Track Racing?

[freakshow]

Originally Posted by FiveOneOh

Helmet:
For most auto racing DOT is not good enough. You will need a SNELL approved helmet.

For many clubs, you'll also need a SNELL SA rated helmet, not M rated. (Auto-X is fine with M, afaik)

[falcon]

No, M helmets are fine for hpdr
Posted via RS Mobile

[Dinan3]

I know you've mentioned that you're not a fan of AutoX, but if you haven't done any type of driving events before, you should go to a couple of AutoX events to learn the limits of your car before you take it to a the Track where you don't have much room for any mistakes.

[kunoman1]

I remember there used to be some sort of group rate, like there was a RS group going to a track class. Is that/was that a thing?

[albertcua]

I did one autocross event in Bremerton, WA. And I just didn't really enjoy myself.
I prefer a good mixture of different types of turns, and the one I went to seemed to have mostly switchbacks with the odd longer curve.

I understand it's more dangerous, however, if taken "with care" don't think it should be that bad? Correct me if I'm wrong.

In terms of helmet, if there are the 3 different "specs", it would be safer to go with a SNELL approved helmet, as the helmet would be good for any type of club.

If you're doing mission chances are your OEM Civic brake pads or street compound pads aren't enough unless you're pretty slow

When you say not enough, you mean in terms of brake fade? My car isn't fast at all, since it is a 1.9L Diesel, but I don't feel like I need to go fast to have fun. I'm more about technique and satisfaction in getting a corner right.

[albertcua]

Originally Posted by kunoman1

I remember there used to be some sort of group rate, like there was a RS group going to a track class. Is that/was that a thing?

IF there is that would be awesome!

[Traum]

To the OP,

If you are interested, Pacific Raceway is having its final winter track day this coming Sunday (March 17). As long as your car is track-worthy, you just need to show up in the morning by 8:30am at the absolute latest, with USD$195 in hand, and that'll get you started. I think they'll even lend you one of their loaner helmets.

http://www.pacificraceways.com/RoadR...eSchedule.aspx

Mind you, PR is not exactly a beginner's track -- the track is unforgiving, and should you make any careless mistake, there is a good chance your car is gonna get banged up to the point where you wouldn't be able to drive it back home.

Even if you do not like autox, I'd still strongly recommend you to take it up at least a year. Autox is considered a "low speed" motorsport, and I'd dare say there is really no better playground to learn the basics of car control. And the best thing is, when you are learning, you are going to make mistakes, but the "consequences" of those mistakes at the autox is generally minimal. When you get to keep playing at the limits, you'll learn so much faster than you would otherwise.

VCMC has announced their 1st Velocity Driving School for this year:

http://www.vcmc.ca/forum/showthread....pril-20th-2013

and this is one of the best place you could learn a few things quickly. You'll have gobs of seat time, and some highly qualified instructors help you find out what car control is all about.

Additionally, both UBCSCC and VCMC have announced their 2013 track day programmes:

UBC Sports Car Club • View topic - UBCSCC Track Day Program 2013
VCMC Track Day Schedule for 2013

These track day events are held at Mission, and both clubs work hard to find instructors for all novice drivers. I am not as familiar with UBCSCC's track day events, but with VCMC, novice drivers are usually matched up on a 1:1 basis with their instructors. The instructor will ride along in your car until you're signed off to drive solo on the track.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by albertcua

When you say not enough, you mean in terms of brake fade? My car isn't fast at all, since it is a 1.9L Diesel, but I don't feel like I need to go fast to have fun. I'm more about technique and satisfaction in getting a corner right.

Mission is undoubtedly very hard on brakes, so fresh fluids (at least DOT 5.1, if not something better) and sports pads are very much preferred over your standard OEM stuff. One way to mitigate the high stress against your braking system is to simply alternate between your hot laps and your easy laps -- this is precisely what I do myself when I'm out at Mission. I start off with an easy lap or two to get my brain and my car warmed up. And then I go for a few hot laps (typically no more than 3), and then I back off for a few laps, and I just keep alternating between the 2. Not only will your car last much longer during each session, your own endurance will also be much better preserved, meaning you can last the entire day.

The thing to keep in mind at a track day is -- it is part driver training, part entertainment / recreation. At any track day that is reasonably well-managed, you will generally get 2+ hours worth of seat time in 15 to 30 min chunks. It may not sound like much, but you will work up a sweat, and you will probably tire yourself out before the day wraps up. So if you can make yourself (and your car) last longer, you'll be able to get the most out of your track day.

(Sorry for my rambling, and I hope I'll at least see some of you at Mission this year.)

