You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
"US police shoot and kill 13-year-old boy with toy rifle"
Quote:
Police in San Francisco shot and killed a 13-year-old boy who was carrying a toy assault rifle, the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office said.
The teen with the gun was reported about 3 p.m. on Tuesday near the corner of Moorland and West Robles avenues, sheriff’s Lt. Dennis O’Leary said.
Two Sonoma County deputies found the boy, later identified as Andy Lopez, walking with the fake gun and repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.
It was not immediately clear what prompted officers to open fire, hitting Lopez multiple times.
The teenage boy was declared dead at the scene.
After gunning down the boy, officers secured the rifle only to discover that it was make of plastic. Lopez was also found to have a plastic handgun tucked into his pants.
The deputies involved in the incident have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation. They have not been identified.
The incident was the third time in 24 hours a law enforcement officer has shot and killed someone in the Bay area.
About 28,000 people have been killed by guns in the US since the massacre of 26 elementary school students and teachers in Newtown, Conn., last December, according to The Slate's estimate based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The massacre ignited a passionate debate on gun-control in America, but the issue has not been resolved yet.
__________________ The size of your success is measured by the strength of your desire;
The size of your dream; and how you handle disappointment along the way.
Don't parents teach their children when raising them that its common sense not to wave and point replica/toy guns at anyone whether real or not.
Ugh, I'm not sure where you grew up but as a kid, I loved playing pretend with my friends/brother where we'd be secret agents or what have you and shoot each other.
I mean, if this isn't the case for most kids, why do we even have toy guns to begin with?
WTF is the kid doing with that and another one tucked in his pants anyway? And to not drop them when asked... I don't know the whole story but it doesn't seem like innocent children playing cops and robbers to me..
__________________
If you drive like an asshole, you probably are one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1
punkwax, I don't care what your friends say about you, you are gold!
Tragic, but I'm not sure what the kid or people expected to happen when he was walking around with a replica gun in public that could be mistaken for an authentic firearm and ignoring police commands to drop the rifle.
Quote:
(CBS News) An investigation continues Wednesday morning outside of Santa Rosa, Calif., after a 13-year-old was shot and killed by a sheriff's deputy. He was carrying a toy rifle that resembled an AK-47.
The boy's parents, Rodrigo and Sujey Lopez, said they can't believe their 13-year-old son, Andy, is gone. They said he was walking in his neighborhood Tuesday afternoon, returning the toy rifle to a friend, when two sheriff's deputies tried to detain him.
"A witness in the area reported that he heard the deputy shout two times, 'Put the gun down, put the gun down,'" said Lt. Paul Henry of the Santa Rose Police Department.
Andy's father told CBS News' Carter Evans that Andy always "respected" cops and he doesn't know why he would not have listened.
A sheriff's spokesperson says the boy ignored the directive to drop the gun.
"As the subject was turning toward him, the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction," Henry said.
One of the officers shot multiple rounds, at least one of which hit Andy.
"The deputies approached the subject, handcuffed him and immediately began life-saving measures," Henry said.
Andy died at the scene, and the deputies involved have been put on administrative leave.
At a press conference, law enforcement officers displayed the confiscated toy rifle, compared with an actual AK-47. One witness saw the boy walking with the fake gun before he was shot.
"I couldn't tell that he was 13 years old," said Ronald Armstrong. "He did not appear to be 13 years old. It looked like a weapon."
Friends say Andy was liked at school, where he played in the band. They set up a makeshift memorial expressing disbelief that such a tragic mistake could happen.
"He was a really good friend of mine ... now he's gone," said Elijah Garcia.
Andy's father told The (Santa Rosa) Press Democrat that he remembers his last words to his son.
"I told him what I tell him every day," he said. "Behave yourself."
I only answer to my username, my real name is Irrelevant!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: CELICAland
Posts: 25,677
Thanked 10,395 Times in 3,918 Posts
Failed 1,390 Times in 625 Posts
kid was probably freaked the hell out seeing 2 cops with guns pointed at him yelling and he probably didn't react fast enough for the police and got shot or he tried to explain "its just a toy" and i bet and the cops were too stupid and scared to act calmly and shot him multiple times
Again, the word "assault rifle" being thrown around, this time defining a TOY.
Standard practice for an officer is to calmly confront the man/woman carrying such an object, and to determine;
1. Is it a real firearm, and does the owner have a valid open carry license? (in states where it's applicable).
2. If it is not a real firearm, to either confiscate it or ask that it be stored in a closed container.
3. In states where open carry is not legal, and it is a real firearm, to ask that he or she surrender the weapon immediately. Only after the subject shows a clear intent to use deadly force is the firing of an officer's weapon allowed.
