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Old 02-18-2014, 06:49 PM   #26
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there is a reason why they are called locusts, they come in swarms and take away your resources

its not just food; hospitals and schools are also resources being taken away

ask someone from sheung shui how they feel about mainlanders, they have it the worst
But how is that the mainlanders fault? That sounds more like an governmental regulatory issue.

If you have something that people want, its only natural people will swarm to it. Mainlander or not.

If there is truly not enough supplies, hospitals or even food to go around. That sounds like its up to the government to regulate and bring in more resources.

I, however do not think this is the case. I think this is just an excuse for the average joes in Hong Kong to blame the mainlanders for their misfortune or inconvenience.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:53 PM   #27
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nothing against mainlanders, but they do have a bigger tendancy to swarm stuff they want. take toilet paper on sale as an example. everyone needs it, but mostly you see mainlanders swarming for that as opposed to anyone else.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:54 PM   #28
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Are there no rules that prevents non-permanent resident from enrolling their children in school?

Something similar to Vancouver where you can only go to schools in your area or it's very difficult to do cross-boundary (I think that has changed though).
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:56 PM   #29
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nothing against mainlanders, but they do have a bigger tendancy to swarm stuff they want. take toilet paper on sale as an example. everyone needs it, but mostly you see mainlanders swarming for that as opposed to anyone else.
That's not an mainlander issue. That's an individual's upbringing issue. It just so happens a number of mainlanders that share this swarm mentality. I've seen Hong Kongers and other nationality/enthic groups do the exact same thing. When you were brought up poor and hungry for the last few generations, you tend to behave like that. To get what you can, when you can.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:02 PM   #30
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That's not an mainlander issue. That's an individual's upbringing issue. It just so happens a number of mainlanders that share this swarm mentality. I've seen Hong Kongers and other nationality/enthic groups do the exact same thing. When you were brought up poor and hungry for the last few generations, you tend to behave like that. To get what you can, when you can.
up-bringing is everything. That's how you get rid of racism and stereotypes etc.. Put kids into a room, young kids, none of them will care what colour or ethnicity they are, just that they're different from one another. Kindergarten playground for example. Just want to kick a ball around <- little derps and derpettes
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:03 PM   #31
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That's not an mainlander issue. That's an individual's upbringing issue. It just so happens a number of mainlanders that share this swarm mentality. I've seen Hong Kongers and other nationality/enthic groups do the exact same thing. When you were brought up poor and hungry for the last few generations, you tend to behave like that. To get what you can, when you can.
well, there you go.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:10 PM   #32
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well, there you go.
Yes and?

That's still not an legitimate reason.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:16 PM   #33
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So in other words main-landers are coming in with money to hong kong and people from hk are complaining because they have it better than everywhere else in china because of previous british rule. Well im sorry to tell you but they're all Chinese at the end of the day. Thats pretty much the same as when everyone in the summer goes to kelowna / that area from vancouver for vacation. Pretty retarded if you ask me ... this comment is what made me laugh = "I think the government should listen to our voice seriously. It has to stop allowing Chinese tourists into Hong Kong We do not want them." What a bunch of pompous pricks. You're ALL Chinese, live with it.
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Saying HK people don't consider themselves Chinese ? ..well guess what why not form an independent nation then from the get go instead of going back to chinese rule.

I'm sorry but does HK belong to china ? = yes ... its inevitable that china wants to make hk more like the rest of china they're communist gov what do you expect. The only way to seperate is to some how become your own country. North and South korea = 2 different countries. Best comparison is Quebec wanting to form its own country from Canada. Quebec has different laws criminal and civil. Biggest difference from us and china? we arn't communist and wish to impose english all over quebec, we just let them be and live in their own little world. However they still are Canadian when it comes down to it.
1). Ethnicity does not equate Nationality.
2). Quebec is very different from the rest of Canada and is only that way because of the history in how our nation was formed and because they fought for it.
3). Quebecers are still Canadians, but everyone who has interacted with them know they do not consider themselves to be the same "Canadians" as the rest us. They are proudly French Canadians, Francophones.
4). A very large percentage of French Canadians still believe Quebec should be a sovereign nation, even now. "Letting them be and live their own little world" hasn't changed that.
5). Despite all of us being Canadians, French Canadians will be very upset/angry if they find out you don't speak/understand French (even if they know you're from the west coast). But we're all Canadians, why can't they just live with it?
6). North Korea and South Korea are two nations because of WWII. They didn't just one day decide to separate and call it a day.
7). How long did it take for Canada to form independence from Britain?
8). How long did it take for USA to form independence from Britain? How many lives were lost?
9). HK did not have a choice in whether it returned to PRC
10). PRC would never let HK just pack up and leave

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I never said it would be easy to form your own nation
What should they do then to form their own nation?
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #34
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No care for personal hygiene. Adults spitting everywhere. Parents taking their kids out for a potty break using a garbage can on a street or other public area. Example: There was a story last year about a mother taking her kid for a pee in a garbage can in Richmond centre mall. Mainland Chinese? Perhaps.

