REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-09-2013, 12:58 AM   #551
I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
 
meowjinboo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 552
Thanked 269 Times in 121 Posts
Dogecoin

Already mining.
Advertisement
meowjinboo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 02:15 AM   #552
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Johnson View Post
you make it sound like bitcoin actually has a future, which is a pretty dangerous assumption. even if bitcoin can stay as a online "currency" it won't be anything like what it is today after governments catches on and start writing out regulations. i doubt CRA and IRS will let any transaction goes through without getting their cut in it.

putting my investor hat on, i would say definitely fad this bitcoin move. the 4 most dangerous words in investing are: This time is different. and i've seen plenty of that coming out of bitcoin bull.
It's not so much an assumption as it is considering the best case scenario. If I were to assume it would fail, I would have sold at $1000 or whatever. I'm not in it to make a quick buck, I am in it because I believe in the system, and it is part of several things that are going to change in our lifetime (hopefully)
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-09-2013, 12:49 PM   #553
My homepage has been set to RS
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Deutschland
Posts: 2,402
Thanked 900 Times in 387 Posts
QRK up to $0.25 over the last 24 hours.
__________________
FOR SALE: 14'' MR2 MK1 wheels with 90% rubber $130, FD RX7 Transmission $200, Hitch Mount Snowboard/Ski rack w/ THULE clamps, locks $200. PM me for details!

If this is still in my sig, it's still avail.
falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 01:00 PM   #554
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Hehe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YVR/TPE
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 1,385 Times in 576 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mos_skeeto View Post
- Untraceable
- Digital
- Safe
- Low transfer fees
Oh really? Google "bitcoin heists" and get back to me on safety.

The thief basically stole a hundred millions worth of BTC sitting in front of his/her PC in PJs.

Do you know what it would take to heist 100 million dollar worth of cash or any physical good?

The truth is, any benefit of BTC can be circumvented given enough time and resource. Why? Because it's digital. It might take years before someone comes up with ways, but given the non-destructive nature of BTC transactions and presence, there will be a way to do it.
__________________
Nothing for now
Hehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 02:08 PM   #555
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
mos_skeeto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: 604
Posts: 2,997
Thanked 584 Times in 178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
Oh really? Google "bitcoin heists" and get back to me on safety.

The thief basically stole a hundred millions worth of BTC sitting in front of his/her PC in PJs.

Do you know what it would take to heist 100 million dollar worth of cash or any physical good?

The truth is, any benefit of BTC can be circumvented given enough time and resource. Why? Because it's digital. It might take years before someone comes up with ways, but given the non-destructive nature of BTC transactions and presence, there will be a way to do it.
Think of Bitcoin as a big bank vault.

This bank vault is safe meaning as of right now there's no way you can steal from it. This might change in the future but as of right now it's solid. You argue that anything digital can be hacked. I beg to differ. If you hacked bitcoin, you would have to convince a large population of computers around the world to let your transaction go though.

When you use an online wallet or an exchange site to transfer bitcoins, you're using a third party to interact with bitcoin. This is a very common security weakness of bitcoin.

I can print out my bitcoin information on a piece of paper and store it under my bed. They are untouchable digitally and unless I was stupid enough to give out that code... it's safe. If you break into my house and steal my piece of paper you've hacked my bitcoins. But you did it via breaking and entering... not because bitcoin is unsafe

Last edited by mos_skeeto; 12-09-2013 at 02:21 PM.
mos_skeeto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 03:09 PM   #556
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Hehe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YVR/TPE
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 1,385 Times in 576 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mos_skeeto View Post
This is a very common security weakness of bitcoin.e
The problem is that there is really no other way to "spend" BTC. One could print all the BTC in the world but whoever getting it would have to go online to verify it. There is no way around it.

All BTC's benefits are the result of the way BTC is produced and transferred. Unfortunately, with those benefits, one also inherits all the associate risks with them. They are no safer than your Paypal password or your debit's PIN. But you could take choose whether or not to deposit money into debit/PP. With BTC, it's not an option, but a requirement.
__________________
Nothing for now
Hehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 03:35 PM   #557
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
Oh really? Google "bitcoin heists" and get back to me on safety.

The thief basically stole a hundred millions worth of BTC sitting in front of his/her PC in PJs.

Do you know what it would take to heist 100 million dollar worth of cash or any physical good?

The truth is, any benefit of BTC can be circumvented given enough time and resource. Why? Because it's digital. It might take years before someone comes up with ways, but given the non-destructive nature of BTC transactions and presence, there will be a way to do it.
I'd rather be jacked by some kid in his PJ's than someone pull a knife on me meeting to buy something on Craigslist... That sounds safer to me at least

Plus those 'heists' are nothing new. People have been stealing passwords as long as passwords have existed. If you aren't careful with it, you're going to lose it. If you are careful with it, nobody can touch your shit.

