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Old 04-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #26
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:02 PM   #27
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Though I don't exactly agree with RBC's decision, they are there to protect their shareholders' interest. If you owned RBC shares and found out they were paying you less dividends and wasting money overpaying Canadian workers for something an Indian can do for half the cost, you wouldn't be chirping the same tune. Also, there is no onus on the individual to save for retirement? How do you expect to retire if you don't have savings in your late 50s to 60s?
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:22 PM   #28
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I find the article a bit self serving, the outsourcing company has been setup since 2006. If the people working at RBC can't read the writing on the wall back then, they aren't really that bright.

I think we are missing the part that usually the smartest of the RBCers get hired by ingate (at few hundred $ / hour) as consultants to supervise the transition and what's left are usually the lifers who are there 9-5 for coffee and keeping the office warm.

There are 2 sides to every story.

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Old 04-07-2013, 02:34 PM   #29
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Make sure to tweet them when you cancel your accounts. That way they will know the reason why and will have greater media exposure.
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Old 04-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #30
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I have now removed a post which tinged on racism. This is this thread's friendly warning. Disagreeing with corporate policy is different than commenting on race, nationality, or creed.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:12 PM   #31
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RBC denies it's replacing Canadian staff with foreign workers | Canada | News | Toronto Sun


Denial.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:13 PM   #32
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lol...On banks. I deal with BMO.

My first account was opened when I was 12. Then checking at 19. Then I go in to open a business account....

"well, there will be a 5 business day hold on all deposits for a length of time"

They explain that its a new account and new accounts all get this treatment. So I tell them, "new account, yes. Old me. I've been here since I was 12. Isn't this what we're supposed to do? Life changes, and we step up into different accounts and such?"

"Yeah, I see, you've been here a long time. And?"

I was so mad. Thankfully, I was doing regular work for a client and he worked with me on giving me smaller checks more frequently so I could get through the hold period.

Then, as I wasn't working in downtown as much, I switched it to a different branch. Went though everything, had all the files duplicated and such.

"so, that will be a 5 day hold"

Like hell it will. I went to my branch downtown, and they loaded my computer file with explicit instructions of hold free banking.

I go in again, and I get, "oh. That will be a 5 day hold."

"Um, you are going to need to bring your manager over. I'm about to make a scene."

She's a cow, for one. I have her scroll through the file, and the look on her face was priceless.

"yes. We'll deposit that for you immediately"

"I thought you would. I'd also like to never have this conversation again. Make that happen"

Everyone at that branch knows me now!

I do keep meaning to switch out to a credit union. They are better, but not great. We deal with Vancity for some work deposits, and I like it, but I'm not in love with it. There are a couple tellers that love to hassle me over checks...I finally told one the other day that she's depositing it. Yeah, I'll risk it being returned.

I must admit, I am tired of getting letters from BMO telling me this fee is increasing, and this service is being eliminated and so on. And I found it really weird that on my business account, I have to specify it as primary cash, or primary check, and if you deposit more than allowed of the opposite, I get charged. Like, I'm supposed to know what my random clients wish to pay with?
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:36 PM   #33
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This isn't the only company doing this. In the airline sector Sunwing airlines has been hiring German pilots for years. I believe AirTransat just announced they will be doing something similar. Their excuse is they can't find qualified personnel. That is just BS, they just aren't prepared to pay for them.
Except pilots in Germany make bank. Post Sec school in Germany is free, except for pilots. Reflecting that is the wages they can make if they fly in Germany. Also, the JAR regulations (FAA for Europe) lic. does not convert over with much ease. So I doubt your statement is accurate at all.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:36 PM   #34
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Though I don't exactly agree with RBC's decision, they are there to protect their shareholders' interest. If you owned RBC shares and found out they were paying you less dividends and wasting money overpaying Canadian workers for something an Indian can do for half the cost, you wouldn't be chirping the same tune. Also, there is no onus on the individual to save for retirement? How do you expect to retire if you don't have savings in your late 50s to 60s?
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The fact that all businesses are there to protect their shareholders' interest...I get that. I do. I mean, the people who own the business have got to make money for the business to be successful, right?

But the idea of shareholders above all else is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. "Sure, we'll put more money into the hands of people who are more likely to reinvest it or hold it back rather than spend it so that we can protect the people who have given us money and remove more money from the active spending economy resulting in fewer purchases and jobs by the masses which means the government will have to shell out more in benefits to the people who no longer have money by the pull of it all to the top".

