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Old 06-28-2013, 09:59 AM   #1
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RCMP in alberta break into homes to seize firearms

?Hell to pay:? Residents angry as RCMP seize guns from High River homes (with video)

coles notes:

- town in alberta gets evacuated due to flooding

- rcmp use forced entry to houses that have firearms and seize them to "seize and secure them in a safe location"

- half the town is capable of moving back in, but rcmp refuse to let them in by putting check points and spike strips at entrances leading into town

- all guns will be returned after residents are allowed to move back in as long as they can provide proof of ownership....well...rifle registry no longer exists, so unless you have a receipt...how can you prove you own it??...and for many people who've been given guns from fathers/grandparents etc that weren't registered that have sentimental value, how will they ever get them back?


I think its kinda fucked up...all my guns are in a locked gun safe, and if a cop broke into my house so they could "secure them", id go fucking mental on them...

thoughts??
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:04 AM   #2
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:28 AM   #3
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:34 AM   #4
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I dunno... if there was looting...there would have been risk that guns could have been stolen.


Give back flood victims' guns, Harper's office tells RCMP - Politics - CBC News


Prime Minister Stephen Harper's office is urging the RCMP in High River, Alta., to focus on "more important" tasks and to return the guns officers took from homes they were searching for victims in the evacuated flood zone.

Harper's office issued a statement Friday morning in quick reaction to the news that the RCMP had taken some firearms that they said weren't stored properly in empty homes.

"If any firearms were taken, we expect they will be returned to their owners as soon as possible," the statement said. "We believe the RCMP should focus on more important tasks such as protecting lives and private property."

"We are expressing our view," a spokesman for Harper, Carl Vallee, said in an email when asked for comment about the statement.

The RCMP would not comment on the PMO's suggestions, and a spokesman for the High River detachment said the RCMP was acting in the interest of public safety.

"When RCMP officers were going door-to-door searching each residence for potential victims, we did come across a couple of residences where there were some firearms that were left insecure," Corp. Darrin Turnbull told CBC News in an interview.

"In those situations, when they were out in plain view and they were not properly secured and stored, those firearms were taken by the RCMP member and safely secured in the High River detachment."

Search was for victims, not guns

Turnbull said once people are allowed back in their homes, they can pick up their guns. He didn't know exactly how many firearms had been collected and emphasized that officers were not specifically searching for guns or going out of their way to find them.

"The RCMP were not searching houses looking for firearms. The RCMP were going into homes looking for victims. If while we were in that home looking for victims there was an insecured firearm that was out in the open, we had to take that firearm to make sure it was safe."

The Canadian Shooting Sports Association doesn't agree and says the RCMP had "breached and sullied their contract with the public to serve and protect."

"This act of aggression is further proof that the RCMP have a not-so-hidden agenda to take guns away from responsible gun owners," Tony Bernardo, head of the group, said in a release.

Bernardo said the RCMP overstepped its mandate and he's happy Harper's office has got involved in the matter.

"We are advised that the Prime Minister's Office will examine whether the rights of Canadians have been ignored by the police. I am confident that the federal government will deal swiftly with those who have portrayed Canada as a police state in the eyes of the of the world."
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:36 AM   #5
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it's not safe to enter high river yet and all the places are going to be ripe with disease. there are a few people who stayed despite the mandatory evacuation who can basically loot their neighbors.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:39 AM   #6
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The RCMP are even cutting into secured gun safes. I have heard one story that a guy has a 500lb safe with a video camera with a backup generator and filmed full video of the police cutting the safe open.....
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:41 AM   #7
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I'm sure looting their neighbors is the main reason for staying. Bob won't notice his tv on the wall when you invite him over for dinner.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:51 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Autorice View Post
it's not safe to enter high river yet and all the places are going to be ripe with disease. there are a few people who stayed despite the mandatory evacuation who can basically loot their neighbors.
I would rather have an asshole looter steal my firearms than have a police officer cut my safe open and take them for "security reasons". police are supposed to uphold the law, not break them.
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Old 06-28-2013, 10:58 AM   #9
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And there's no way in hell they're going to pay to replace the same... This is pretty messed up, if they're not letting people in or out of the city what's the danger of just leaving the firearms in the homes in the first place...
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:19 AM   #10
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Providing proof of ownership is a big, steaming pile of bullshit. Hopefully, they kept track of the guns they removed from each individual house. All a resident should need to get their guns back is proof of residence.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:23 AM   #11
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Half the town is not safe to return to. There are so many health issues that need to be dealt with before people can go back. Electricution, disease, air quailty are just a few of the health concerns that this town is dealing with.

I have collegues that had they opportunity to do a flyover and some suggest the whole town will have to be rebuilt. Once a basement is wet, mold becomes an issue and you pretty much have to gut it.
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:35 AM   #12
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im pretty sure you can complain/sue or w.e as this violates section 8 of the charter
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Old 06-28-2013, 11:58 AM   #13
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Risk of looting by criminals or not, you simply don't take private property from a disaster struck residence, the police are essentially looting homes, whether they intended to return the firearms or not.