No fashion sense: A friend from Hong Kong has told me that he has seen a guy wearing a suit and a pair of slippers, while using a wheelbarrow to do construction work in China. Seriously.

Questionable taste in terms of modifying their cars.
While I can understand why the Hong Kong people are upset and I can relate, I had to laugh because what you described about mainlanders is exactly how I see the honger crowd/type here in Vancouver. I'm chinese myself and I refuse to go to Richmond unless its to the airport and I've had many confrontations locally with hongers here in Vancouver over their manners and interactions with others in public.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:20 PM   #35
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good thing my family flew us out of HK when i was still a kid. I did not have to experience this mainland takeover

to put it simply, the hongers are mad because their lifestyle is slowly and steadily being taken over by mainlanders

i am by no means an expert on the hong kong sequence events, i only visit every now and then. but i know enough hongers and have enough relatives in HK so this is what i got from it:

1. HK being returned to China, with promises of "10 years no change"

2. slowly the china government is reforming the SAR

3. mainlanders, people whom the hongers have always looked down upon, are slowly being granted passage into the city

4. these mainlanders eventually being a significant portion of the HK population, and accompanying them are their distasteful habits which hongers have ALWAYS looked down upon (pooping peeing in public, horrible sounding mandarin, being rude)

5. because of this, mandarin has also become one of the city's main languages, which used to be purely cantonese

6. honger lives are forever changed due to the actions of the china government



and its not exactly like vancouver either, the mainlanders in vancouver i'd say are more well-behaved. poor mainlanders are able to go into HK, however it is more difficult for them to come to vancouver

GG HK
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:21 PM   #36
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1). Ethnicity does not equate Nationality.
2). Quebec is very different from the rest of Canada and is only that way because of the history in how our nation was formed and because they fought for it.
3). Quebecers are still Canadians, but everyone who has interacted with them know they do not consider themselves to be the same "Canadians" as the rest us. They are proudly French Canadians, Francophones.
4). A very large percentage of French Canadians still believe Quebec should be a sovereign nation, even now. "Letting them be and live their own little world" hasn't changed that.
5). Despite all of us being Canadians, French Canadians will be very upset/angry if they find out you don't speak/understand French (even if they know you're from the west coast). But we're all Canadians, why can't they just live with it?
6). North Korea and South Korea are two nations because of WWII. They didn't just one day decide to separate and call it a day.
7). How long did it take for Canada to form independence from Britain?
8). How long did it take for USA to form independence from Britain? How many lives were lost?
9). HK did not have a choice in whether it returned to PRC
10). PRC would never let HK just pack up and leave



What should they do then to form their own nation?
Maybe you should go talk to a politician and ask them, OBVIOUSLY I have no idea how to form your own nation. Why are you even asking me to answer that like im supposed to know the steps and ways to become your own nation
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:24 PM   #37
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PRC gov't didn't keep their words? how shocking!
on a serious note i didn't realize the Basic Law was only valid for 50 years

how come then it seems more immigrants from Hong Kong living in Canada has moved back since 97? Or is it simply that mass migration from Mainland China made it appear the local 'HK population' is dwindling?
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:38 PM   #38
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1). Ethnicity does not equate Nationality.
2). Quebec is very different from the rest of Canada and is only that way because of the history in how our nation was formed and because they fought for it.
3). Quebecers are still Canadians, but everyone who has interacted with them know they do not consider themselves to be the same "Canadians" as the rest us. They are proudly French Canadians, Francophones.
4). A very large percentage of French Canadians still believe Quebec should be a sovereign nation, even now. "Letting them be and live their own little world" hasn't changed that.
5). Despite all of us being Canadians, French Canadians will be very upset/angry if they find out you don't speak/understand French (even if they know you're from the west coast). But we're all Canadians, why can't they just live with it?
6). North Korea and South Korea are two nations because of WWII. They didn't just one day decide to separate and call it a day.
7). How long did it take for Canada to form independence from Britain?
8). How long did it take for USA to form independence from Britain? How many lives were lost?
9). HK did not have a choice in whether it returned to PRC
10). PRC would never let HK just pack up and leave



What should they do then to form their own nation?
I'm not sure if you're likening the situation of HK-China with other countries like Canada or US, but I don't think they're apples to apples.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the land that HK occupies right now does belong to China (or government of China), so HK does indeed not have a choice whether HK (or at least the land) is returned to PRC.

