Canada's smallest condos in Surrey

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

I thought CMHC required a min. 20% down?

to avoid mortgage insurance.

[dinosaur]

[Marshall Placid]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

I didn't want to start a new thread on a topic that was somewhat similar to this, so I'll thought I would post here...

Was flipping through the local paper today and say and advert for a new condo\townhouse development being built here in New West (one of many, actually). The advert claimed that if you buy on the unit, they will PAY your mortgage for 24 months.

They are priced from $159,900 (one bed) and go to over $400k.

Quick google search and found this: New West

Looked up the developer`s site but its only to register (which I did out of curiosity): Elliot Street | Collection | CENSORIO

How is it possible for them to pay the mortgage for 24 months? There was no other info...do you think they are going to rebate? I imagine to qualify the down payment would need to be huge.

How are they going to do this? Whats the loop-hole? Thoughts?

(note-i am not considering buying one....i`ve just never seen this sales pitch before)

About the location:
Location wise.... it's definitely ABOVE average.

You get a park nearby and the old and new downtown New West is nearby.

The police station (transit police, but it is large station) is about 3 to 4 blocks away.

Pretty large mall about 6 blocks away.

Good location.

About the 24 months no-payment (they pay for you):
I think Gridlock nailed it on the head when he mentioned that their cost to entice buyers is really not that high at all. It's a high-rise with 121 units. I think by providing 24 months worth of payments translates to about 1% to 2% of overall costs, which is somewhat low for marketing expenses.

And, I think that the developer is trying to sell it quickly; perhaps, they think that the market is saturated and is trending downwards.

By selling the units quickly, they lock in buyers since the high-rise completes mid-2015.

Buyers would sign contracts with no-out clauses and the developers get guaranteed sold units.

And/or:

The developer is trying to sell as many units as possible to meet the demands of its loan facilities provided by the bank. I believe it is a 3 or 4 stage loan provision. So, the 1st stage is to build the foundation. Then, the bank would release the 1st portion of the loan (say... 25%). 2nd stage is when they have the crane up with the steel frame, then the bank would release the 2nd portion... etc. I think when the developers pre-sells over 50%, the bank will release the other 2 stage portions. Perhaps, this is what the developer wants to accomplish? This could foretell a bad situation where the developer is low on cash and relies heavily on bank loans for the development of the high-rise.

[dinosaur]

Yeah, the location is great. They have done some amazing things in New West in the last 2 year and I quite enjoy living here.

They 24 month thing seem a little interesting. Ideally, I`d buy and stick a renter in there....but, will strata allow it? Who knows.

Could rent the one bedroom for $1100+...would be nice to pocket that for 24 months...I dunno. There seems to be a recent push for new options in condo buying...

[Marshall Placid]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

Yeah, the location is great. They have done some amazing things in New West in the last 2 year and I quite enjoy living here.

They 24 month thing seem a little interesting. Ideally, I`d buy and stick a renter in there....but, will strata allow it? Who knows.

Could rent the one bedroom for $1100+...would be nice to pocket that for 24 months...I dunno. There seems to be a recent push for new options in condo buying...

Many units are purchased and rented out.

Strata will MOST likely allow it, provided it meets the strata bylaws (maybe a no-pet or a maximum size pet bylaw, etc.).

On paper, you will be cash flow positive if they pay for 24 months and you pocket $1,100 per month.

Of course, you probably already figured that you need to pay the down-payment, monthly strata fees, etc. And, there is the potential for upside AS WELL as downside in the value of the condo.

If you buy 1 unit, and have plans to upgrade your current home, this 1 unit purchase might hinder your plans to upgrade in the near future, if you are unable to unload the Censorio apartment purchase.

[dinosaur]

Down payment isn`t a problem...current property is rented out. Bought in 2008 and have never lived in it (rented out the day after it was completed). I wouldn`t be looking at dumping my current property or unloading the Censorio condo (if we bought one). Was lucky to not have any rental restrictions with my townhouse.

Looking for more rental investments...

[dinosaur]

Saw this story today and reminded me of this thread.

I find it amusing that we needed to put this in a museum...."challenge" a couple to live in it for A WHOLE 24 HOURS!!! (OMG!), and then do a news story on CNN about it.

