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Old 04-18-2013, 02:15 PM   #26
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Charge $800/month for a shoebox in an area where places that are twice as big and cheaper are readily available.....because people love paying mortgages on empty properties.
That's not what she was saying. In order to completely cut out the social assistance avenue, you need to go above 8 bills.

Obviously, you wouldn't be able to do that on these micro suites.

A tenant of mine moved over there into a 1 bed condo near gateway station for 900. Nicely finished, but I'd presume, small.

I'm assuming that these type suites, of course all conjecture because we don't even know if there are rental restrictions, would probably rent in the 650ish area, fully equipped. If people want it cheaper, they can save up and buy.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:19 PM   #27
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:20 PM   #28
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Own in both "The Gruv" and Evo, $950-$1100 month per rent and both buildings are filled with drug dealers and escorts so that $900 theory kinda goes out the window.

Not to mention we have close connections to multiple members on the strata council so we see the issues directly arising with the buildings

What's the saying about putting lipstick on a pig?
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:22 PM   #29
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:33 PM   #30
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Own in both "The Gruv" and Evo, $950-$1100 month per rent and both buildings are filled with drug dealers and escorts so that $900 theory kinda goes out the window.

Not to mention we have close connections to multiple members on the strata council so we see the issues directly arising with the buildings

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I re-did 2 separate apartments in Infinity tower.

The one was owned as a rental by a regular client of mine. Tenant trashed it. I got fired from the job for being too expensive, then got rehired at more money to go and fix it..but anyway.

New tenant is in the apartment, and something was "off" she was nice and all. On the phone a fuckload, with short conversations. Didn't really care.

Was working with my bro-in-law, and I just looked at him and said, "she's a hooker". Zero facts to back it up...nothing.

Client tells me a few months later...yup...escort. Those buildings are shitty. They look worn. I did one of the apartments about a year after occupancy and then the other about 3 years....and the building communal areas just looked bad. No one gives a fuck.

And on the 900 rent...I don't know why she'd lie. She was done with my place, and all. Maybe she found a dumb landlord.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:43 PM   #31
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I think this is a great price for what it offers.

Although it was a little bit bigger(than the one in the picture), I used to live in a similar officetel(studio) in Korea and it never felt inadequate.

Just quickly thinking back on it, couple inconveniences i experienced were:
No dryer(option)
Cooking smells up the entire house
Soundproofing sucks shit. I would think especially more for space efficient buildings like this.

Other than that, it was great for what it is.

I wasn't home for most of the time anyways and the article points that out.
Its for the next generation, their dining rooms are restaurants(even if thats mcdonalds), not the living room.

Its targeted to 'those' people and it is definitely affordable for them.

If i was making 2k/mo, living on rent, who wouldn't buy this?

However the low price of these units makes me think more people would be interested in buying them and eventually becoming another rent unit building. A lot of people have 100k to throw around in vancouver imo.

I have no knowledge in real estate.
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:46 PM   #32
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I re-did 2 separate apartments in Infinity tower.

The one was owned as a rental by a regular client of mine. Tenant trashed it. I got fired from the job for being too expensive, then got rehired at more money to go and fix it..but anyway.

New tenant is in the apartment, and something was "off" she was nice and all. On the phone a fuckload, with short conversations. Didn't really care.

Was working with my bro-in-law, and I just looked at him and said, "she's a hooker". Zero facts to back it up...nothing.

Client tells me a few months later...yup...escort. Those buildings are shitty. They look worn. I did one of the apartments about a year after occupancy and then the other about 3 years....and the building communal areas just looked bad. No one gives a fuck.

And on the 900 rent...I don't know why she'd lie. She was done with my place, and all. Maybe she found a dumb landlord.
Infinity towers are a gong show but like any high rise it's all about who your surrounding neighbors are. It would be my worst nightmare to move into a place and go to sleep
And hear music playing till 4 am
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Old 04-18-2013, 02:53 PM   #33
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These are definatley going to become more common. In Germany I lived in an apartment around the same size with 400euro/month rent. It was livable, lay out was nice. And the town was covered in these small apartments. Very normal there. Not bad for someone wanting to invest a bit of money, at $109,000 they are only going to go up in value.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:00 PM   #34
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:00 PM   #35
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These are definatley going to become more common. In Germany I lived in an apartment around the same size with 400euro/month rent. It was livable, lay out was nice. And the town was covered in these small apartments. Very normal there. Not bad for someone wanting to invest a bit of money, at $109,000 they are only going to go up in value.
I agree. I really think this is going to be a popular trend. Places this small are VERY common in Europe and I like the trend.