In terms of leaving, maybe PRC would never let HK just pack and leave, but the citizens definitely had a choice and chance to leave HK before it was returned to HK, ie immigrate to Canada. These people took their chances as well because there's no guarantee what's life going to be like across the globe. Some manage to survive, some pay a price for coming here (bad job prospects, or not being able to find a job in the same profession).

I do agree that nationality and ethnicity are two different things. But for China/Chinese, for a long period of time, or till this past decade, nationality = ethnicity for China/Chinese.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:41 PM   #39
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The problem that HK has with PRC, from what I can observe during my business trips, is that HK people no longer have control over HK.

No matter how displeased they are with mainlanders, it's no longer up to them to adjust any immigration laws to prevent mainlanders from visiting/entering.

PRC basically took over, and started taking away the "democracy" part of HK, by replacing it with a central government, which, whatever it says, counts.

When people can no longer make their opinion counts, democracy dies. This is what's happening in HK. HKers complain day-in-and-day-out; one sees it on every newspaper, every TV station. (the "democracy" part still allowed) And what PRC feels about it? Not a fuck given.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:43 PM   #40
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Why are you even asking me to answer that like im supposed to know the steps and ways to become your own nation
So you don't know. You also don't know the history, politics, and relations of PRC & HK (as well as Canada/Quebec). Granted, not everyone needs to know this stuff, but if you don't you shouldn't be making comments and suggestions like:

Quote:
What a bunch of pompous pricks. You're ALL Chinese, live with it.
Quote:
Saying HK people don't consider themselves Chinese ? ..well guess what why not form an independent nation then from the get go instead of going back to chinese rule.
Quote:
The only way to seperate is to some how become your own country. North and South korea = 2 different countries. Best comparison is Quebec wanting to form its own country from Canada. Quebec has different laws criminal and civil. Biggest difference from us and china? we arn't communist and wish to impose english all over quebec, we just let them be and live in their own little world. However they still are Canadian when it comes down to it.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:47 PM   #41
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I'm not sure if you're likening the situation of HK-China with other countries like Canada or US, but I don't think they're apples to apples.
Eurochevy was using Canada/Quebec and North Korea/South Korea as comparison. I am pointing out that they're not the same.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:04 PM   #42
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To the mainland Chinese and people of Hong Kong:

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Old 02-18-2014, 08:15 PM   #43
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At least Patten was right.
skip to 1:38


There was no way Hong Kong could ever be independent.

It's not even a self sustaining territory, Water, Power, and livestock originated from the mainland since the 80s.

There is no justification for granting them independence. Following the unfair treaties, New territories was to return to China in 1997; even then, the sovereignty of Hong Kong island itself was questionable. It was clear in the 70s that PRC will outright refuse any other option except for the peaceful return of HK. If Britain refused returning, China would just send her armies down and take over HK within a day. Falklands 2.0

Coming down to What ifs... If Britain did declare Hong Kong independent, would other nations recognize Hong Kong as a independent state? Can Hong Kong have it's own military force to protect and defend her national borders. Will the economy collapse due to mass exodus of funds?

Part 1 of 5, A BBC Doc about the politics of the turnover, you can clearly see there are some that are pro Hong Kong and others that are as long as there's money, who cares.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:17 PM   #44
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good thing my family flew us out of HK when i was still a kid. I did not have to experience this mainland takeover

to put it simply, the hongers are mad because their lifestyle is slowly and steadily being taken over by mainlanders

i am by no means an expert on the hong kong sequence events, i only visit every now and then. but i know enough hongers and have enough relatives in HK so this is what i got from it:

1. HK being returned to China, with promises of "10 years no change"

2. slowly the china government is reforming the SAR

3. mainlanders, people whom the hongers have always looked down upon, are slowly being granted passage into the city

4. these mainlanders eventually being a significant portion of the HK population, and accompanying them are their distasteful habits which hongers have ALWAYS looked down upon (pooping peeing in public, horrible sounding mandarin, being rude)

5. because of this, mandarin has also become one of the city's main languages, which used to be purely cantonese

6. honger lives are forever changed due to the actions of the china government



and its not exactly like vancouver either, the mainlanders in vancouver i'd say are more well-behaved. poor mainlanders are able to go into HK, however it is more difficult for them to come to vancouver

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Old 02-18-2014, 08:37 PM   #45
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Yes and?

