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Old 10-24-2013, 11:47 AM   #1
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"US police shoot and kill 13-year-old boy with toy rifle"

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Police in San Francisco shot and killed a 13-year-old boy who was carrying a toy assault rifle, the Sonoma County Sheriff's Office said.


The teen with the gun was reported about 3 p.m. on Tuesday near the corner of Moorland and West Robles avenues, sheriff’s Lt. Dennis O’Leary said.

Two Sonoma County deputies found the boy, later identified as Andy Lopez, walking with the fake gun and repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.

It was not immediately clear what prompted officers to open fire, hitting Lopez multiple times.

The teenage boy was declared dead at the scene.

After gunning down the boy, officers secured the rifle only to discover that it was make of plastic. Lopez was also found to have a plastic handgun tucked into his pants.

The deputies involved in the incident have been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of an investigation. They have not been identified.

The incident was the third time in 24 hours a law enforcement officer has shot and killed someone in the Bay area.

About 28,000 people have been killed by guns in the US since the massacre of 26 elementary school students and teachers in Newtown, Conn., last December, according to The Slate's estimate based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The massacre ignited a passionate debate on gun-control in America, but the issue has not been resolved yet.

PressTV - US police shoot and kill 13-year-old boy with toy rifle

Sigh... Murica.. =.=
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #2
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Aren't replica/airsoft guns supposed to have colored tips to prevent these kind of incidents?
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:52 AM   #3
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:52 AM   #4
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The gun looked pretty realistic, and didn't have the painted muzzle to indicate it was a toy:
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:56 AM   #5
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Don't parents teach their children when raising them that its common sense not to wave and point replica/toy guns at anyone whether real or not.
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:59 AM   #6
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Don't parents teach their children when raising them that its common sense not to wave and point replica/toy guns at anyone whether real or not.
Ugh, I'm not sure where you grew up but as a kid, I loved playing pretend with my friends/brother where we'd be secret agents or what have you and shoot each other.

I mean, if this isn't the case for most kids, why do we even have toy guns to begin with?
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:01 PM   #7
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WTF is the kid doing with that and another one tucked in his pants anyway? And to not drop them when asked... I don't know the whole story but it doesn't seem like innocent children playing cops and robbers to me..
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:01 PM   #8
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Tragic, but I'm not sure what the kid or people expected to happen when he was walking around with a replica gun in public that could be mistaken for an authentic firearm and ignoring police commands to drop the rifle.

Quote:
(CBS News) An investigation continues Wednesday morning outside of Santa Rosa, Calif., after a 13-year-old was shot and killed by a sheriff's deputy. He was carrying a toy rifle that resembled an AK-47.

The boy's parents, Rodrigo and Sujey Lopez, said they can't believe their 13-year-old son, Andy, is gone. They said he was walking in his neighborhood Tuesday afternoon, returning the toy rifle to a friend, when two sheriff's deputies tried to detain him.

"A witness in the area reported that he heard the deputy shout two times, 'Put the gun down, put the gun down,'" said Lt. Paul Henry of the Santa Rose Police Department.

Andy's father told CBS News' Carter Evans that Andy always "respected" cops and he doesn't know why he would not have listened.

A sheriff's spokesperson says the boy ignored the directive to drop the gun.

"As the subject was turning toward him, the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction," Henry said.

One of the officers shot multiple rounds, at least one of which hit Andy.

"The deputies approached the subject, handcuffed him and immediately began life-saving measures," Henry said.

Andy died at the scene, and the deputies involved have been put on administrative leave.

At a press conference, law enforcement officers displayed the confiscated toy rifle, compared with an actual AK-47. One witness saw the boy walking with the fake gun before he was shot.

"I couldn't tell that he was 13 years old," said Ronald Armstrong. "He did not appear to be 13 years old. It looked like a weapon."

Friends say Andy was liked at school, where he played in the band. They set up a makeshift memorial expressing disbelief that such a tragic mistake could happen.

"He was a really good friend of mine ... now he's gone," said Elijah Garcia.

Andy's father told The (Santa Rosa) Press Democrat that he remembers his last words to his son.

"I told him what I tell him every day," he said. "Behave yourself."

© 2013 CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Andy Lopez, teen killed carrying toy rifle, "respected" police, father says - CBS News
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:02 PM   #9
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As a parent. Fuck replicas. Just stick with nerf guns.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #10
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kid was probably freaked the hell out seeing 2 cops with guns pointed at him yelling and he probably didn't react fast enough for the police and got shot or he tried to explain "its just a toy" and i bet and the cops were too stupid and scared to act calmly and shot him multiple times

something along those lines
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:58 PM   #11
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:06 PM   #12
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Again, the word "assault rifle" being thrown around, this time defining a TOY.

