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Old 01-30-2014, 10:03 AM   #10101
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:43 AM   #10102
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in all seriousness theres really only 2 ways to look at it.

1. the team doesnt have the depth, there's a new coach/system, and injuries to key players = team not able to get into sync or have personnel to do it

2. their older players are incapable of producing at their previous level, and need to have their expectations changed and others brought in to replace the place they played before.

last 2 years i thought the team wasnt deep enough, and that the lockout last year really hurt their chemistry. this year i cant really decide between the 2, but still lean towards the first. i expect next year to be the season that actually determines which one it is. yet trading the core is not really needed as sedins and burrows can be shifted down to places they played earlier in their career. the talent can be there in 2 years, especially if horvat, and kassian keep developing like they currently are.

kassian - kesler - shinkaruk ... or... kassian - horvat - kesler etc(yea i doubt kassian is a 1st line winger in 2 years but should be a top 6 producer)
higgins - horvat - gaunce .........sedin - sedin - burrows
sedin - sedin - burrows.........higgins - ? - hansen
hansen - ? - higgins .........archibald - lain - gaunce

or they could trade future away this year and royally fuck up when they get bounced.
A few matters of contention with your "proposed" lineup:

- Sedins on the third line..? Thats alot of money for third liners!
- You're assumption about Kassian being a top 6 producer is unjustified regardless of the little progress we've seen this year. I for one am still not sold on Kassian.

Overall, I don't wanna tag along for another "experiment" year in the 2014-2015 season. This is 3 consecutive years where management has failed to make some significant upgrades to the team. Albeit, Gillis has been restrained by a lower cap, I still don't see how acquiring david booth or jason garrison has made this team better.

On a related note, why is Gillis so afraid of trading away an expensive piece. You see Pittsburgh do it all the time for example. Trade away from a strong part of a team i.e our defence to reinforce a weaker part--in this case our offence.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:48 AM   #10103
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IMO if you decide to trade Kesler VS Sedins we're fucking finished

I understand the Sedins value is low right now and Kesler as an individual has potential
For greater return than a package deal but Kesler has what we need, Sedins don't.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:52 AM   #10104
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get Ott and Goc as rumors say - we can play a shut down game blocking shots
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Higgins-Kesler-Santorelli/JS
Ott-JS/Santo-Hansen
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:13 AM   #10105
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Anyone who thinks Gillis isn't phoning other GMs and looking to work out deals is delusional. Lettuce be reality, we all know its hard to make a trade in this league and all the pieces need to fall together for both teams to make it happen.

Granted, he put himself in a position with all the NTCs, but we don't have anything of high value (right now). We bitch when he doesn't make a trade, if he makes a trade where we take the short end of the stick, we bitch even more. When a trade doesn't work out for us, we bitch. This fanbase will never be satisfied and its time we stop sniffing cocaine and realize we're handicapped for the next 5 years. Gotta give up good players for a good return.

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Old 01-30-2014, 11:19 AM   #10106
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On a related note, why is Gillis so afraid of trading away an expensive piece. You see Pittsburgh do it all the time for example. Trade away from a strong part of a team i.e our defence to reinforce a weaker part--in this case our offence.
It's because the "expensive pieces" you so dearly want traded all have no-movement clauses.

As for Kassian- people forget that he's a year younger than Coho. People look at Coho and say "man look what MG traded away- a first line center!!!!!!!!"

First of all- he's a first line center because that Sabres team is in utter shambles. Second- Kassian is a type of player that takes a longer time to develop compared to a pure offensive scorer. Bertuzzi didn't take off until he was in his mid-20s. Lucic had the luxury of playing time regardless of mistakes made which is something that this team refuses to do.