That's still not an legitimate reason.
well, you answered it yourself. if a person's upbringing gives them the mentality to swarm, guess what, they will grow up and swarm no matter how others see it.

if you were born and raised and someone tells you 1+1=3. guess what, you will say 3 when someone asks you what 1+1 is. sure, people can tell you that you're wrong and that the right answer is 2. it's up to you to make that change. you can teach those people don't swarm and it's up to them to make that change themselves.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:44 PM   #46
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How bad is TST & MK now? ... to the point where you have to avoid them?

The last time I went back in 2010, I did not see much out of the oridinary besides the occasional circle squats in the middle of the mall.

Has Hong Kong really gotten that bad over the last 4 years? or just certain tourists areas of Hong Kong?
Certain areas (like the aforementioned) seem to get worse every year

Especially MK, since this month they stopped shutting down Sai Yeung Choi st, making it a pedestrian-only after 4pm. Now that they only do this on Sundays, it's a nightmare to go there during the week.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:49 PM   #47
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I'm not chinese, but I do see the lack of socially accepted behaviors from the "mainlanders".

excuse my ignorance? but cant there be a program or some sort of education movement to educated them on what's acceptable and what isn't?

ie. spitting, taking a piss in the public and not washrooms, just their general rude-ness?
cant there be a program that teaches kids manners in elementary school or signs in telling people not to urinate in public etc?
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:52 PM   #48
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But how is that the mainlanders fault? That sounds more like an governmental regulatory issue.

If you have something that people want, its only natural people will swarm to it. Mainlander or not.

If there is truly not enough supplies, hospitals or even food to go around. That sounds like its up to the government to regulate and bring in more resources.

I, however do not think this is the case. I think this is just an excuse for the average joes in Hong Kong to blame the mainlanders for their misfortune or inconvenience.
That's a good point, and that's the problem I have with groups like in the OP. You'll notice that in my posts, I have never complained about any particular group by nationality, in terms of complaints about certain areas being ruined by stampedes of tourists. Because it doesn't matter where they are from, the end result is all that matters. Tons of rude people with suitcases and cigarettes, taking up a lot of space, driving up prices, making all the good stores leave to be replaced by more luxury goods stores and cosmetics stores.

The inept government is allowing this to happen, and the greedy business people are taking advantage. The PRC sees this as a good thing, as they get a 'head start' to cultural integration. I don't know, but I think they must assume that Hong Kong will eventually "get used to it"... Either that, or it will be like Macau where the tourists outnumber the locals so much, that it might as well just be in mainland china.

People can be awesome or shitty, or anywhere in between, no matter where they are from. Generally things are done differently in certain parts of the world, and that may be unacceptable to some. So if you don't like Indian culture and the way things are done there, you just wouldn't live there. Same for mainland china.. if you don't like the way things are done there, you wouldn't move there. The problem here is, the people who don't like those aspects of that culture have no choice in the matter; "they" are moving in, like it or not. Just because you don't want to live in a certain culture, doesn't mean you are "looking down" on them, or are even an asshole. If you don't like it, you don't like it.

So who cares where the locusts are from? Ignore that issue. Ignore the claims of "jealousy" and other idiotic points people try to make. The fact is, people here are losing their home rapidly. Some will react like those in OP, others will see it as an opportunity to get rich, others will just crumble and lose their identity and culture, some will fight for democracy, and some will just get up and leave.

Also I just want to throw in that Hong Kong was never "returned to China", since PRC didn't exist when HK was formed, and "China" is just a land mass. It was "handed over" to the "Peoples Republic of China". Simply using "China" to describe the country "Peoples Republic of China" leads to this type of confusion. In shorthand, I guess it doesn't really matter, but when discussing this kind of thing, it's pretty important to make the distinction. This is what causes the confusion of being "returned to China".. well maybe it was returned to "China", but who is China? back then, it was the dynasty.. after that, it was the Republic of China. Now it's the Peoples Republic of China. It's basically just a land mass, so it would make more sense to refer to it as the nation.. either PRC, or "Mainland China" makes a lot more sense.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:59 PM   #49
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excuse my ignorance? but cant there be a program or some sort of education movement to educated them on what's acceptable and what isn't?
if they don't think it's a problem there, they dont think anything needs fixing.

"acceptable" is relative. what they consider acceptable may be unacceptable to us, and what we consider acceptable may be unacceptable to them.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:10 PM   #50
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So who cares where the locusts are from? Ignore that issue. Ignore the claims of "jealousy" and other idiotic points people try to make. The fact is, people here are losing their home rapidly. Some will react like those in OP, others will see it as an opportunity to get rich, others will just crumble and lose their identity and culture, some will fight for democracy, and some will just get up and leave.
If people (Hongers) lose their identity and culture, then what exactly defines a HK identity and culture? In what ways is it different from a China/Chinese identity and culture?

Are we talking about traditions, such as holidays (CNY), family/social values, etc.?
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