#firstworldproblems

CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Found this stat amusing as well- Average home sized around the world (or 6 countries...):

US: 2,300sf
Australia: 2,217sf
Denmark: 1,475sf
France: 1,216sf
Spain: 1,044sf
Ireland: 947sf
UK: 818sf

[RFlush]

Hah, I live in a 340sq ft place that cost's me around $1750cdn to rent, albeit it's in HK.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Marshall Placid

About the location:
Location wise.... it's definitely ABOVE average.

You get a park nearby and the old and new downtown New West is nearby.

The police station (transit police, but it is large station) is about 3 to 4 blocks away.

Pretty large mall about 6 blocks away.

Good location.

About the 24 months no-payment (they pay for you):
I think Gridlock nailed it on the head when he mentioned that their cost to entice buyers is really not that high at all. It's a high-rise with 121 units. I think by providing 24 months worth of payments translates to about 1% to 2% of overall costs, which is somewhat low for marketing expenses.

And, I think that the developer is trying to sell it quickly; perhaps, they think that the market is saturated and is trending downwards.

By selling the units quickly, they lock in buyers since the high-rise completes mid-2015.

Buyers would sign contracts with no-out clauses and the developers get guaranteed sold units.

And/or:

The developer is trying to sell as many units as possible to meet the demands of its loan facilities provided by the bank. I believe it is a 3 or 4 stage loan provision. So, the 1st stage is to build the foundation. Then, the bank would release the 1st portion of the loan (say... 25%). 2nd stage is when they have the crane up with the steel frame, then the bank would release the 2nd portion... etc. I think when the developers pre-sells over 50%, the bank will release the other 2 stage portions. Perhaps, this is what the developer wants to accomplish? This could foretell a bad situation where the developer is low on cash and relies heavily on bank loans for the development of the high-rise.

Thank you for this insightful analysis.

[LiquidTurbo]

Home : Sefton Springs

thoughts?

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Home : Sefton Springs

thoughts?

Here is what I am hating about the "new" townhomes being built....

-If I am buying a damn townhouse, why don't I get all 3 floors!?
-Where is my garage? Isn't that the bonus of paying a little extra? I get stairs and a garage.
-Stop telling me that is called a "den". Its a small space where a closet should be.
-When did we start hating outdoor space? Ever a small 6x6 foot patch a grass would be nice.
-Where is the linen closet? Where can I store my vacuum? Where is the coat closet?
-Please stop putting a bathroom in the living room. My guests and I are okay walking upstairs. Nobody wants to hear each other tinkle.

The 3 down to 2 floors is really irking me. Who is the sucker paying to live in the basement suite blow your "townhouse"? Imagine trying to re-sell that? What are the perks? No sun. Ground floor. Small. Most likely a family with kids living above you. Oh, and your paying a lot to do so. No thanks. And really, one of the perks about buying a townhouse is you get a garage! When did developers think taking this away was good??

Ugh.

But to answer your question. It depends what you are looking for. They are "cheap" comparatively...but in the middle of nowhere. My thoughts are they are cheap because they are small and using shitty material. That area is so insanely saturated with new development right now so don't plan on selling for a very long time....like a VERY long time. Developers have literally bulldozed Ferngully to built 10,000 condos and townhomes.

Also, the website sucks and the developer doesn't even have a website. Probably some random landowner decided it was big enough to throw some cheap townhouses on the land and sell. I'd be pretty hesitant.

[bcedhk]

Yea I would avoid for sure. Price is attractive, but as Dinosaur mentioned, floor plan sucks.

Pretty sure sound proofing will be horrible.

[Gridlock]

The funny thing is there really isn't a definition of townhouse.

My mom's condo was listed in all the paperwork as a "townhouse" but as it was a one floor, 2 bedroom apartment up a flight of stairs it seemed kind of "apartmenty" to me.

Be really careful on locking into something that isn't "the" home in an area where you are going to compete against developers to sell your unit.

My prediction(based on no real expertise) is that we are sitting on a price peak along the lines of 2007. I personally wouldn't be in a hurry to buy in an average unit, on an average street in an average area where I'll be competing with new development to sell the place..and that is a very important concept, because this is very much a starter home.

