Disputing Traffic Ticket for Illegal U-turn

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by wix

Thanks for everyone's replies. I talked to the enforcing officer's supervisor today and he stated that even though I used the driveway of the business lot, it is still considered a U-turn. But he mentioned that that is their intepretation of the MVA, so I can dispute it and see what the judge says. He told me that I can discuss options with the enforcing officer (like what ancient_510 said, I may ask the officer to rewrite my ticket to be against me as the registered owner instead of the operator so that I do not get demerit points). And also pay a reduced fee as well. So I will be disputing the ticket

Thanks again everyone!

Bear in mind that just because you go to court thinking you want the ticket amended to the RO and a reduced fine, the officer may not agree. Personally, I would not amend the ticket to the RO unless the driver pleads guilty to the offence. If you are going to walk in thinking you will get the ticket reduced, amended to the RO, AND fight the allegation.........

You can always ask the officer if he had given tickets in that area in the past and had to fight it in court. Worth a try. Because if he has and won, at least you won't be wasting your time.

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

Look, I wasn't there.. I don't know how careful or careless you where in the maneuver, but here are 2 things to consider that may help you:

1: The "no u-turn" sign is there because there is a curve in the road past the sign, whereby it would be unsafe to perform a u-turn. There is no curve in the road at the place you performed the u-turn. The sign is beyond, and takes effect beyond, where you performed the turn.

2: You turned left into a drive way. It is legal to turn left into that driveway. You then turn right out of the driveway, which is also legal. That is VERY DIFFERENT from doing a 3-point turn in the middle of the road.

I'm not saying what you did was legal or safe, I wasn't there, but based on how you explained your side of the story, and how I interpret it with the above facts, you might have a case to dispute the ticket.

good luck, and try to drive safe in the future!

I agree it is a bit of a grey area. I would actually like to see what the judge says in this incident. I did find the sign a bit further ahead from where he conducted the u turn as well. But from the drawing it is hard to tell how far the sign really was. As for the turn he made being "defined" as a u turn, under the MVA it was a U turn. The MVA is vague as to what a U turn is. It does not mention whether you had to remain on the main street, or if the turn had to be a three point turn or not.

[wing_woo]

Originally Posted by wix

Do you guys think I should dispute the allegation or the fine?

I care more about the demerit points than anything. 2 points and $121 for doing a U-turn on an empty side street =\

Originally Posted by wix

Thanks for all the replies! I don't mind paying the ticket. But yeah, I thought it was a grey area since I did pull into the entrance of the lot and then turned right back out. I waited for a few cars to go past before I turned right, back onto the road. If I performed the U-turn on the actual road itself, I wouldn't be able to do that as I would have been blocking oncoming traffic.

Just thought I'd point out that you said you did a U-turn on an empty side street, yet you later said you had to wait for a few cars to go past.

Anyways, I'd dispute it. You can call the officer and talk to him now. Don't need to wait till court. Ask him now while it may still be fresh in his mind. That way he may decide to plead no contest at court if he decides that what you are saying makes sense and decides not to pursue further. Good luck.

[wix]

Originally Posted by wing_woo

Just thought I'd point out that you said you did a U-turn on an empty side street, yet you later said you had to wait for a few cars to go past.

Anyways, I'd dispute it. You can call the officer and talk to him now. Don't need to wait till court. Ask him now while it may still be fresh in his mind. That way he may decide to plead no contest at court if he decides that what you are saying makes sense and decides not to pursue further. Good luck.

When you turn right onto that street, you have the choice of going all the way down, following the cul-de-sac and back out (the legal way). 1-2 cars did that, while I turned right into that street a little later and did a U-turn utilizing that drive way of the business lot. Once I completed the U-turn and was about to turn right out of the driveway, they were on their way back from the cul-de-sac, so I let them go.

I am going to dispute for a reduced fine, and hopefully the officer will agree to amend the ticket to the RO. His supervisor said it shouldn't be a problem, as they were stationed in that area not to catch dangerous drivers or speeding, but because they are trying to reduce the amount of people using that area to bypass the traffic going on the Alex Fraser. All the no left turns, no u-turns signs, are all there not for safety reasons, but to make it more inconvenient for commuters to use that route for the reason stated earlier.

Hope that makes sense lol

[sebberry]

Here's the "No U Turn" sign on street view. If it's in the same place still, it's past the driveway the OP made the U turn in. http://goo.gl/maps/OgJqH

Here's the MVA section on "Reverse Turn"

Reverse turn
168 Except as provided by the bylaws of a municipality or the laws of a treaty first nation, a driver must not turn a vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite direction

(a) unless the driver can do so without interfering with other traffic, or,

(b) when he or she is driving

(i) on a curve,

(ii) on an approach to or near the crest of a grade where the vehicle cannot be seen by the driver of another vehicle approaching from either direction within 150 m,

(iii) at a place where a sign prohibits making a U-turn,

(iv) at an intersection where a traffic control signal has been erected, or

(v) in a business district, except at an intersection where no traffic control signal has been erected.