Standard practice for an officer is to calmly confront the man/woman carrying such an object, and to determine;

1. Is it a real firearm, and does the owner have a valid open carry license? (in states where it's applicable).

2. If it is not a real firearm, to either confiscate it or ask that it be stored in a closed container.

3. In states where open carry is not legal, and it is a real firearm, to ask that he or she surrender the weapon immediately. Only after the subject shows a clear intent to use deadly force is the firing of an officer's weapon allowed.


Even in the worst case scenario, shooting a boy 13 times?




To add a bit of clarity to the issue, our federal laws outline that any "firearm" that is incapable of firing a projectile at a speed greater than 500fps is not a firearm at all, furthermore, owning such a "firearm" is not subject to any licensing or registration (allowing that it has the orange tip). With the exception of municipal guidelines, holstering such a "firearm" is legal, though it is considered to be severely taboo in urban areas. This is not to say that the police would be wrong in stopping you in your tracks for doing so, but it would also be completely illegal for them to fire on you for simply having one on you.

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:14 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodamaster View Post
Again, the word "assault rifle" being thrown around, this time defining a TOY.

Standard practice for an officer is to calmly confront the man/woman carrying such an object, and to determine;

1. Is it a real firearm, and does the owner have a valid open carry license? (in states where it's applicable).

2. If it is not a real firearm, to either confiscate it or ask that it be stored in a closed container.

3. In states where open carry is not legal, and it is a real firearm, to ask that he or she surrender the weapon immediately. Only after the subject shows a clear intent to use deadly force is the firing of an officer's weapon allowed.

Even in the worst case scenario, shooting a boy 13 times?
This thread is about an awful tragedy, it's so preventable it's awful. I agree with one of the above posters that these types of awful mistaken identity cases are not isolated and there are few reasons to make a hyper-realistic replica but lots of good reasons why not to.

With that said, the post I quoted is absolutely retarded. Police officers are justified in defending themselves if they feel their health is in jeopardy and having a realistic looking replica semi-automatic machinegun whirled towards you does not give you the luxury of waiting to see if it's real. A real AK47 is capable of shooting almost 2 bullets per SECOND - if it took 10 seconds to figure out if it was real or fake which is pretty quick at a distance, they could have 20 bullets coming in their direction.

And he definitely wasn't shot 13 times anywhere that I can see... it says "multiple shots were fired" but I don't think that it says 13?

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:22 PM   #14
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This thread is about an awful tragedy, it's so preventable it's awful. I agree with one of the above posters that these types of awful mistaken identity cases are not isolated and there are few reasons to make a hyper-realistic replica but lots of good reasons why not to.

With that said, the post I quoted is absolutely retarded. Police officers are justified in defending themselves if they feel their health is in jeopardy and having a realistic looking replica semi-automatic machinegun whirled towards you does not give you the luxury of waiting to see if it's real. A real AK47 is capable of shooting almost 2 bullets per SECOND - if it took 10 seconds to figure out if it was real or fake which is pretty quick at a distance, they could have 20 bullets coming in their direction.

And he definitely wasn't shot 13 times anywhere that I can see... it says "multiple shots were fired" but I don't think that it says 13?

Mark

The situation you just outlined is the worst case scenario, and does not apply to what steps officers are otherwise mandated to follow.
If a weapon is drawn at an officer, fake or not, the officer has the right to open fire.

13 was for dramatic effect, you don't have to shoot a boy multiple times, even if you're faced with a worst case scenario.



If you still don't believe that police officers have to act in the way I specified, take a look at this douchebag.


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Old 10-24-2013, 01:32 PM   #15
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Two Sonoma County deputies found the boy, later identified as Andy Lopez, walking with the fake gun and repeatedly ordered him to drop what appeared to be a rifle before firing several rounds.
Quote:
"As the subject was turning toward him, the barrel of the assault rifle was rising up and turning in his direction," Henry said.
This is the definition of a hostile situation... ignoring demands to drop it and then turning it towards officers. If the guy in the above video you posted had turned and aimed it at the police with unknown intentions he would have gotten shot as well.

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Old 10-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #16
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This is the definition of a hostile situation... ignoring demands to drop it and then turning it towards officers. If the guy in the above video you posted had turned and aimed it at the police with unknown intentions he would have gotten shot as well.

Mark
?

I was clearly aware of why it's allowed in my first post, but it doesn't change the fact that they shot a child multiple times for carrying and aiming (and I know it wouldn't matter) a toy gun.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodamaster View Post
Again, the word "assault rifle" being thrown around, this time defining a TOY.

