Saying grace/prayers in large public events inappropriate?

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

wouldn't "putting your head down" be considered "taking part"?

where was the respect for non-religious people?

dude was blindsided by this...especially considering it was work related.

How was he blindsided? Did they hold him down and force the Jesus right into him?

They had a prayer. Work places don't have to be secular.

[dinamix]

Illuminati
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[godwin]

It is a private ie invite only event right?

Their event, their rules.

If you don't like it, you can walk out; I assume no one put a gun to your head?

Next time say "and most of all, we thank you for fast cars"

[observer]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

What do you think?

I was at a large golf tournament a few weeks back for a construction supply company and after the tournament they introduced a man who was a beneficiary of some of the money raised, the man in charge of the whole thing then asked everyone to follow him in a prayer and saying grace before the dinner

I'm about as atheist as they come and wanted no part, so being reasonably polite i sat there through the whole thing, id say about 30-40% of people may have hung their heads in prayer yadayadya

at the end a few women at another table kind of gave me a stink eye, dont know if it was cause i didn't hang my head or refused to say "amen" or what but i felt insulted that i would be looked upon like that and in the end i felt the whole situation was pretty ignorant on the part of the hosts..

considering the whole party of about 120-165 people were made up of a huge mix of ethnicity's, backgrounds, etc. I felt it was completely inappropriate to have such a prayer especially considering this event was completely unrelated ..

Completely inappropriate and of very poor taste in my books.

[predom]

By refusing to hang your head you looked like an asshat. Just stfu and go with it. You atheists are worse than catholics, always trying to prove your point.
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[LiquidTurbo]

Saying grace is annoying for athiests.

Thanks to the farmers, the vegetable pickers, the slaughterhouse workers, the truck drivers, the delivery people, the grocery store owners, the grocery store cashiers, the people who made the plastic bags, petroleum engineers and gas station owners, people who make stoves, people who made cutlery, the napkin making people, Jesus the mexican farmer, the people who delivers electricity, the cooks, whew.. it just gets to be a mouthful.

Pretty jealous of those who can simply attribute their food to a single deity.

[Graeme S]

When I was a lad, I was raised Christian (Anglican to be specific); as I got older, I kind of outgrew it since there was nobody who could really answer my faith-based questions, and everyone basically said "You just have to believe". Very annoying.

As I entered my late teens and early twenties I got very frustrated with a lot of the 'godliness' that we keep in our modern culture despite it supposedly being secular. I used to get offended at things like the JWs who would come around and on the back of their pamphlet it said "We said a prayer for you before we knocked at your door" and all that. I got all indignant; "Who says that your prayers will help me? Who says we believe in anything even remotely close to the same thing?"

But. I've mellowed out in my old age. I started thinking about my hypocrisy and double standards regarding religion. When it came to non-christian rites, I viewed what they were doing as a sign of respect; they were willing to extend their cultural values to me. Whereas I found Christians just being pushy--but this was my own internal bias.

Saying a prayer doesn't constitute evangelism. Constantly telling you that you can't be a good person without going to church does. When it comes time for someone to say a prayer, or ask for a moment of contemplation or what have you, then just acknowledge that this time is important for them. There's no need for you to participate in it at all, just acknowledge their desire for reassurance or what have you.

[smaggs]

Jessie says grace - YouTube

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by sdubfid

unrelated: who pays for churches? I've seen some pretty pimp churches that would cost millions built recently

People who attend the church pay a tithe, ie. A donation to the church.
This supports the church expenses. Everything is by donation.
At my church, some people donate between $1-$500 every Sunday.

Edit: I realized I didn't answer your question. For new churches, organizations fund raise money or the new church is an upgrade from an older church. All churches rely of donations from people. Though, Catholic churches get money from the Vatican. Somee of the bigger churches in thegvrr have huge budgets and collect tons of money in tithes.
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[parm104]

Originally Posted by sdubfid

unrelated: who pays for churches? I've seen some pretty pimp churches that would cost millions built recently

Churches are businesses. They're handled and operated as one. Some are independent while others are apart of a conglomerate of churches as one big organization. Fundraising and donations are the most common forms of receiving money as well as personal sponsorships given by individual members affiliated with the church.

[gars]

I have a few religious friends, and they say generally devoted people will donate 5-10% of their income to the church.

[flagella]

rofl, grow a thicker skin.