I mean, obviously, this is an oversimplification. But it's kind of ridiculous when you look at companies that have cash reserves now larger than ever before in history, and then turning around and saying that the state of the economy prevents them from investing in more employees, locations, and stores. "Well, we can't give any money to people until we get any back. But since nobody's got money to give us that means there's no way we can give anyone more money."
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:47 PM   #35
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The fact that all businesses are there to protect their shareholders' interest...I get that. I do. I mean, the people who own the business have got to make money for the business to be successful, right?

But the idea of shareholders above all else is kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face. "Sure, we'll put more money into the hands of people who are more likely to reinvest it or hold it back rather than spend it so that we can protect the people who have given us money and remove more money from the active spending economy resulting in fewer purchases and jobs by the masses which means the government will have to shell out more in benefits to the people who no longer have money by the pull of it all to the top".

I mean, obviously, this is an oversimplification. But it's kind of ridiculous when you look at companies that have cash reserves now larger than ever before in history, and then turning around and saying that the state of the economy prevents them from investing in more employees, locations, and stores. "Well, we can't give any money to people until we get any back. But since nobody's got money to give us that means there's no way we can give anyone more money."
I get what you're saying, but corporations are not there to do charity work. They are there to benefit their shareholders and their shareholders only. The extra wages they pay out do not necessarily go back to them (eg. Every dollar paid out may only recoup three cents, whereas every dollar not paid out is a total dollar saved). They don't answer to the Canadian people or to the government. The government is responsible for ensuring that the best interests of its people are preserved without severely hindering the free market.
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Old 04-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #36
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Beyond sad and what makes it worse is this is how racism starts....
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:20 PM   #37
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Wanna know why grocery stores/retail outlets have credit cards? They sell your "big data" to other institutions. There was a big expose in the UK where Tesco's (a huge grocery chain similar to Superstore here), started issuing credit cards (but the real bank behind it is always a normal bank). They track your spending habits -- if you are buying the organic top range shit, they think you're a solid customer, whereas if you are buying crappier foods, The underlying bank for PC Financial is actually just CIBC lol.
No shit, Sherlock. You don't think I read the agreement when I signed up?

The drawback with PC banking is having to go to a CIBC For some transactions. Having said that, I've yet to step into a CIBC branch during the four or five years I've been with PC. As for them knowing my spending habits I don't give rat's ass.
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Old 04-07-2013, 04:27 PM   #38
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I like how they are back pedaling now, saying it's not RBC that is using foreign workers, it is their supplier that is doing it. However, the CEO and the same HR lady Chair a company that expedites foreign workers visas. It just gets better.

TRIEC | Council Members


As for being responsible to shareholders, I get that argument to a point. However, all the RBC Board members will be cutting themselves huge cheques on the heels of their largest profit year ever, and to continue growth you need to build your reputation in the market place. Therefore, the Board reaps the benefits, and your shares are going to plummet on the backlash of this PR fiasco. Too late.
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Old 04-07-2013, 06:53 PM   #39
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the fact is if government allows this... What stops companies from hiring foreign accounts... Sales agents or even clerical workers.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:08 PM   #40
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I get what you're saying, but corporations are not there to do charity work. They are there to benefit their shareholders and their shareholders only. The extra wages they pay out do not necessarily go back to them.
I'll cede that, despite that I take issue with it.

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They don't answer to the Canadian people or to the government. The government is responsible for ensuring that the best interests of its people are preserved without severely hindering the free market.
And that's why I take more issue with the government than with RBC in this instance.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:32 PM   #41
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Though I don't exactly agree with RBC's decision, they are there to protect their shareholders' interest. If you owned RBC shares and found out they were paying you less dividends and wasting money overpaying Canadian workers for something an Indian can do for half the cost, you wouldn't be chirping the same tune. Also, there is no onus on the individual to save for retirement? How do you expect to retire if you don't have savings in your late 50s to 60s?
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I'm pretty much a huge capitalist myself (and so is much of my family) but this heads down a very slippery slope.There is no way that any Canadian worker can compete for that matter with third world employees who do not require the same standard of living in their home countries as you would minimally need in Canada. The question isn't whether a company can, it's whether its ethical.