But that's just me, and others can claim that you'll sell it for $400k and would be fucking retarded not to buy it.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by eddy89

Pretty sure sound proofing will be horrible.

Shouldn't be that bad if done correctly. Almost all party walls in Condo and townhouse developments are at least STC 50 but most getting closer to 60 with a double wall, 2 rows of insulation and 3 layers of Drywall. Living in a condo or townhouse you have to expect some noise, it's not like living in a detached house.

The sound transfer between my basement and ground floor in my house is ridiculous as you can hear absolutely everything, it's just us so I haven't done anything about it but if I was to rent out my basement I could easily make it close to sound proof for everyday sounds.

[dinosaur]

Here are some of my overall thoughts.

Prices are currently out of control. This is no newsflash. We know it, realtors know it, developers know it, media knows it, gov't knows it, my bunny knows it...hell, there have been dozens of threads on RS dedicated to it.

On top of this, development is out of control. These builders can't put up these things fast enough to the point where at any given time in any given city (van, coq, burn, nw, surrey, rich, etc) I am sure any one of us can name 5-10 development currently being built. All of them have the same floor plan. All of them have the same view. All of them have the same "features". All of them are the same size.

-beige paint walls
-solid surface counters
-engineers wood flooring
-subway-tiled back splash
-12x24 floor tiles
-beige carpet in the bedrooms
-pressboard cupboards

You get two design choices...the dark or the light? Apart from the odd over-priced upgrade for a better shower head, this is your only choice.

Truthfully, its fine. Its all fine. I have walked though these show homes as well and totally fallen in love with the "new car" smell. They are nice. All of them. Like....ALL of them. Because they are all the same.

So, developers can no longer compete on quality, finishes, floor plans, and amenities...so we start to compete on pricing. Good for us, right?? Well, no. These people are not really competing with pricing, they are just getting better at pulling the wool over your eyes.

For example, take this Sefton Springs development. $209K?? well, damn thats a great price! Too bad its only one unit available...and without even asking, we all know its the worst unit. Maybe partially subsurface...view is a concrete wall...or there is no view because the windows are too small. So, right off the bat, let eliminate this "$209k" bullshit.

Whats next? Plan C (price-wise). The "townhouse" for $269k. Great deal!! Oh wait....only 500 sq/ft per floor...with the added bonus that when your arms are stretched, you can touch both walls. Cool. Have fun still purchasing apartment sized furniture for your upgraded townhouse.

Plan B. This is a condo. A ground floor condo. A ground floor condo that you are now buying for almost $300k. How is this different than anyone other condo in the lower mainland? Its not.

You say, "wait! its not $300k, its $289,900!". Oh, but wait....the bonus of having a complex built like this and the developer NOT giving people a garage is that now you have to buy a parking spot! YAY!. So that "good deal" is now comparable to all others in the area. You want a spot? Add $15-20k to the purchase price.

If they are not doing the above, they are doing something else. These beautiful display homes everyone walks through are nothing like the end product. I've been there. Take away all the pretty paint, all the upgrades which nobody should pay for, all the furniture and art on the walls and you are literally left with a shitty rental apartment with better floors.

Plan A should be $109k
Plan B should be $149k
Plan C should be $129k

IF you are set on buying, you should get a realtor and look at units built within the last 5 years. They will be the same...and you will be able to get a far better deal.

[Presto]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Home : Sefton Springs

thoughts?

I clicked. Saw $209k, and was intrigued. Damn, that's a decent price for a townhome. Then, I clicked on the floor plans.



That's a cheap-ass condo with horrible layout

[quasi]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

If they are not doing the above, they are doing something else. These beautiful display homes everyone walks through is nothing like the end product. I've been there. Take away all the pretty paint, all the upgrades which nobody should pay for, all the furniture and art on the walls and you are literally left with a shitty rental apartment with better floors.

I'm sure that's the case sometimes but not in every case. We've done a couple show homes for a GC who does lots of developments throughout the lower mainland. They stress that we are not to do any special finishes and they do there best to ensure that the show units are as close to what the finished product will look like as possible. I'm not doubting that happens a lot I'm just saying there are still some companies out there that don't want to sell something that doesn't exist.