Even in the worst case scenario, shooting a boy 13 times?
To add a bit of clarity to the issue, our federal laws outline that any "firearm" that is incapable of firing a projectile at a speed greater than 500fps is not a firearm at all, furthermore, owning such a "firearm" is not subject to any licensing or registration (allowing that it has the orange tip). With the exception of municipal guidelines, holstering such a "firearm" is legal, though it is considered to be severely taboo in urban areas. This is not to say that the police would be wrong in stopping you in your tracks for doing so, but it would also be completely illegal for them to fire on you for simply having one on you.
Last edited by Yodamaster; 10-24-2013 at 12:18 PM.
Again, the word "assault rifle" being thrown around, this time defining a TOY.
Standard practice for an officer is to calmly confront the man/woman carrying such an object, and to determine;
1. Is it a real firearm, and does the owner have a valid open carry license? (in states where it's applicable).
2. If it is not a real firearm, to either confiscate it or ask that it be stored in a closed container.
3. In states where open carry is not legal, and it is a real firearm, to ask that he or she surrender the weapon immediately. Only after the subject shows a clear intent to use deadly force is the firing of an officer's weapon allowed.
Even in the worst case scenario, shooting a boy 13 times?
This thread is about an awful tragedy, it's so preventable it's awful. I agree with one of the above posters that these types of awful mistaken identity cases are not isolated and there are few reasons to make a hyper-realistic replica but lots of good reasons why not to.
With that said, the post I quoted is absolutely retarded. Police officers are justified in defending themselves if they feel their health is in jeopardy and having a realistic looking replica semi-automatic machinegun whirled towards you does not give you the luxury of waiting to see if it's real. A real AK47 is capable of shooting almost 2 bullets per SECOND - if it took 10 seconds to figure out if it was real or fake which is pretty quick at a distance, they could have 20 bullets coming in their direction.
And he definitely wasn't shot 13 times anywhere that I can see... it says "multiple shots were fired" but I don't think that it says 13?
Mark
__________________ I'm old now - boring street cars and sweet race cars.
This thread is about an awful tragedy, it's so preventable it's awful. I agree with one of the above posters that these types of awful mistaken identity cases are not isolated and there are few reasons to make a hyper-realistic replica but lots of good reasons why not to.
With that said, the post I quoted is absolutely retarded. Police officers are justified in defending themselves if they feel their health is in jeopardy and having a realistic looking replica semi-automatic machinegun whirled towards you does not give you the luxury of waiting to see if it's real. A real AK47 is capable of shooting almost 2 bullets per SECOND - if it took 10 seconds to figure out if it was real or fake which is pretty quick at a distance, they could have 20 bullets coming in their direction.
And he definitely wasn't shot 13 times anywhere that I can see... it says "multiple shots were fired" but I don't think that it says 13?
Mark
The situation you just outlined is the worst case scenario, and does not apply to what steps officers are otherwise mandated to follow.
If a weapon is drawn at an officer, fake or not, the officer has the right to open fire.
13 was for dramatic effect, you don't have to shoot a boy multiple times, even if you're faced with a worst case scenario.
If you still don't believe that police officers have to act in the way I specified, take a look at this douchebag.
Two Sonoma County deputies found the boy, later identified as Andy Lopez, walking with the fake gun and repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.
Quote:
"As the subject was turning toward him, the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction," Henry said.
This is the definition of a hostile situation... ignoring demands to drop it and then turning it towards officers. If the guy in the above video you posted had turned and aimed it at the police with unknown intentions he would have gotten shot as well.
Mark
__________________ I'm old now - boring street cars and sweet race cars.
This is the definition of a hostile situation... ignoring demands to drop it and then turning it towards officers. If the guy in the above video you posted had turned and aimed it at the police with unknown intentions he would have gotten shot as well.
Mark
?
I was clearly aware of why it's allowed in my first post, but it doesn't change the fact that they shot a child multiple times for carrying and aiming (and I know it wouldn't matter) a toy gun.
Again, the word "assault rifle" being thrown around, this time defining a TOY.
Standard practice for an officer is to calmly confront the man/woman carrying such an object, and to determine;
1. Is it a real firearm, and does the owner have a valid open carry license? (in states where it's applicable).
2. If it is not a real firearm, to either confiscate it or ask that it be stored in a closed container.
3. In states where open carry is not legal, and it is a real firearm, to ask that he or she surrender the weapon immediately. Only after the subject shows a clear intent to use deadly force is the firing of an officer's weapon allowed.