I watch those house-buying shows on HGTV and am always blown away when a 3 member family thinks a 5000 sq. ft. house is TOO SMALL to raise a family in. I couldn't imagine living in a space that big....you could go for weeks without even going into certain rooms. crazy.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:16 PM   #36
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Too bad it's not more central. Can definitely see the concept working out with the number of 30k millionaires we see around town.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:48 PM   #37
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‘Canada’s smallest-ever condominiums’ start at 297 square feet in Whalley | Globalnews.ca

New Homes from $109,900! | Live at Balance

So taking the purchase price of $109,900 and doing a ROUGH mortgage payment estimation, you are looking at about $550.00\month.

I have 6 bachelor apartments at my buildings that rent from $650-720 that are roughly the same size...a little outdated, no dishwasher, and no laundry (an optional upgrade at Balance).

Definitively an investment worth considering, I think....
even if you're slightly cashflow positive or neutral after considering property taxes and strata fees etc.

it's important to remember the risks involved:
what happens if there is a correction in the market and that property is now worth 25% less (say another recession hits). you just lost $25,000! it will take years of "positive cash flow" to make up for the $25K you just lost.

Also, what about other condos propping up in the area and which increases the supply of condos and therefore decreases your rental rate.

Lastly, what happens if mortage rates increase after 5 years?, you may not be cash flow positive anymore.
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Old 04-18-2013, 03:51 PM   #38
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even if you're slightly cashflow positive or neutral after considering property taxes and strata fees etc.

it's important to remember the risks involved:
what happens if there is a correction in the market and that property is now worth 25% less (say another recession hits). you just lost $25,000! it will take years of "positive cash flow" to make up for the $25K you just lost.

Also, what about other condos propping up in the area and which increases the supply of condos and therefore decreases your rental rate.

Lastly, what happens if mortage rates increase after 5 years?, you may not be cash flow positive anymore.
everything you just posted applies to anyone looking to buy a property/condo... not just these complexes, its the risk of buying, but look at history, shit just gets more expensive as population rises.. sure it might temporarily go down, but its bound to go up again
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:08 PM   #39
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even if you're slightly cashflow positive or neutral after considering property taxes and strata fees etc.

it's important to remember the risks involved:
what happens if there is a correction in the market and that property is now worth 25% less (say another recession hits). you just lost $25,000! it will take years of "positive cash flow" to make up for the $25K you just lost.

Also, what about other condos propping up in the area and which increases the supply of condos and therefore decreases your rental rate.

Lastly, what happens if mortage rates increase after 5 years?, you may not be cash flow positive anymore.
Don't get me wrong, there can be and are a lot of negatives to having an investment property.

I own property in Langley that I have rented out and fortunately\unfortunately it is neutral cashflow. I bought in 2008 right before the huge dip in real estate so it has not increased equity as I would have like. My rate is OK but I am hoping when I re-new next year I'll be able to get .5-1% lower which will help me move into a positive situation. The area I bought in has ballooned with development so the market is currently saturated and I have had some issue with tenants a few years ago.

Gone are the days of flipping and make quick money. I don't plan on selling my investment for 10....15 years possibly. Will I make as much as I want? HELL NO! Those days are done...but I will make enough to be okay with it.

In specific regards to this condo in Surrey...I am some-what interested. Will need to discuss the details and crunch some numbers. It may be worth it...it may not.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:13 PM   #40
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as long as it has all the basics (especially wash/dryer) then its not a bad price..
if i remember reading the article in the paper correctly, they said that everything that made it functional for that space - the appliances fit for the space - were extra options?

if that's the case that can add on a few extra thousand dollars for a fitted out unit?
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:14 PM   #41
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I think conservatively if you are looking to re-sell in 5-10 years, it could go somewhere in the $140s? maybe?
To begin, I appreciate your and Gridlock's insights on the rental market. I wouldn't expect bachelors to rent out quickly or readily, and the knowledge that they do makes these properties much more interesting from an investment perspective.

