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Old 09-03-2013, 01:44 AM   #26
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Are you serious!?!? I'll leave the first part (freedom of ppl to move freely, open business, do international business - not perfect, but it's no commie state as it was)

North Korea, population 24m, most would reintegrate the two koreas (south korea would give them all passports in a second), but even if all went to china, it's a blip on their population, so I don't buy your second point one iota
South Korea will absolutely not give North Koreans "passports in a second", even if they were to reintegrate. I know from your other posts you're not ignorant, so I'll try and clarify this misconception.

The standard of living between both countries is so so far apart now it would financially ruin SK. GDP and GNP will plummet, and the economy will be in absolute ruin. But this is recoverable in the long term.

What isn't, is the cultural differences. We've been at war for 50 years now. It's a little less to the current generation, but the previous generation in SK, as well as the entirety of NK is taught since childhood that the opposite are enemies. Suddenly you're supposed to live together, work together, and just be friends?

It's not going to work like that.

(Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic, but we may as well turn this into another NK debate.)
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:13 AM   #27
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Old 09-03-2013, 06:24 AM   #28
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:48 PM   #29
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South Korea will absolutely not give North Koreans "passports in a second", even if they were to reintegrate. I know from your other posts you're not ignorant, so I'll try and clarify this misconception.

The standard of living between both countries is so so far apart now it would financially ruin SK. GDP and GNP will plummet, and the economy will be in absolute ruin. But this is recoverable in the long term.

What isn't, is the cultural differences. We've been at war for 50 years now. It's a little less to the current generation, but the previous generation in SK, as well as the entirety of NK is taught since childhood that the opposite are enemies. Suddenly you're supposed to live together, work together, and just be friends?

It's not going to work like that.

(Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic, but we may as well turn this into another NK debate.)
i'm not sure i agree, i've spent some time in korea, and the general feeling i get from koreans i know is that they all want to integrate. at that, any that escape get south korean passports in a short matter of time (usually at the korean consulate in... is it thailand, i forget which country they go to) - perhaps that information has been misleading, but from what i know...

i would imagine if push comes to shove that the south korean government would come out with an offer to reunify the two koreas under 1 country, 1 passport, 1 economy - if we could get rid of their leadership. they'd know it'd be an economic hit to take on 50% of their population (25m in north vs. 50M in south) who are effectively uneducated by the south's standards (or majority poorly educated) - however, south korea does have an issue with labour, they need some low priced labour, but have had a very low inward immigration practise - this would fix this, but with too much labour influx. but i don't doubt they'd take the hit to rejoin families, communities, and what was 1 nation up until 60 odd years ago.

it's all very sad, all of this
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:16 PM   #30
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i'm not sure i agree, i've spent some time in korea, and the general feeling i get from koreans i know is that they all want to integrate. at that, any that escape get south korean passports in a short matter of time (usually at the korean consulate in... is it thailand, i forget which country they go to) - perhaps that information has been misleading, but from what i know...

i would imagine if push comes to shove that the south korean government would come out with an offer to reunify the two koreas under 1 country, 1 passport, 1 economy - if we could get rid of their leadership. they'd know it'd be an economic hit to take on 50% of their population (25m in north vs. 50M in south) who are effectively uneducated by the south's standards (or majority poorly educated) - however, south korea does have an issue with labour, they need some low priced labour, but have had a very low inward immigration practise - this would fix this, but with too much labour influx. but i don't doubt they'd take the hit to rejoin families, communities, and what was 1 nation up until 60 odd years ago.

it's all very sad, all of this
Interesting points, but a lot of them are based upon perspectives and opinions of "outsiders". Meaning absolutely no offense, having spent some time in Korea is not going to give you any sort of insight on how Koreans operate. Unless you're Korean yourself, they will usually say polite things and things perceived as acceptable to foreigners - it's just the way our culture is based.

I'm not sure if it's in the constitution, or just on humanitarian grounds, but North Korean refugees are indeed given SK passports relatively easily. These are the ones that run to China, travel through SE Asia and end up at a Korean embassy or consulate. There are also ones that come directly to SK, either by water or even by land (like last year, when NK soldiers knocked on the window of a SK army post - a lot of hubbub around that one.)

That's not the end though. Most NKoreans speak with a distinct NK accent, and are instantly discriminated upon within SK society. Perhaps because of their status, but also because SKoreans largely believe they may be spies. (My point with early childhood education from previous post.)