Every second they waste collecting an inanimate object is a second they aren't searching for victims, what a fucking joke.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:01 PM   #14
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As much as I hate the US's attitude of 'guns=freedom' and all the messed up gun related..well, steaming pile of fucking shit that it causes, I really don't like Canada's any better where anyone wanting a gun is subjected more to being treated like a criminal than the criminals that already have guns.
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:30 PM   #15
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RCMP taking advantage of the flood to get rid of all the guns in the city.
I guess it's a fresh start now.

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Old 06-28-2013, 01:04 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Vicious View Post
im pretty sure you can complain/sue or w.e as this violates section 8 of the charter
Pretty sure eh? What if a state of emergency has been declared for a town/city/hamet as is the case for High River?

A state of emergency is a governmental declaration which usually suspends a few normal functions of the executive, legislative and judicial powers, alert citizens to change their normal behaviors, or order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It can also be used as a rationale for suspending rights and freedoms, even if guaranteed under the constitution. Such declarations usually come during a time of natural or man made disaster, during periods of civil unrest, or following a declaration of war or situation of international or internal armed conflict.

The federal government of Canada can use the Emergencies Act to invoke a state of emergency. A national state of emergency automatically expires after 90 days, unless extended by the Governor-in-Council. There are different levels of emergencies: Public Welfare Emergency, Public Order Emergency, International Emergency, and War Emergency.

Under the current Emergency Act a state of emergency can also be declared by provincial, territorial, and municipal governments. Since Canada's federal government and any of its provincial governments can suspend for five years at a time the Charter rights to fundamental freedoms in section 2, to legal rights in sections 7 through 14, and to equality rights in section 15 by a simple majority vote of the legislature which invokes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms' override clause, section 33, emergency powers can always be very easily created even without using the Emergency Act.
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:17 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by MR_BIGGS View Post
Pretty sure eh? What if a state of emergency has been declared for a town/city/hamet as is the case for High River?

A state of emergency is a governmental declaration which usually suspends a few normal functions of the executive, legislative and judicial powers, alert citizens to change their normal behaviors, or order government agencies to implement emergency preparedness plans. It can also be used as a rationale for suspending rights and freedoms, even if guaranteed under the constitution. Such declarations usually come during a time of natural or man made disaster, during periods of civil unrest, or following a declaration of war or situation of international or internal armed conflict.

The federal government of Canada can use the Emergencies Act to invoke a state of emergency. A national state of emergency automatically expires after 90 days, unless extended by the Governor-in-Council. There are different levels of emergencies: Public Welfare Emergency, Public Order Emergency, International Emergency, and War Emergency.

Under the current Emergency Act a state of emergency can also be declared by provincial, territorial, and municipal governments. Since Canada's federal government and any of its provincial governments can suspend for five years at a time the Charter rights to fundamental freedoms in section 2, to legal rights in sections 7 through 14, and to equality rights in section 15 by a simple majority vote of the legislature which invokes the Charter of Rights and Freedoms' override clause, section 33, emergency powers can always be very easily created even without using the Emergency Act.
From wki so take it with a grain of salt
Any temporary laws made under the Act are subject to the$Charter of Rights and Freedoms.Thus any attempt by the government to suspend the$civil rights$of Canadians, even in an emergency, will be subject to the "reasonable and justified" test under section 1 of the Charter
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid Vicious View Post
im pretty sure you can complain/sue or w.e as this violates section 8 of the charter
state of emergency son i got 99 problems but the charter ain't one



of course its more complicated than that but basically


edit: http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/pol/em/em_act-eng.aspx


edit2: and as we see in the story the reasoning to break-in was to search for people and the reasoning they gave for seizure is improper storage so really none of the above even matters
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Old 06-28-2013, 01:42 PM   #19
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im pretty sure you can complain/sue or w.e as this violates section 8 of the charter
Yes this is ridiculous, but as most gun owners know, the RCMP is legally allowed to enter your home without a warrant to check on your firearms. I guess this is all legal for “public safety” reasons.

Just as section 8 of the charter states we have the right to be secure from unlawful search and seizures, section 1 also states that there are limitations to all these rights and public safety is one of them. I guess the RCMP is using this argument to remove guns from evacuated homes so that they do not get stolen and used unlawfully.

However having said that, there are many past cases where gun owners have had their guns seized so that they can be verified by police. While seized, the police definitely do not care whatsoever how these firearms are handled. Many collectors have had their valuable/collectible guns damaged while in police custody.
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Old 06-28-2013, 07:59 PM   #20
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...but as most gun owners know, the RCMP is legally allowed to enter your home without a warrant to check on your firearms....
No, they can't. They need a warrant unless you "invite" them in. Gun owners need to know their rights and this is one of them. No warrant, no searches.
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Old 06-28-2013, 08:42 PM   #21
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No, they can't. They need a warrant unless you "invite" them in. Gun owners need to know their rights and this is one of them. No warrant, no searches.
Quote:
Inspections

The Firearms Act allows for periodic inspections of firearms collections. The main purpose of inspections is to ensure that all firearms in a collection can be accounted for and that the firearms are stored safely, as set out in the Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Individuals Regulations.

Before inspecting a firearm collection in a residence, inspectors must give reasonable notice and obtain consent or a warrant.
source: Firearm Collectors - Royal Canadian Mounted Police
source: Firearms Act
source: Firearms Act. (specific section number)
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