My interpretation is that the posted sign applies only to the road which it is posted on. "Business district" doesn't appear to be defined in the MVA.

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by zulutango

So does that mean everybody is into handcuffs, whips & chickens??????

You guys might get a kick out of handcuffs, but it's no laughing matter for the guy who just had his perfectly clean driver's licence tarnished for the rest of his natural born life for performing a perfectly safe maneuver in a parking lot.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by sebberry

You guys might get a kick out of handcuffs, but it's no laughing matter for the guy who just had his perfectly clean driver's licence tarnished for the rest of his natural born life for performing a perfectly safe maneuver in a parking lot.

from the street view, the sign seems to be posted on the closest light post, which can be seen easily by a driver coming up towards the parking lot entrance.

OMG. A Traffic violation on his driver's abstract... What will he do? He may never be able to find a job, or even cross the border!!!!

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by sebberry

Here's the "No U Turn" sign on street view. If it's in the same place still, it's past the driveway the OP made the U turn in. http://goo.gl/maps/OgJqH

Here's the MVA section on "Reverse Turn"




My interpretation is that the posted sign applies only to the road which it is posted on. "Business district" doesn't appear to be defined in the MVA.

The area is obviously a "business district". There is also a sign. The only thing OP could possibly fight is whether his actions was a U turn, even if he left the main road and entered part of the parking lot.

[zulutango]

Originally Posted by sebberry

You guys might get a kick out of handcuffs, but it's no laughing matter for the guy who just had his perfectly clean driver's licence tarnished for the rest of his natural born life for performing a perfectly safe maneuver in a parking lot.

Geeeeeeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzz....I hate it when I have to explain punchlines to someone. Maybe if I had added a rimshot?

[meme405]

Originally Posted by sebberry

You guys might get a kick out of handcuffs, but it's no laughing matter for the guy who just had his perfectly clean driver's licence tarnished for the rest of his natural born life for performing a perfectly safe maneuver in a parking lot.

you are lucky you can't get a fail in the police forum, cause you really missed the joke...

[nsx042003]

is Annacis Island part of Vancouver? Where did I read that the bylaws of Vancovuer makes all U turn illegal? What of Burnaby, Richmond, NEw West, Coquitlam, etc? arg...I'm starting to hate BC driving laws....

As me coming from NS, U-turns are only illegal when there's a sign prohibiting it.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by nsx042003

is Annacis Island part of Vancouver? Where did I read that the bylaws of Vancovuer makes all U turn illegal? What of Burnaby, Richmond, NEw West, Coquitlam, etc? arg...I'm starting to hate BC driving laws....

As me coming from NS, U-turns are only illegal when there's a sign prohibiting it.

Mitchell Island is part of Richmond. Technically it is a business district so U turns are prohibited.

A quick google search for Vancouver Bylaws:

LIMITATIONS ON "U" OR REVERSE TURNING
38.
(1)
No driver of any vehicle shall turn such vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite
direction:
(a)
On any through street.
(b)
Within an intersection at any corner of which a "Stop" sign has
been
placed, or where a traffic
-
control signal has been installed.
(c)
At any other intersection unless such movement can be made in safety,
without backing, and without interfering with other traffic.
(d)
On any street between intersecting streets.
(e)
At any lane intersection

So basically it appears you can only conduct a U turn in Vancouver unless you hit a dead end lol.

I am guessing a lot of the bylaws for Vancouver were made because of downtown Vancouver.... It is a bit confusing when a city has traffic bylaws AND the MVA. Bylaws are usually there to supplement what isn't covered under Federal and Provincial Statutes.

Personally, I wish Richmond had some of the Bylaws Vancouver does.

[ninjatune]

It's Annacis Island which is in Delta, but the offense is a motor vehicle act offense (in this case) although I'm sure there's a Delta bylaw that also would apply.

[Rich Sandor]

Originally Posted by Spidey

So basically it appears you can only conduct a U turn in Vancouver unless you hit a dead end lol.

No, read it again:

A quick google search for Vancouver Bylaws:

LIMITATIONS ON "U" OR REVERSE TURNING
38.
(1)
No driver of any vehicle shall turn such vehicle so as to proceed in the opposite
direction:
(a)...
(b)...
(c)...
At any other intersection unless such movement can be made in safety,
without backing, and without interfering with other traffic.
(d)...
(e)...

You can still make a U-turn at an uncontrolled intersection.

[Spidey]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

No, read it again:



You can still make a U-turn at an uncontrolled intersection.

touche

[sebberry]

Originally Posted by Spidey

from the street view, the sign seems to be posted on the closest light post, which can be seen easily by a driver coming up towards the parking lot entrance.

Sure, but the U-turn occurred in the driveway, not the road where the sign was posted.

If there's a speed limit of 30 posted, does that apply to all the roads that cross the road where the limit is posted, or just the road where the limit is posted?