Most defectors still live in poverty in South Korea. They may not be oppressed, but it's not all unicorns and flowers for them down south either. Rarely, some of them defect BACK to NK because of the discrimination they face. Then this fuels the notion that all defectors are spies further, and it's just a downward spiral.

Here's an article (Sorry, it's hard to find English articles.)
North Korean Defector, Disappointed By South, Wants To Go Back

South Korea does indeed have a problem with labour. That's why there are a large number of Pakistani, Bangladesh, and Chinese/Korean workers. They too are not taken with open arms as most of them are illegal aliens, and also a big source of crime. Such ongoing problems have inadvertently classified "labourers" as unfavourable.

The current and previous parties in power have had a strong stance towards NK. The two previous to those, did not. They enacted something called the "Sunshine Policy" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunshine_Policy), that essentially funded the NK state with food and money, and were very generous to them. Perhaps as a result, NK now has nuclear weapons, and alleged spies deep within SK. (See article 'Pro-North' Lawmaker Attacks Korean National Anthem - koreaBANG - this guys was recently arrested for conspiring against his country; treason really.)

As more of these stories surface, the distrust and rift is actually growing larger. Reunification, while ideal on paper and humane (such as rejoined familes, etc.,), is such a massive headache realistically I don't think anyone has an answer.

But I agree 100% it's terribly sad.

P.S. - Sorry for these long posts, but this topic kinda hits home for me. My grandparents both came to South Korea in a small wooden boat in the middle of the night a few years after the armistice; I also personally know a family that defected relatively recently.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:37 PM   #31
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Korean myself and I can agree with all your points.
There's a reason why NK refugees in SK don't reveal that they're north koreans-not only for security reasons but because of discrimination. They have a strong accent and of course use different vocabularies so a lot of the times they lie that they're Chosun which are Koreans from China. SK's are pretty racist towards Chosun but they'd prefer them over NK's. And like inv4zn pointed out a lot of SK's still believe that NK refugees are spies. My grandparents still think some SK politicians are spies and absolutely despise them.
As sad as this sounds I disagree that SK and NK should reunite. SK children are taught to wish for reunion blah blah but realistically speaking NK ppl would go through so much discriminations and racism. A lot of Koreans upfront say that reunion should occur. But I strongly doubt that's what they really think. Most SK's don't hate NK's. They just know what's gonna happen realistically if reunification were to happen.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:16 PM   #32
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it's sad that they're prejudice against the north koreans, i remember being in a restaurant, and one of the server ajumas was clearly from the chinese border with korea, as she had a thick accent (not being a speaker of korean past ajuma, ajjusi, and the odd other word, i didn't pick up on it) - was interesting that it was brought to my attention (i was just looking forward to yummy korean bbq on coals - not over flame like we get here)

i hope that we see unification in my lifetime - though i am a european, i had family fight in the korean war, so it means something to me too, just from a different perspective - i also hate to see people unfairly treated on such a large and disgusting scale - they don't deserve it.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:30 PM   #33
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as i much i as hate this fat ass, i dont think he should die as then north korean would go crazy
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:45 PM   #34
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:10 PM   #35
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From an economic standpoint, SK cannot reunite with NK, and allow the people to roam freely without division, as that will pose an economic suicide for the South.

They will need to implement a policy that will be similar to that of China on Hong Kong to bridge the social and economic gap. In NK/SK's case, it's far more severe, which may take much longer than 50 years for geographic reunification.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:32 PM   #36
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From an economic standpoint, SK cannot reunite with NK, and allow the people to roam freely without division, as that will pose an economic suicide for the South.

They will need to implement a policy that will be similar to that of China on Hong Kong to bridge the social and economic gap. In NK/SK's case, it's far more severe, which may take much longer than 50 years for geographic reunification.
I'm sure they said the same thing in Germany. There still are issues, but its amazing how quickly people come together.

And China/HK was more political/cultural more than economic.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:54 PM   #37
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Old 09-05-2013, 11:26 AM   #38
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She was luckier than Kim Chol, vice minister of the army, who was executed with a mortar round in October 2012.
So, did they aim it at him?
Or maybe make the guy sit on the mortal while remotely detonating it?

I just can't wrap my head around the logistics of this. It seems like a lot of effort to take someone out. You have to commend the fat little guy's imagination though.

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