[Soundy]

Originally Posted by MG1

I was at Eagle Motorplex in Ashcroft a few weeks back. It was a big IHRA event. Mid day, they stop for lunch, but just before that, the announcer starts to go into prayer. After that, they play the Stars and Stripes. All the racers were then invited to the church service at the track the following morning (Sunday).

Ever watch NASCAR on TV? Last thing before "Gentleman, Start Your Engines" is the anthem and a prayer over the PA system for 100,000+ people (and however many millions more don't mute the sound on TV). Don't think I've heard many complaints about it or people being "offended" by it. Or maybe they're just afraid of pissing off the Jesus-lovin', shotgun-totin' good ol' boys.

Ever been to a CFL game? Right after every game, the players from both teams gather for a group prayer in the middle of the field, usually upwards of half of them. Not once have I ever heard of anyone watching being "offended" by this, finding it "inappropriate", or out-of-place, despite being about as public as you can get.

Originally Posted by 4444

If its a host, or a guest of a host, or someone well respected, or whatever, give them the 2 mins of respect, look down, ride it out (as you did).

This. It's a simple thing: you're in someone else's "house", you follow their rules/procedures/rituals. They want you to take off your shoes at the door, nobody is FORCING you do - you do it out of respect. They want to say grace before dinner, it's not gonna kill you to respect it.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

i think its just pretty insensitive to other religions especially when looking at the room the amount of different races attending the event almost certainly are of a different religion if they are affiliated with one

The thing is, pretty much all religions have prayers of thanksgiving, believe in at least one God, respect Jesus as an important figure and teacher if nothing else... and oddly, most other religions are more respectful of Christianity than Christianity is of them. There's nothing stopping those of other religions in a situation like this from offering their own silent prayers to their own God(s). For that matter, there's nothing stopping the atheists from taking advantage of the 15s to go over their shopping list for later, or do some mental gymnastics, or whatever else they want to occupy themselves with.

Originally Posted by rsx

I've been in the same situations with company functions, personally, it's offensive since I attended a work function NOT a religious one. Though, I am respectful. I don't get up and leave or make a scene, but I don't hang my head and close my eyes. I just sit there. I've been glared at several times, and to be honest, it's fucking annoying.

[tiger_handheld]

Originally Posted by parm104

Churches are businesses. They're handled and operated as one. Some are independent while others are apart of a conglomerate of churches as one big organization. Fundraising and donations are the most common forms of receiving money as well as personal sponsorships given by individual members affiliated with the church.

I would not say churches are a business - some people on the forums might take it too literally. Businesses are usually driven by profit; buy low sell high.

Not for profit organizations , what churches are categorized as - have the goal of breaking even and must spend XX% of "donations received" on charitable activities.

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I would not say churches are a business - .

oh man, don't kid yourself. religion is big business.

[bloodmack]

the only religion that should exist out there should be common sense. there is no god only our perceived reality and reality itself. You are allowed to believe whatever you want and express it wherever you want even if you are told you cannot. It is an expression of the freedom we have had since we were born.

[parm104]

Originally Posted by tiger_handheld

I would not say churches are a business - some people on the forums might take it too literally. Businesses are usually driven by profit; buy low sell high.

Not for profit organizations , what churches are categorized as - have the goal of breaking even and must spend XX% of "donations received" on charitable activities.

...Isn't that Catholic church worth BILLIONS of dollars!?

I know it's a far-fetched example, but it's TRUTH. My religion included, relies on large donations to run their operations. There are political and financial motivations behind all these institutions. There's nothing wrong with that, in theory, but it's important to recognize that is how churches are run rather than thinking that they're built and run solely on the kindness of people's hearts. Priests get paid, housed and compensated for their services, infrastructures needs to be built to support the growing number of people and a need for expansion costs a lot of money. This is how businesses work.

[MG1]

Ticket to Heaven - Dire Straits

"To the man with the diamond ring."

DIRE STRAITS LYRICS - Ticket To Heaven

[MG1]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

oh man, don't kid yourself. religion is big business.

Yup, just look up Aga Khan.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Soundy

Not once have I ever heard of anyone watching being "offended" by this, finding it "inappropriate", or out-of-place, despite being about as public as you can get.

I never get offended by that stuff. I just find it interesting. I go to MRP a lot and have never witnessed anything like it. That's all.