Standard practice for an officer is to calmly confront the man/woman carrying such an object, and to determine;

1. Is it a real firearm, and does the owner have a valid open carry license? (in states where it's applicable).

2. If it is not a real firearm, to either confiscate it or ask that it be stored in a closed container.

3. In states where open carry is not legal, and it is a real firearm, to ask that he or she surrender the weapon immediately. Only after the subject shows a clear intent to use deadly force is the firing of an officer's weapon allowed.
An AK47 in it's stock form is NOT LEGAL anywhere in the states. It's manufactured as a full automatic.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:44 PM   #18
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"About 28,000 people have been killed by guns in the US since the massacre of 26 elementary school students and teachers in Newtown, Conn., last December, according to The Slate's estimate based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
Ummm holy fucking christ.
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?

I was clearly aware of why it's allowed in my first post, but it doesn't change the fact that they shot a child multiple times for carrying and aiming (and I know it wouldn't matter) a toy gun.
Hand guns fire bullets fast, and you can be sure 16 shots are easy to get fired off before you even realize your target has dropped. Police are trained to shoot to kill. The amount of bullets has no relevance.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:45 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodamaster View Post
The situation you just outlined is the worst case scenario, and does not apply to what steps officers are otherwise mandated to follow.
If a weapon is drawn at an officer, fake or not, the officer has the right to open fire.

13 was for dramatic effect, you don't have to shoot a boy multiple times, even if you're faced with a worst case scenario.



If you still don't believe that police officers have to act in the way I specified, take a look at this douchebag.

AK47 Open Carry: Stopped by the Cops - YouTube
There is one major difference in the situation you outlined and the youtube video and what happened in the Andy Lopez situation, the way the rifle was being carried. If the firearm (real or replica) was holstered or carried in a non threatening manner (like in the youtube video, shoulder strapped onto his back), then yes, the officers need to take the time to make that determination.

However Lopez was carrying the replica rifle in his hand and lifted the barrel of the rifle towards the officers after receiving multiple verbal commands to drop the rifle. Likely Lopez was flustered or shocked and just swung around in an unfortunate manner with the barrell towards the officers.

One witness reported three shots were fired, that is not excessive at all. You are trained to fire center mass at the subject until the subject goes down, I've personally witnessed subjects take up to 6 rounds before they stop advancing or go down.

This is just a really tragic set of circumstances and unfortunate set of events for all involved.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:57 PM   #20
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Ugh, I'm not sure where you grew up but as a kid, I loved playing pretend with my friends/brother where we'd be secret agents or what have you and shoot each other.

I mean, if this isn't the case for most kids, why do we even have toy guns to begin with?
Stories like these aren't that uncommon, its always a preventative measure my parents took raising my brother and I. It was always "don't bring anything or point anything at anyone that look like it could be mistaken for a weapon". Better safe than sorry. Even toy guns with orange caps can be mistaken for a real gun.

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As a parent. Fuck replicas. Just stick with nerf guns.
LOL even then new nerf guns are getting pretty close to being shaped like real guns. Minus the colour schemes.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:01 PM   #21
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you don't have to shoot a boy multiple times, even if you're faced with a worst case scenario.
You don't need to shoot a "boy" multiple times? Even if he's pointing an automatic rifle at you??
You stop to shoot the threat. Simple as that. A shot to the chest might not kill him, giving him enough time to pull the trigger and launch a few rounds.

Now consider that scenario, the cop shoots and the kid gets taken down to his knees. He fires a few rounds and it hits a passing car driven by a loved one of yours. Would you not then blame the police for not taking down the "boy" quicker?

Actually saw a video of some crazed man in some court room. He pulls out a pistol and makes some demands, after that he fires one round at someone. An officer appears from behind and shoots him. The crazed man gets hit in the back/leg and goes down, he unloads the 7 or 8 shots of his clip into the crowd before taking his own life.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:05 PM   #22
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"About 28,000 people have been killed by guns in the US since the massacre of 26 elementary school students and teachers in Newtown, Conn., last December, according to The Slate's estimate based on data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."
Ummm holy fucking christ.

28000? I'm not so sure about that... is that including suicides? Cause suicides account for over 60% of all firearm deaths.

Also, according to the CDC which you just quoted as your source, there was only 11078 firearm homicides in 2010, you're telling me in first 10 months of 2013 that number almost tripled?

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Old 10-24-2013, 02:25 PM   #23
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28000? I'm not so sure about that... is that including suicides? Cause suicides account for over 60% of all firearm deaths.

Also, according to the CDC which you just quoted as your source, there was only 11078 firearm homicides in 2010, you're telling me in first 10 months of 2013 that number almost tripled?

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he was quoting the article in the op.
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Old 10-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #24
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Man.. that toy gun looks real.
RIP little boy.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:43 PM   #25
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