[ilvtofu]

Originally Posted by Dinan3

I know you've mentioned that you're not a fan of AutoX, but if you haven't done any type of driving events before, you should go to a couple of AutoX events to learn the limits of your car before you take it to a the Track where you don't have much room for any mistakes.

He is a driving god

Originally Posted by Traum

To the OP,

If you are interested, Pacific Raceway is having its final winter track day this coming Sunday (March 17). As long as your car is track-worthy, you just need to show up in the morning by 8:30am at the absolute latest, with USD$195 in hand, and that'll get you started. I think they'll even lend you one of their loaner helmets.

Pacific Raceways ~ Seattle's NHRA approved racecourse ~ Road Course Schedule

Mind you, PR is not exactly a beginner's track -- the track is unforgiving, and should you make any careless mistake, there is a good chance your car is gonna get banged up to the point where you wouldn't be able to drive it back home.

Even if you do not like autox, I'd still strongly recommend you to take it up at least a year. Autox is considered a "low speed" motorsport, and I'd dare say there is really no better playground to learn the basics of car control. And the best thing is, when you are learning, you are going to make mistakes, but the "consequences" of those mistakes at the autox is generally minimal. When you get to keep playing at the limits, you'll learn so much faster than you would otherwise.

I know someone who flipped his Z4 M coupe @ PR, definitely unforgiving. In a jetta TDI you will have terminal understeer and an overconfident driver that is too hot can run off the high speed turns. With a front heavy car like that with small-ish brakes you really gotta worry about brake fade too, nothing like stepping on the brakes and nothing happening to make you shit a brick.

I'm personally not THAT into autox either with the classing etc. but it is a solid indicator of your proficiency and you can see the difference on the track even in novice groups between those who have never autox'ed/done it once or twice vs the seasoned autoxer.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by albertcua

When you say not enough, you mean in terms of brake fade? My car isn't fast at all, since it is a 1.9L Diesel, but I don't feel like I need to go fast to have fun. I'm more about technique and satisfaction in getting a corner right.

Stock brakes on any car, regardless of it's power will be gone after 4-5 laps of hard driving at Mission. Even with good pads you will still boil the fluid and they won't be lasting much longer. I had to build a big brake kit with Wilwoods to be able to stop consistantley at Mission.

[death_blossom]

Originally Posted by mac25

thank you Rich Sandor, death_blossom, white rocket, slowguy, ilvtofu and freakshow!

i'm considering joining ubc scc after visiting their page. looks like $25 membership for a year plus $25-$55 per event. this is within my price range considering with my schedule i may not be able to attend any events.

UBCSCC? but didn't you just say autocross wasn't your thing? UBCSCC does mostly autocross, with a few track day events sprinkled in. the track days are 200bux or more from what I remember.

[kunoman1]

Originally Posted by ilvtofu

He is a driving god



I know someone who flipped his Z4 M coupe @ PR, definitely unforgiving. In a jetta TDI you will have terminal understeer and an overconfident driver that is too hot can run off the high speed turns. With a front heavy car like that with small-ish brakes you really gotta worry about brake fade too, nothing like stepping on the brakes and nothing happening to make you shit a brick.

My god you flipped your z4 M?!? What did you do?

[Rich Sandor]

Falcon: dont say M rated helmets are fine for hpde, because there are clubs that REQUIRE SA rated helmets. If you dont ride bikes and want a helmet just for DE events: get an SA - that will be good for any driving event you may sign up for.

[spoonek4]

I am agreed with some of you guys about starting with autocrossing before going to driver's education events or lapping days at a road course.

I've been participating in UBCSCC & VCMC's event back in 2003-05ish. I am no where competitive myself compare with some other very talented local guys out there. And my car was prepped to the point that i have no advantage on PAX time at ALL(coilovers, LSD & bucket seat etc). I took VCMC's velocity school twice myself and I found that course. The practice plus the guidance by other competitive guys out there no matter on driving & car setup did help me quite a bit. Really gives u an idea on what kinda mods will help you go faster....

I've been trying to go lapping at Pacific Raceways at least once a year since 2005 or so. Did Mission once myself. It's technical, but not as technical & fun compare with Pacific.

Talk about driving a slow car. I highly doubt that your Jetta is slower than my 07' Honda Fit lol! My left arm is out pointing people by at Pacific ALL the times.

[Matsuda]

Originally Posted by albertcua

I did one autocross event in Bremerton, WA. And I just didn't really enjoy myself.
I prefer a good mixture of different types of turns, and the one I went to seemed to have mostly switchbacks with the odd longer curve.

I think you should give the local clubs a chance for autox. The courses designed can be quite technical and there are a good variety of slaloms/turns/etc.