[stewie]

merry Christmas


are you offended by that as well? or would you prefer me to say "happy holidays" while you unwrap your presents on Christmas day? (I know, not everyone celebrates Christmas, but ill bet 90%+ of the people here do)

isn't it a day(originally) where you celebrate Jesus' "birthday"? I dunno...but it seems pretty hypocritical to me that you can celebrate and take part in that, yet find a prayer at a dinner inappropriate..

[Ulic Qel-Droma]

^
to add on that...

I think people are forgetting they live in north america. which was basically founded by jesus christ himself after he got kicked outta england.

we live in a christian dominant culture.

if this were asia, you'd be expected to tolerate taoist/buddhist rituals.

if this were the middle east, you'd be expected to tolerate islamic rituals.

but no... this is north america. you are expected to tolerate christian rituals.

like stewie says... you celebrate christmas. you take easter holidays. etc.

you live on a continent paved by christians.



i aint no christian lover, don't get me wrong. I think they're the biggest cult on the planet.

but i have to respect the fact that I live in their land.


or else soon, what, the indians, the chinese, and all immigrants will start to bitch when we sing oh canada.
u can sure as hell bet, many immigrants here don't consider themselves "canadian". they don't give two shits about singing oh canada. but they still stand up when its time to "sing".

when its time to "say a prayer". just look down at your feet and like others have said, think about what you're going to jerk off to on xhamster later that night.


it's just about respect.
just cuz you're an italian mobster doesn't mean you can't respect triad syndicate traditions right?

you might not agree with them, but you're in their territory, surrounded by them.



random out of date fact:
#1 land owner in the world is the catholic church.

#2 is... drum roll... mcdonalds.

in fact, mcdonalds could be #1 in the world now.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by dinosaur

oh man, don't kid yourself. religion is big business.

Agree! How do you think church pay for all the maintance, property tax, bills. Why do you think they charge thousands of dollars when you want to perferm a cermeory inside a church? Or take donations every Sunday?

As for the OP. I would think is inapporiate thae these women would stare down at you. I am is not with or against any regilon and there are friends who beleive in God and try to get me to convert. Simply I just told them I am not interested and most of them do respect that.

[Great68]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I do't think it was completely ignorant, in that some people handle that 'portion' of the religion differently.

Most see it as they are helping the people they care about, if they are able to convert them to religion. MOST will not continue to try over and over, but in my experience it almost always comes up at least once. The good people will respect you if you turn them down, the annoying ones will keep at it. That's a good way to determine who the true friends are.

You're absolutely right. I hate preachy Christians too. But you're far more likely to get this attitude from other Christian denominations (IE: Jehovans, Evangelicals, etc) than from Catholics.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma

^
to add on that...

I think people are forgetting they live in north america. which was basically founded by jesus christ himself after he got kicked outta england.

we live in a christian dominant culture.

if this were asia, you'd be expected to tolerate taoist/buddhist rituals.

if this were the middle east, you'd be expected to tolerate islamic rituals.

but no... this is north america. you are expected to tolerate christian rituals.

like stewie says... you celebrate christmas. you take easter holidays. etc.

you live on a continent paved by christians.



i aint no christian lover, don't get me wrong. I think they're the biggest cult on the planet.

but i have to respect the fact that I live in their land.


or else soon, what, the indians, the chinese, and all immigrants will start to bitch when we sing oh canada.
u can sure as hell bet, many immigrants here don't consider themselves "canadian". they don't give two shits about singing oh canada. but they still stand up when its time to "sing".

when its time to "say a prayer". just look down at your feet and like others have said, think about what you're going to jerk off to on xhamster later that night.


it's just about respect.
just cuz you're an italian mobster doesn't mean you can't respect triad syndicate traditions right?

you might not agree with them, but you're in their territory, surrounded by them.



random out of date fact:
#1 land owner in the world is the catholic church.

#2 is... drum roll... mcdonalds.

in fact, mcdonalds could be #1 in the world now.

These "Christians" didn't respect the fact that Native Americans were on this land first.

It doesn't matter that they 'paved' the way or whatever you said.

Things change. I fully support people standing up rituals like saying grace being mocked for not holding the head down and saying 'Amen'. To me it's the same as fighting the "Christian" definition of marriage.

We got rid of prayers in school, are you suggesting that we bring it back for respect? Since according to you we are 'surrounded' by Christians?


Please.