For once in my adult life, I kinda wish I could vote for the NDP in good conscience.

Still not sure I can.
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:05 PM   #65
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what about that article makes you think he's sketchy? i thought it was really good
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Old 03-05-2013, 01:35 PM   #66
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I remember when Dix was first selected as NDP leader. It seemed that media outlet in BC hammered him over the memos, casinos and fast ferries-they were completely in bed with the Liberals (and still are to an extent, Pamela Martin is a Clark staffer). The publication that called Dix a "dour stalinist" was the other member of the Postmedia hedgmony, The Province. His only friends were Bill Tieleman and Vancouver Magazine.

What a refreshing change of pace-and the article even mentioned the ballooning cost of tuition.
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Old 03-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #67
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Does anyone know how elections planning usually works? Is it normally organized through official email addresses, or through personal email addresses?

A couple of the articles I remember reading mentioned that one of the reasons some people were outraged was because the memo was done outside of governmental communications channels (possibly because it was discussing use of government resources?), and so wasn't subject to FOI inquiries.

Was that a political planning issue, or a governmental resources issue?

Kind of sketch but I'm a bit confused about how these things are normally supposed to work. Do they have a party email where everything partisan goes and then have to keep their personal emails separate? Damned complicated ethics laws.
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:02 AM   #68
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Does anyone know how elections planning usually works? Is it normally organized through official email addresses, or through personal email addresses?

A couple of the articles I remember reading mentioned that one of the reasons some people were outraged was because the memo was done outside of governmental communications channels (possibly because it was discussing use of government resources?), and so wasn't subject to FOI inquiries.

Was that a political planning issue, or a governmental resources issue?

Kind of sketch but I'm a bit confused about how these things are normally supposed to work. Do they have a party email where everything partisan goes and then have to keep their personal emails separate? Damned complicated ethics laws.
Thing is, I can't say I particularly blame anyone in business (political or otherwise) using their personal email for some things. The way politics works these days, even the most innocuous thing can be "leaked" and "spun" into something negative, and thanks to the internet, anyone with a beef against the party in question can then spread such dis/mis-information as "fact", where it's further picked up and spread by anyone who's too lazy to actually do their own fact-checking.

The whole HST debacle (and particularly the "Fight HST" campaign) is a perfect example of this: Zalm, Tielman and Smyth hammer endlessly on the "Campbell Lied" drum; anyone with an anti-Campbell or anti-Liberal axe to grind picks it up and pounds away as well... pretty soon people who've never even looked into it just accept this as fact and are calling in talk shows parroting "but Campbell lied!" Meanwhile, the whole time this was going on, I repeatedly challenged anyone to point to an actual audio or video clip or transcript or any other legitimate source of information actually showing Gordon Campbell himself uttering the words, "No, we will not bring in the HST". So far... still nothing. And of course, there's no proving otherwise to the same people, because anything anyone says to refute it is met by, "Well you can't believe him, because he's a liar." Holy circular logic, Batman.

And so you get the same thing today, on ALL sides. Is it any wonder parties - particularly ruling parties - shy away from "transparency"? Any little bit of info you put out there will be twisted by SOMEONE, and it doesn't matter how much bullshit it is, any attempt to defend against it is then seen as "spin" and "damage control".
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:01 AM   #69
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The liberals fucked over BC drivers with the powers they gave to ICBC and their speeding/impound laws, which are anti-libertarian. Fuck 'em.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:52 AM   #70
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^The NDP previously gave you photo radar, and want to bring it back if they get in. Fuck them too.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:02 AM   #71
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Does anyone know how elections planning usually works? Is it normally organized through official email addresses, or through personal email addresses?

A couple of the articles I remember reading mentioned that one of the reasons some people were outraged was because the memo was done outside of governmental communications channels (possibly because it was discussing use of government resources?), and so wasn't subject to FOI inquiries.

Was that a political planning issue, or a governmental resources issue?

Kind of sketch but I'm a bit confused about how these things are normally supposed to work. Do they have a party email where everything partisan goes and then have to keep their personal emails separate? Damned complicated ethics laws.
In theory, party business should be handled thought a liberal.ca and gov't business with a .gov.bc.ca, and in theory the vast amount of gov staffers shouldn't have anything to do with the party administration until you get to minister office, and premier office people. That's just my belief on the general system.

In practice, you constantly have 30 or 40 journalists fishing with FOI requests for keywords. On top of that, you have them digging further if they get a tip.

So they dump their shit in gmail and call it a day.