Here was the course design from ubcscc from the last event.

[Rich Sandor]

Originally Posted by falcon

Stock brakes on any car, regardless of it's power will be gone after 4-5 laps of hard driving at Mission. Even with good pads you will still boil the fluid and they won't be lasting much longer. I had to build a big brake kit with Wilwoods to be able to stop consistantley at Mission.

I agree that Mission can be hard on brakes, but I totally disagree that one NEEDS to upgrade their stock brakes to run decent laps at Mission.

Usually, ensuring you have fresh, high performance brake fluid, like motul rbf or similar, is enough to run good laps at Mission all day without boiling.

Ive upgraded to 993tt porsche "big reds" for 12 and 24hr endurance races. The stock sized rotors and calipers have done me fine for almost a decade of trackdays. The only time i ever boiled brakes was when i had old, dirty, ate blue fluid at my first ever trackday, and the other was when my car was dual driven for six hours nonstop at ORP in 40deg celsius heat.

[ilvtofu]

^ I agree that stock calipers/rotors will be enough especially for a novice driver, but don't forget brake pads, just cause you have a decent thickness doesn't mean those will be track ready.
Some OEM pads might be alright but I've managed to fade stock MK6 GTI Brakes at autox, like pedal to the floor fade, so I doubt OP's TDI will be any better. VW stock brakes are mushy as heck, check out the MOT of different pads and see what will work for you, there aren't really any true dual purpose (street/track) pads, especially for a nose heavy car like that with small-ish brakes. Likely you'll have to switch pads either the night before or at the track if you want to dual purpose your car.

[albertcua]

Thanks guys for all the info, I definitely DO NOT want to be bashing my car up against a wall.

Seems like it would be a great idea to start small, and that autoX course doesn't seem half as bad.
Also, I don't have the funding currently to be upgrading my brakes, so I guess I shall start with autoX.

For autoX my stock brakes should be fine right? And would the general consensus be that ubcscc would be a great place to get involved?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Traum]

Stock brakes are absolutely fine for autox. Especially when you are first starting, it is all about driving skills.

As far as starting off is concerned, both UBCSCC and VCMC are great places to be. UBCSCC has a slightly more laid back attitude, while VCMC offers a slightly more competitive atmosphere. But at the end of the day, a good number of people attend events from both clubs, and both groups go out of their way to help novice drivers learn the ropes.

But by far the biggest bang for your buck would be the driver training programs VCMC and UBCSCC offers. In fact, if I can only do 1 event the whole year, Velocity driving school or Autox 101 would be the one to do. As I mentioned in my post above, VCMC's Velocity driver training is scheduled for Sat, April 20, and registration always fills up fast. UBCSCC will almost certainly offer their Autox 101 program some time this year.

So I would recommend you to join whichever group and whichever events that work with your schedule. Naturally, the best option is to join both and get as many events under you belt as you can. Especially when you are first starting off, there is really no replacement for seat time.

Hope to see you on the pad soon!

[albertcua]

Thanks! I will be going out of town in April, so I presumably would be starting sometime in June! Hope to see you guys out there

/end thread
Posted via RS Mobile

[falcon]

Originally Posted by death_blossom

UBCSCC? but didn't you just say autocross wasn't your thing? UBCSCC does mostly autocross, with a few track day events sprinkled in. the track days are 200bux or more from what I remember.

UBCSCC has the most AutoX events per year than any local club and hold 3 track days per summer. The same or more than VCMC, and UBCSCC runs some top shelf events.

"from what I remember" always nice to just throw information out there because you "think" you remembered it correctly.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

Falcon: dont say M rated helmets are fine for hpde, because there are clubs that REQUIRE SA rated helmets. If you dont ride bikes and want a helmet just for DE events: get an SA - that will be good for any driving event you may sign up for.

News to me. Any and all track days I've ever gone to my "M" helmet was sufficient. If things have since changed, then oops. I was going on my experience.

[falcon]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

I agree that Mission can be hard on brakes, but I totally disagree that one NEEDS to upgrade their stock brakes to run decent laps at Mission.

Show me where I said everyone NEEDS to upgrade their brakes? I said I had to to run consistent laps.

[dvst8]

Thanks for info guys. Think I'll be trying VCMC this season.

[trollguy]

Originally Posted by falcon

"from what I remember" always nice to just throw information out there because you "think" you remembered it correctly.

wtf? guy is trying to be helpful and he was pretty damn accurate. UBCSCC is mostly autox with a few track days sprinkled in.

Per UBCSCC's site, there are 3 track days @ mission at $225 a day.