An AK47 in it's stock form is NOT LEGAL anywhere in the states. It's manufactured as a full automatic.
Willing to sell a family member for a few minutes on RS
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: North vancouver
Posts: 13,341
Thanked 33,764 Times in 7,978 Posts
Failed 228 Times in 176 Posts
"About 28,000 people have been killed by guns in the US since the massacre of 26 elementary school students and teachers in Newtown, Conn., last December, according to The Slate's estimate based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
Ummm holy fucking christ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodamaster
?
I was clearly aware of why it's allowed in my first post, but it doesn't change the fact that they shot a child multiple times for carrying and aiming (and I know it wouldn't matter) a toy gun.
Hand guns fire bullets fast, and you can be sure 16 shots are easy to get fired off before you even realize your target has dropped. Police are trained to shoot to kill. The amount of bullets has no relevance.
__________________
98 technoviolet M3/2/5
Quote:
Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
Quote:
Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
The situation you just outlined is the worst case scenario, and does not apply to what steps officers are otherwise mandated to follow.
If a weapon is drawn at an officer, fake or not, the officer has the right to open fire.
13 was for dramatic effect, you don't have to shoot a boy multiple times, even if you're faced with a worst case scenario.
If you still don't believe that police officers have to act in the way I specified, take a look at this douchebag.
There is one major difference in the situation you outlined and the youtube video and what happened in the Andy Lopez situation, the way the rifle was being carried. If the firearm (real or replica) was holstered or carried in a non threatening manner (like in the youtube video, shoulder strapped onto his back), then yes, the officers need to take the time to make that determination.
However Lopez was carrying the replica rifle in his hand and lifted the barrel of the rifle towards the officers after receiving multiple verbal commands to drop the rifle. Likely Lopez was flustered or shocked and just swung around in an unfortunate manner with the barrell towards the officers.
One witness reported three shots were fired, that is not excessive at all. You are trained to fire center mass at the subject until the subject goes down, I've personally witnessed subjects take up to 6 rounds before they stop advancing or go down.
This is just a really tragic set of circumstances and unfortunate set of events for all involved.
Ugh, I'm not sure where you grew up but as a kid, I loved playing pretend with my friends/brother where we'd be secret agents or what have you and shoot each other.
I mean, if this isn't the case for most kids, why do we even have toy guns to begin with?
Stories like these aren't that uncommon, its always a preventative measure my parents took raising my brother and I. It was always "don't bring anything or point anything at anyone that look like it could be mistaken for a weapon". Better safe than sorry. Even toy guns with orange caps can be mistaken for a real gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoon
As a parent. Fuck replicas. Just stick with nerf guns.
LOL even then new nerf guns are getting pretty close to being shaped like real guns. Minus the colour schemes.
you don't have to shoot a boy multiple times, even if you're faced with a worst case scenario.
You don't need to shoot a "boy" multiple times? Even if he's pointing an automatic rifle at you??
You stop to shoot the threat. Simple as that. A shot to the chest might not kill him, giving him enough time to pull the trigger and launch a few rounds.
Now consider that scenario, the cop shoots and the kid gets taken down to his knees. He fires a few rounds and it hits a passing car driven by a loved one of yours. Would you not then blame the police for not taking down the "boy" quicker?
Actually saw a video of some crazed man in some court room. He pulls out a pistol and makes some demands, after that he fires one round at someone. An officer appears from behind and shoots him. The crazed man gets hit in the back/leg and goes down, he unloads the 7 or 8 shots of his clip into the crowd before taking his own life.
"About 28,000 people have been killed by guns in the US since the massacre of 26 elementary school students and teachers in Newtown, Conn., last December, according to The Slate's estimate based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
Ummm holy fucking christ.
28000? I'm not so sure about that... is that including suicides? Cause suicides account for over 60% of all firearm deaths.
Also, according to the CDC which you just quoted as your source, there was only 11078 firearm homicides in 2010, you're telling me in first 10 months of 2013 that number almost tripled?
28000? I'm not so sure about that... is that including suicides? Cause suicides account for over 60% of all firearm deaths.
Also, according to the CDC which you just quoted as your source, there was only 11078 firearm homicides in 2010, you're telling me in first 10 months of 2013 that number almost tripled?
We riding around with guns the size of Lil' Bow Wow
What you know about AK's and AR-15's
Equipped with night vision, shell catchers and inf beams, huh?
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