And in reality, as far as I know, we have nothing to say that they have to keep it on public accounts. In the states, there was a push to have this information for archival purposes, and so its run through the public accounts and can be archived or whatever though the library of congress-not sure exactly where they take it from there, but the point is the issue has been addressed.

Transparency in gov't. Usually not. More likely, when someone campaigns on transparency, it means they are fully intending to air the dirty laundry from the previous administration, but keep their stuff close.
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Old 03-06-2013, 08:50 AM   #72
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The liberals fucked over BC drivers with the powers they gave to ICBC and their speeding/impound laws, which are anti-libertarian. Fuck 'em.
BTW, if you're going fast enough over the speed limit that your car rates impoundment, you're an asshole. Fuck you too.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:44 AM   #73
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The liberals fucked over BC drivers with the powers they gave to ICBC and their speeding/impound laws, which are anti-libertarian. Fuck 'em.
RS's resident baller chimes in with a comment about speeding when the BC Liberals, at least under Campbell, were arguably the most business friendly government the province has had in a generation.

Priorities, priorities.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:54 AM   #74
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I can't bring myself to vote for the NDP as my vote is swayed entirely by a party's economics. I will still probably vote Liberal but I'd be much more inclined to do so if they ousted Christy Clark.

I find that I lean much more to the right as I've gotten older...
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:41 PM   #75
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Bumpity bump bump. I think the most appalling thing about this is the fact that these people who are in the government and developed this plan specifically used their personal emails for these kinds of purposes in order to avoid FOI inquiries.

I really think some more digging needs to be done and some seriously harsh penalties need to be leveraged against government workers who do that. I mean, seriously, what's the point of FOI if you can just not use a government address and be like "nope, no records. Too bad, huh?"

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Dyble report: B.C. Liberals misused government resources and breached public service standards

THE B.C. LIBERAL government has released a summary of its report on an internal investigation into the draft Multicultural Strategic Outreach plan, which was leaked to the NDP and media last month.

According to a government release, “Partisan activity among some [Liberal] officials breached the public service standards of conduct and some government resources were misused."

The investigation was led by Premier Christy Clark's deputy minister, John Dyble.

The release states that the review found:

Some officials did not draw a boundary between their partisan and government roles.
Inappropriate activity occurred around the procurement of community liaison contractors.
Community liaison contractors were given work before contracts were approved and signed, resulting in payment for work done when the contract process was cancelled.
Confidential information—such as contact lists from government events—was inappropriately sent to personal email accounts.
There were two serious instances of government resources being misused.
Media have reported on a number of specific points in the report where senior members of the B.C. Liberal Party committed questionable conduct.

Those include:

John Yap, B.C. Liberal MLA for Richmond-Steveston, was aware that government officials were in the practice of using private email accounts in an attempt to avoid the public's access to information via the Freedom of Information law.

The use of personal emails for government business was widespread.

Yap’s former executive assistant, Mike Lee, wrote in an email to Yap that it was, “absolutely critical that we do not leave any evidence,” regarding the hiring of three liaisons. To which Yap responded, "Great job. Let’s now hope for the best.”

Fiera Lo, an executive assistant in government, forwarded confidential information to private email accounts.

During an 18-month period for which former government communications director Brian Bonney was paid $124,000, he may hav used as much of half his conducting partisan work for the Liberals.

Dyble's investigation was spurred by the release of an internal memo which outlined a plan to use government funds for partisan purposes and win the support of non-white voters with apologies for historical wrongs.

A number of high-level party members have parted ways with the B.C. Liberals since that email was made public. The premier’s deputy chief of staff, Kim Haakstad, resigned on March 1. And March 4, Yap, then-B.C. minister responsible for multiculturalism, removed himself from Clark’s cabinet pending the completion of Dyble's investigation.

It's now speculated that Yap will not return to cabinet. Lee will also likely have to resign.

The Dyble report includes a number of recommendations. Those include:

Consider the involvement and culpability of each of the political staff involved in the events discussed in the report and take appropriate disciplinary and corrective action.
Ensure that senior staff set expectations among political staff that all existing financial and administrative policies on procurement and supervision of contract staff be followed without exception.
Give direction particularly to political and communications staff to ensure they understand their obligations with respect to the use of government email and the appropriate use of personal computers for government purposes, as outlined in Government Core Policy.
Direct Legal Services Branch to secure any government records in the possession of former employees named in this report and seek an undertaking these records have not been used for inappropriate purposes.
Improve the standards of conduct for political staff.
Direct the Comptroller General to determine if any recovery of expenditure or payment is necessary.
Premier Christy Clark is expected to speak on the Dyble investigation's findings today.
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