There are many reasons why someone wouldn't have savings and it may not have to do with assuming that he must have recklessly spent all his money. It could just as easily reflect an ongoing issue of insufficient income and inequality of income as jobs have knowingly been outsourced and wages have been artificially depressed through job restructuring and flexible labor strategies (also the costs for a lot of basics have gone up while wages have remained stagnant). This has increasingly left many workers forced to compete with the remaining jobs (and in the worst cases like this guy, they may be caught in a gap between being too old to retrain or not having the right skills to find similarly paid work).
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:48 PM   #42
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What's the difference between this and automating a factory with robots. It's just an evolution of doing business. If you can save money outsourcing, why not? While I empathize with the workers, it's silly of them to not know what the state of their industry is.
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Old 04-07-2013, 07:53 PM   #43
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the fact is if government allows this... What stops companies from hiring foreign accounts... Sales agents or even clerical workers.
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That's exactly what I was thinking when I read this thread. If RBC can get special treatment from the government, nothing is stopping Canadian companies in other industries from replacing Canadian jobs with foreign workers, simply by stating that they can't find local talent..
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:17 PM   #44
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Though I don't exactly agree with RBC's decision, they are there to protect their shareholders' interest. If you owned RBC shares and found out they were paying you less dividends and wasting money overpaying Canadian workers for something an Indian can do for half the cost, you wouldn't be chirping the same tune. Also, there is no onus on the individual to save for retirement? How do you expect to retire if you don't have savings in your late 50s to 60s?
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This guy gets it, RBC answers to shareholders, who want bigger profits, not Canadian employment (directly)

Having said that, the government should not let it happen, the government is there to protect its citizens and their property, wonder what the truth is behind this, and whether its actually true/whether government will act if true
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:19 PM   #45
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This isn't the only company doing this. In the airline sector Sunwing airlines has been hiring German pilots for years. I believe AirTransat just announced they will be doing something similar. Their excuse is they can't find qualified personnel. That is just BS, they just aren't prepared to pay for them.
I would have thought there'd be very little or no benefit - not like Germans are cheap employees (would be efficient as fuck) - clearly I don't know all the facts, wonder why this is done/how the savings are made vs Canadian pilots
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Old 04-07-2013, 08:24 PM   #46
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If it's all in the interest of share holders, what is stopping the rest of Canada's larger companies from doing the same? This isn't about the share holders, it's about ethics, and it's unethical to fire a worker in Canada just to replace him or her with a foreign worker "because it's cheaper". The workers here are all doing their jobs, so why would they need to be replaced?

Slippery slope.
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Old 04-07-2013, 09:30 PM   #47
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No but due to their military cut backs and reunification, there are tons of pilot with more hours than Canada (not to mention training etc).

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I would have thought there'd be very little or no benefit - not like Germans are cheap employees (would be efficient as fuck) - clearly I don't know all the facts, wonder why this is done/how the savings are made vs Canadian pilots
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:04 PM   #48
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Slippery slope.
it's starting to happen in more industries lately:

Mining companies hiring "temporary" foreign workers:

B.C. mine to hire only Chinese temporary workers for years - British Columbia - CBC News


Construction companies hiring illegal workers:

Deported worker criticizes TV crew at immigration raid - British Columbia - CBC News

and now RBC.

I really blame the government for not stepping in and doing their jobs properly.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:18 PM   #49
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i use TD canada trust. at least when they screw up, they at least admit it, say sorry and try to fix it. RBC i get the sorry too bad so sad.
i setup an account at TD when i first started working. they sent me a bank card with the name wrong so i went to the bank to get a replacement card. new card came in with the same wrong name. closed that account immediately.
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Old 04-07-2013, 11:25 PM   #50
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Except pilots in Germany make bank. Post Sec school in Germany is free, except for pilots. Reflecting that is the wages they can make if they fly in Germany. Also, the JAR regulations (FAA for Europe) lic. does not convert over with much ease. So I doubt your statement is accurate at all.
Trust me, I'm an airline pilot for Canada's largest airline. I'm well aware of the details.

http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/transat-c...leet-1.1224781

As for Sunwing and German pilots. Put the two words in Googles fantastic search box if you don't believe me. Corporations around the world are cutting costs anywhere they can. Someone needs to stop it, as the government doesn't seem to have any intention to do so.
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