And then you can look at your address if you want, and see exactly where the money goes. And if you can investigate thoroughly enough, you may be able to trace it.

Also when people say safe, they mean safe from banks and companies like Paypal. They can (and have) blocked people from accessing their funds for various reasons (even the government can make them do this). Banks put limits on how much you can withdraw each day, will question you when depositing, etc. Even formerly 'free' banks in Hong Kong have started placing mandated limits on accounts. For instance, starting this year you have to apply for an allowance to withdraw overseas with your ATM card. You have to do this before you leave, otherwise your withdraw limit is really small.

When you put your money in a bank, you are giving it to some corporation that is who knows how corrupt, working with terrorists (HSBC) and the government, often without your consent.

Nobody can touch your bitcoin wallet EVER, unless you let them.
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 03:41 PM   #558
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
mos_skeeto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: 604
Posts: 2,997
Thanked 584 Times in 178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
The problem is that there is really no other way to "spend" BTC. One could print all the BTC in the world but whoever getting it would have to go online to verify it. There is no way around it.

All BTC's benefits are the result of the way BTC is produced and transferred. Unfortunately, with those benefits, one also inherits all the associate risks with them. They are no safer than your Paypal password or your debit's PIN. But you could take choose whether or not to deposit money into debit/PP. With BTC, it's not an option, but a requirement.
Back to my bank vault example... my money is in there. It's safe.

Your comment "The only thing BTC has is hype" I quoted and disagreed with. Bitcoins is currently a good way to store and keep your money and have it away from banks and government. This is a huge thing it has going on. Remember that news story of some little country in Europe considering taking money out of citizen's accounts. That event gave bitcoin a lot of positive press.

You spun my 'safe' comment into examples of people losing massive amounts of money. It's true. If I use a sketchy wallet, or use a shitty password, or give out private information I'll probably be hacked.
mos_skeeto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2013, 06:26 PM   #559
Say! Say! Say!
 
Razor Ramon HG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Japan
Posts: 13,427
Thanked 2,019 Times in 770 Posts
Anyone deciding to make a rig still? I have a CPU and motherboard combo for sale, thanks.
__________________
Quote:
Owner of Vansterdam's 420th thanks. OH YEAUHHH.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 89blkcivic View Post
Did I tell you guys black is my favourite colour? My Ridgeline is black. My Honda Fit is black. Wish my dick was black........ LOL.
Razor Ramon HG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 08:48 PM   #560
I don't like cheese but I love milk!
 
Ferra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Van
Posts: 1,914
Thanked 835 Times in 219 Posts
can someone enlighten me why something that has absolutely no intrinsic value be worth so much?
it seems like one of those thing whose's value is entirely dependent on people's confidence....once the confidence start fading, the entire system will collapse on itself
Ferra is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-10-2013, 08:49 PM   #561
I don't like cheese but I love milk!
 
Ferra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Van
Posts: 1,914
Thanked 835 Times in 219 Posts
also...who wanna bet the government doesn't like competition when it comes to with its own currency...
i mean..they are the ones with the guns after all...
Ferra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 08:57 PM   #562
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferra View Post
can someone enlighten me why something that has absolutely no intrinsic value be worth so much?
it seems like one of those thing whose's value is entirely dependent on people's confidence....once the confidence start fading, the entire system will collapse on itself
What's the intrinsic value of any currency?

Burn it for heat? Except you can't even do that now with the plastic bills

It's the reason why a lot of people horde gold.. because that's the one thing they think they'll be able to fall back on if currencies crash. Thing is, what's the intrinsic value of gold? That it looks pretty? You can make nice dental accessories with it? It is a good conductor, so there's that...

The thing is, people want gold because they always wanted gold. Entire empires were built on it, and entire civilizations conquered for it. Then came silver of course.. not much more value as gold, but looks pretty so people wanted it (until Spain mined so much of it that it lost most of its value).

People are willing to trade items for gold, silver, canadian dollars, or bitcoin. That's the value of each thing.
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-10-2013, 09:24 PM   #563
I don't like cheese but I love milk!
 
Ferra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Van
Posts: 1,914
Thanked 835 Times in 219 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
What's the intrinsic value of any currency?