The jump that Kassian has made from last year to this year is huge. He's becoming way more confident with the puck. Sure he's making mistakes that cost games. But Canuck fans need to be real and see that the team is not going anywhere this year, and possibly next year. So why not take the time to develop the guys who management will be counting on in the next few seasons.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:23 AM   #10107
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IMO, the fans in this city isn't willing to give up anything in order to get a bigger return. Listening to callers on TEAM1040, no one is willing to give the team a chance to rebuild by trading a few pieces worth value NOW, to get value LATER. I think the worst thing for the team to do right now is hanging onto the pieces they have, get in the playoffs limping, bounced in the first round for a few years and all the pieces are then worthless after that and suffer overall for a long time. Look around the league, it took teams like Chicago, Anaheim, NYI, Pitts, CAPs a few years to get their core together and to get to where they are now. The only exceptional example I can think of is Detroit where their scouts seem to have a hack for drafting exceptional players deep
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:23 AM   #10108
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The jump that Kassian has made from last year to this year is huge. He's becoming way more confident with the puck. Sure he's making mistakes that cost games. But Canuck fans need to be real and see that the team is not going anywhere this year, and possibly next year. So why not take the time to develop the guys who management will be counting on in the next few seasons.
This is the key point. Using Calgary as an example, they kept trading away picks and prospects trying to get into the playoffs every year while they had Iginla and Kipper.
Now look at the Flames. It will take them a few more years to build up their core before they can be contenders again.

Look at Detroit. As good as they were, they are not the same team without Datsyuk and Zetterberg, and soon those 2 guys will retire and who will step up to the play for them? They let Damien Brunner walk away for nothing.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:45 AM   #10109
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It's because the "expensive pieces" you so dearly want traded all have no-movement clauses.
I don't put much stock into NTC. Those can be dealt with rather swiftly if the conditions are right. If the player in question sees his potential new team as having a better chance than our good ol canucks at winning (which in this case is almost certain with the exception of a few teams) then there's a good chance they would waive it.

Look, I am not saying sell the farm, what I am saying is how much longer are we gonna take to realize that there needs to be some personnel change for a proper rebuild to occur. The orange that is the Sedins has pretty much been squeezed to its potential. They obviously aren't going anywhere, so who does that leave thats trade-able (not taking NTC's into consideration)? a few names come to mind but i'll refrain from mentioning em..
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:51 AM   #10110
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It's because the "expensive pieces" you so dearly want traded all have no-movement clauses.

As for Kassian- people forget that he's a year younger than Coho. People look at Coho and say "man look what MG traded away- a first line center!!!!!!!!"

First of all- he's a first line center because that Sabres team is in utter shambles. Second- Kassian is a type of player that takes a longer time to develop compared to a pure offensive scorer. Bertuzzi didn't take off until he was in his mid-20s. Lucic had the luxury of playing time regardless of mistakes made which is something that this team refuses to do.

The jump that Kassian has made from last year to this year is huge. He's becoming way more confident with the puck. Sure he's making mistakes that cost games. But Canuck fans need to be real and see that the team is not going anywhere this year, and possibly next year. So why not take the time to develop the guys who management will be counting on in the next few seasons.
This. Kassian has made leaps and bounds this year, and the past few games he's be one of our best forwards. He's finally learning how to protect the puck at an NHL level, is playing physically, and contributing offensively. Kassian is only 23 years old, many guys don't breakout in this league until they're around 25.

While this is all going on, many other players aren't doing very much at all, which I think is more of a concern. Daniel Sedin has been a mystery, as his drop in play from even last year is remarkable. I understand he's a year older, but he's 33, it's not like he's a 40 something year old man.

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Old 01-30-2014, 11:56 AM   #10111
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I don't put much stock into NTC. Those can be dealt with rather swiftly if the conditions are right. If the player in question sees his potential new team as having a better chance than our good ol canucks at winning (which in this case is almost certain with the exception of a few teams) then there's a good chance they would waive it.
What's so easy about moving NTCs? Don't forget that the GM accepting the trade will have to then deal with a contract and player with a NTC.

You're assuming that players with NTCs want the get the hell out of Vancouver. What's to stop them from going to MG directly and asking to be traded then? I mean if they really wanted to leave Vancouver, why wouldn't they grease the wheels right?

The reason the players negotiated for NTCs (and subsequently took less $$ (much less in some cases)) than market value is because they want to stay here.

And armchair GMs always forget that with a team with so many NTCs- the second MG asks a player to be moved, he will likely poison the water enough that players both on the Canucks and around the league will look at MG's credibility as a GM and think twice about re-signing/coming here. Why would they sign here when they aren't even guaranteed to not be traded whilst signing a contract with a NTC.