I'm very hesitant to agree on the quoted point, however, I think there's a significant likelihood these properties will decline in value over a 10 year cycle. I know there are similar apartments in Abbotsford, which is also a rapidly growing and improving community. Those apartments listed new at $125k four years ago and currently I see one listed for $97k, so the owner is easily taking a $30k hit after realtor commission. The building allows rentals and similar units list for about $825/month, so after strata and taxes, they're cash flowing about $100/month. That puts the owner at a $26k loss. I think these apartments will fair better, because the location is closer to transitioning from "up and coming" to "a place to be" but still, I see a probable loss not gains.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:26 PM   #42
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To begin, I appreciate your and Gridlock's insights on the rental market. I wouldn't expect bachelors to rent out quickly or readily, and the knowledge that they do makes these properties much more interesting from an investment perspective.

I'm very hesitant to agree on the quoted point, however, I think there's a significant likelihood these properties will decline in value over a 10 year cycle. I know there are similar apartments in Abbotsford, which is also a rapidly growing and improving community. Those apartments listed new at $125k four years ago and currently I see one listed for $97k, so the owner is easily taking a $30k hit after realtor commission. The building allows rentals and similar units list for about $825/month, so after strata and taxes, they're cash flowing about $100/month. That puts the owner at a $26k loss. I think these apartments will fair better, because the location is closer to transitioning from "up and coming" to "a place to be" but still, I see a probable loss not gains.
Yeah, I could see that. TBH, I don't have a lot of understanding in predicting how the real estate market go in regards to condos specifically like these. I would be hesitant to buy with a quick exit strategy and a condo like this may be worth to hang onto for a very long time or potentially pass onto my kids.

We are always looking at condos, etc to buy for investment reasons and it is difficult unless you have a 100k+ down payment to even become revenue neutral when renting them out and even then, you maybe not be able to. Between strata and mortgage, it is not worth it. The only thing I like about these is that with only a 20% down payment there is a good chance we would be able to rent it out without posting a monthly loss.

As for selling? You are right...that could be a huge issue.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:27 PM   #43
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if i remember reading the article in the paper correctly, they said that everything that made it functional for that space - the appliances fit for the space - were extra options?

if that's the case that can add on a few extra thousand dollars for a fitted out unit?
From what I read on the website...all appliances are included except the washer\dryer.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:40 PM   #44
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I didnt even know it was legal to have a place that small.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:50 PM   #45
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When did we start thinking that spending 100k on a box was acceptable? If this was in a place like downtown or NYC or somewhere that mattered, sure, sacrificing living space for relatively cheap apartments would be ok....
...but this isn't. This is Surrey.... B.C.'s second biggest "city" and first biggest shithole.

To be honest, I don't even expect that the developer really cares about the building or the community. Hes using this development as an example to prove the profitability of his talents to investors. He builds a cheap building, sells it out quickly, and gets decent press and even bigger buzz about it.

Expect that, in a few years time when house prices continue to climb, he'll open a similar type of development closer to a place that matters (perhaps in Richmond or closer to downtown) with a much higher price which they'll justify by saying "Well, we opened a low-cost development in Surrey but you can't take the Surrey out of Surrey so we have to price out the trash on this one".

He probably gets some sort of incentive for creating "low cost" housing for the people who can't afford a $649,000 East Vancouver crackshack. He probably uses cheaper materials because they're intended for "low cost" housing (so he can justify barely meeting building code). And he'll probably build it in a currently distressed area (as he did in Whalley) where he gets the land for a song because hes set a precedent for doing so. All of this will turn out to be a much greater ROI for him on his next development.

Hes playing the long game and I have to respect that.


That being said, I'd buy into Sequel138 long before this one.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:53 PM   #46
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They should be $80k and less and larger. Low Income housing in Whalley makes sense that is in Surrey since they've got the property for it
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:57 PM   #47
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I really hope these aren't bought up by property investors, I would hate to see these things being flipped or rented out. Let the lower income people who actually want to live in them have a chance at owning a home. It's a neat idea, seem a bit overpriced considering the area though.
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:00 PM   #48
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I think this will absolutely be bought out by investors, especially young investors who are looking for a low-cost initial real-estate investment. Their inexperience will lead them to rent to the first person who comes along (to ensure that they immediately defer their out of pocket costs) or have a rental service who really doesn't care find a tenant.

This building will become an armpit
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Old 04-18-2013, 05:18 PM   #49
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If one was going to buy this place as a temporary apartment in life, why not save yourself years of work... including the monthly strata fees and taxes, and buy a cheap used school bus for 10k for the same space and convert it to an RV.
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Paying $367/sq ft in Whalley is a good investment?

If anyone thinks this is a good investment, I have some waterfront property in Phoenix that I can sell you for cheap
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