Burn it for heat? Except you can't even do that now with the plastic bills
our currency is backed by the government...(in the past we had the gold standard so you can go to the government and exchange it for gold...that basically gives it a guarantee intrinsic value.)

obviously we don't have the gold standard anymore...but our economy and government is a lot more stable and established now...the currency is still guarantee by the government in the sense that the government stipulates its currency is a legal tender within its border...and they can enforce it with their rules and power.
basically, the government's power and worthiness give the currency its intrinsic value
Ferra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-10-2013, 09:45 PM   #564
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferra View Post
our currency is backed by the government...(in the past we had the gold standard so you can go to the government and exchange it for gold...that basically gives it a guarantee intrinsic value.)

obviously we don't have the gold standard anymore...but our economy and government is a lot more stable and established now...the currency is still guarantee by the government in the sense that the government stipulates its currency is a legal tender within its border...and they can enforce it with their rules and power.
basically, the government's power and worthiness give the currency its intrinsic value
That's great but you might not necessarily want to keep all your money in there. For us it's fine, Canada is pretty rich and pretty stable. But ask anyone in a country using the Euro how much 'intrinsic value' their currency has that is 'backed by the government'.
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-11-2013, 12:30 PM   #565
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Richmond
Posts: 846
Thanked 404 Times in 178 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
Thing is, what's the intrinsic value of gold? That it looks pretty? You can make nice dental accessories with it? It is a good conductor, so there's that...

The thing is, people want gold because they always wanted gold. Entire empires were built on it, and entire civilizations conquered for it. Then came silver of course.. not much more value as gold, but looks pretty so people wanted it (until Spain mined so much of it that it lost most of its value).
On the topic of gold, here's a neat article explaining why gold emerged as a currency vice other elements.

BBC News - Why do we value gold?
BillyBishop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 04:40 PM   #566
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyBishop View Post
On the topic of gold, here's a neat article explaining why gold emerged as a currency vice other elements.

BBC News - Why do we value gold?
Relevant quote in that article

"First off, [currency] doesn't have to have any intrinsic value. [It] only has value because we, as a society, decide that it does."

People traded gold because it was relatively hard to get, but lasted long, and was convenient to trade once smelted into coins. Bitcoin is relatively hard to get, lasts forever, and the 'coins' are digital so easy to trade.

Gold is $1200 an ounce because, hey, it's gold. We've always valued gold. If one of the main government backed economies collapse, I'll be able to sell my gold for another... Or if shit really hits the fan, maybe smelt my own coins and trade that directly? (people who own a lot of gold, you do have access to it right? if the economy collapses, you'll be able to go get it and hold it yourself right?)

Bitcoin is $800-1000 a coin because people think it may be really important to our future. And the speculators of course...

I stopped reading that article after the author used the word "guesstimated" though
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 07:58 PM   #567
My homepage has been set to RS
 
trancehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,362
Thanked 742 Times in 363 Posts
SecondMarket CEO: Wall Street Will Put 'Hundreds of Millions' Into Bitcoin | Entrepreneur.com


--what do you guys think?

Spoiler!
__________________
Quote:

[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
trancehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 09:27 PM   #568
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Hehe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YVR/TPE
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 1,385 Times in 576 Posts
I'm not buying the argument.

BTC has nothing fundamental that create value for it. One can argue all he wants, but BTC is what it is... a bunch of numbers that takes a lot of processing power to come up with.

The only thing (for now) is that the government has not recognize it as such and thus there is no real/legal way to tax you should you choose to keep your holdings in BTC.

Nevertheless, the more mainstream BTC becomes, the more gov. control would be laid on top of it; making the original intention pointless.

Yes, with BTC design, one could argue to never claim anything on their taxes... but if one ever tries to convert BTC (however its value) into something gov. has control on, you can bet they will want a cut from it.
__________________
Nothing for now
Hehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 09:34 PM   #569
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
I'm not buying the argument.

gold has nothing fundamental that create value for it. One can argue all he wants, but gold is what it is... a bunch of metal that takes a lot of mining equipment to come up with.

The only thing (for now) is that the government has not recognize it as such and thus there is no real/legal way to tax you should you choose to keep your holdings in gold.

Nevertheless, the more mainstream gold becomes, the more gov. control would be laid on top of it; making the original intention pointless.

Yes, with gold design, one could argue to never claim anything on their taxes... but if one ever tries to convert gold (however its value) into something gov. has control on, you can bet they will want a cut from it.
Good points

However nobody has said that the profit made from selling gold (or bitcoin) for dollars shouldn't be taxed. Not sure who you are arguing with there
SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 12-11-2013, 09:35 PM   #570
My homepage has been set to RS
 
trancehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,362
Thanked 742 Times in 363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
I'm not buying the argument.

BTC has nothing fundamental that create value for it. One can argue all he wants, but BTC is what it is... a bunch of numbers that takes a lot of processing power to come up with.

The only thing (for now) is that the government has not recognize it as such and thus there is no real/legal way to tax you should you choose to keep your holdings in BTC.