I think we can all agree that MG painted himself into a corner with him dealing NTCs out like candy. But you guys asking for trades need to think about how much work actually goes in to making a trade work for both teams. It's not just team needs anymore. It's as much cap consequences as anything else nowadays. If (the general) you refuse to believe that, then you (again, general you) are just as bad as those "trade Booth for Ladd/ROR/Crosby" fans.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:25 PM   #10112
 
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the 2 most highly sought after players if the team went full rebuild, couldnt even be traded, even if they did waive ntcs. theres no contending team that has the cap and willing to give the prospects needed for the sedins.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:27 PM   #10113
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15 years for a mouth guard. Jesus. One way of looking at it though is that they really do work since he hasn't had to redo one due to missing teeth lol
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:47 PM   #10114
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Bieksa injured and didn't travel with the team lol
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:14 PM   #10115
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This stuff is funny and idiotic all at the same time. Player demands trade..everyone hates him...player wants NTC...everyone hates him. Personally having players request NTC's is better than players not wanting to play here.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:51 PM   #10116
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As expected: Santo out for the rest of the season (shoulder (torn labrum), 5-6 months).

At least now he has less leverage for a better contract for next year lol
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:04 PM   #10117
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Brutal for Santo, the guy just can't catch a break. That's a significant loss for us for sure. Such good centre depth we have
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:06 PM   #10118
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I'm still amazed at how Burrows has ZERO goals.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:26 PM   #10119
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Burrows just can't catch a break :/ .
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:36 PM   #10120
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Our team just simply isn't that great minus a few pieces. We have stellar goaltending. Thats really the only reason we are where we are in the standings IMO.
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:25 PM   #10121
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^Yep.

Someone actually called onto the Team today and actually said "if we had any sort of "great" goaltending over the past 2-3 years the Canucks would be more successful."




The only thing that has kept the Canucks in playoff position the past few years has been goaltending. You can even trace it back to the tail end of the Boston series. The team can't win any games scoring 0 goals in the playoffs (you technically can in the regular season )
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:26 PM   #10122
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don't worry guys, Burrows will breakout once he hits mid season form!
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:58 PM   #10123
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What's so easy about moving NTCs? Don't forget that the GM accepting the trade will have to then deal with a contract and player with a NTC.

You're assuming that players with NTCs want the get the hell out of Vancouver. What's to stop them from going to MG directly and asking to be traded then? I mean if they really wanted to leave Vancouver, why wouldn't they grease the wheels right?

The reason the players negotiated for NTCs (and subsequently took less $$ (much less in some cases)) than market value is because they want to stay here.

And armchair GMs always forget that with a team with so many NTCs- the second MG asks a player to be moved, he will likely poison the water enough that players both on the Canucks and around the league will look at MG's credibility as a GM and think twice about re-signing/coming here. Why would they sign here when they aren't even guaranteed to not be traded whilst signing a contract with a NTC.
I don't think NTC are as bad as you're making them out to be, and there are also 'limited NTC' where players can list a number of teams they would take a trade to or a number of teams they wouldn't move to. Simply put, it just formally gives the player the power to determine where he will play, it doesn't necessarily mean that the player always wants to stay with that same team that gave them the NTC. Even without a NTC, players kind of have that power anyways. They can refuse to report to a team they've been traded to for example, and it would be foolish for a team to trade a guy to a team he refuses to go to even if its within their right. A NTC just formally involves the player to determine who the team can use as a trading partner, that's the way I view them anyways. I don't think asking a player to waive a NTC necessarily poisons the water for all current and future players, its a reality of the business.

There can be a number of reasons why players would accept waiving their NTC, not just wanting to GTFO. If they are struggling under the system their team plays esp if a contract year is coming up; wanting to play for a contending team; wanting to play in a nicer city with better weather or tax savings; etc etc.

If you take the Luongo saga from the past, Lu never came out and asked to be traded outright yet he was expecting and wanting to be moved, MG never explicitly asked Lu to waive his NTC yet was wanting to move Lu. So something has to give, its a bit of a dance
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:12 PM   #10124
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door is wiiiiiiiideeee open for Schroeder, he's getting what he wants, a chance to prove his worth for his next contract

would be nice for Archibald to be called up and to destroy Hanzal in our next meeting
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:53 PM   #10125
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The only breaks this poor guy catches are broken jaws. Burrows will eventually score a goal before the end of the season.
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