Nevertheless, the more mainstream BTC becomes, the more gov. control would be laid on top of it; making the original intention pointless.

Yes, with BTC design, one could argue to never claim anything on their taxes... but if one ever tries to convert BTC (however its value) into something gov. has control on, you can bet they will want a cut from it.
again, look up the previous (probably up a couple posts) arguments on intrinsic value. all currencies and gold have none of it. it is all government backed.
__________________
Quote:

[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 i find that at vietnamese place they cut ur hair like they cut grass
[23-07, 02:03] shawn79 do u go to vietnamese places for haircuts
trancehead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 09:48 PM   #571
Rs has made me the woman i am today!
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Coquitlam
Posts: 4,479
Thanked 373 Times in 144 Posts
I was at one of the local computer store today, over heard one customer grabbing 6 x 270X.... and asking when 5 more sets will come in, so 36 in total....
ImportPsycho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 10:00 PM   #572
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Hehe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YVR/TPE
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 1,385 Times in 576 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp View Post
Good points

However nobody has said that the profit made from selling gold (or bitcoin) for dollars shouldn't be taxed. Not sure who you are arguing with there
Really want to compare gold (physical good) vs BTC (a bunch of numbers) ?

Gold has many industrial applications along with jewelry industry. It means that even when people stop valuing gold as a monetary instrument, it can still be used to do a lot of stuff and hence derives value.

What is BTC good for besides some sort of monetary instrument? Nothing.
__________________
Nothing for now
Hehe is offline   Reply With Quote
This post FAILED by:
Old 12-11-2013, 10:05 PM   #573
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Hehe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YVR/TPE
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 1,385 Times in 576 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by trancehead View Post
again, look up the previous (probably up a couple posts) arguments on intrinsic value. all currencies and gold have none of it. it is all government backed.
Exactly... but currencies are at least government backed.

When someone come up with fake bills, gov. would take care of it. Let's say someday someone manages to crack BTC somehow, what would happen? BTC becomes a bunch of numbers and that's it.
__________________
Nothing for now
Hehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 10:17 PM   #574
Hacked RS to become a mod
 
SkinnyPupp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Sunny Hong Kong
Posts: 42,017
Thanked 17,634 Times in 5,341 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
Really want to compare gold (physical good) vs BTC (a bunch of numbers) ?
If you think physical goods inherently have more value than digital goods, you have been living under a rock for the last 5-10 years. I'll give you the benefit of doubt but if you can't even grasp this part, I don't see much reason to continue explaining... However it may help others, so....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
Gold has many industrial applications along with jewelry industry. It means that even when people stop valuing gold as a monetary instrument, it can still be used to do a lot of stuff and hence derives value.
Yes, gold has use in industry, although I wouldn't include jewelry as this industry - jewelry is just flaunting wealth - ie taking your money, putting it in gold, then showing off that money. That gold is still worth $1200 an ounce, whether it is a nice chain, ring, etc. The decoration and designing part is just an extra service people offer. More importantly, gold is used in electronics, dental work, etc. However it's the trade value that keeps the number high. If gold ever lost its value as a place to keep money, it would be a 100% industrial product and the price would plummet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
What is BTC good for besides some sort of monetary instrument? Nothing.
It can be used a crypto-storage algorithm as well as a currency. I would recommend watching this video I have posted in the past, as it will help you understand it better. I have queued up the part where he talks about other applications of bitcoin

SkinnyPupp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2013, 12:31 AM   #575
$_$
I subscribe to Revscene
 
$_$'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Space
Posts: 1,919
Thanked 560 Times in 172 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
Really want to compare gold (physical good) vs BTC (a bunch of numbers) ?

Gold has many industrial applications along with jewelry industry. It means that even when people stop valuing gold as a monetary instrument, it can still be used to do a lot of stuff and hence derives value.

What is BTC good for besides some sort of monetary instrument? Nothing.
Argh... I don't even know where to start with this. Let's just say the ex-richest guy on Earth, Bill Gates (who's only not the richest guy anymore because of his philanthropy) derives his wealth from "a bunch of numbers".

Seriously though, some people just can't even wrap their head around the fact that EVERYTHING only has value because people give it value. That goes for anything in the world, physical and not physical. Only ~10% of all of the world's "money" is real, the rest is all virtual, part of computer systems. Millionaires are made daily who write software or do things like making YouTube videos. Why is it so hard to believe that a virtual currency like Bitcoins right now has a value over your narrow minded expectations? While being backed by one government is a great to value currency, what do you have against a currency which derives it's value from people worldwide? It may not be Bitcoins... It may not be litecoins. But it's movements like this that helps to spearhead the movement of true globalization and shaping a better global economy.
Posted via RS Mobile
$_$ is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net