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Old 02-22-2014, 11:09 AM   #101
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^Thing is, on paper Mandarin and Cantonese, uses the same words (albeit grammar and slangs may be slightly different). Mandarin and Cantonese is how you read or say it.

The thing with the word "Chinese" is it can describe both ethnicity and nationality. It's different for say "Canadian", because it literally refers to being a citizen of Canada, but it tells nothing about that person's ethnicity. And by ethnicity we're talking about similar cultural and genetic background. On the other hand, I myself have never heard a non-Chinese (Caucasian for eg.) who's living in China refer to themselves as Chinese. Likewise for other Asian countries, ie Filipino, particularly people from China who immigrated there and became a legal citizen is called Chinese Filipino or Filipino Chinese.

Bottom line is, the useage of the nationality word carries different meaning around the world. In the case of Chinese, it can mean both, nationality, and ethnicity. Yes, it can be argue that people in Hong Kong don't think they share the same nationality as people in China or PRC. But are they (people in Hong Kong) genetically different enough to be recognized as a different ethnic group from people in China?

When people in Hong Kong say "We are not Chinese", are they saying, We are not citizens of PRC/China, or are they saying, we are not Chinese, period, meaning we and they don't share any genetic similarities.

edit: To add to the article that was posted, sure you have people who come up with these definitions of what language or dialect is, but it doesn't help with the fact they look the same. To non-Asian, would you be able to tell the difference between words written by someone from China, and Hong Kong, (and Taiwan)?
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Old 02-22-2014, 12:42 PM   #102
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Ethnicity is different than nationality. I'm Chinese but the way I've always thought about it is...if China ever declared war on Canada, I'd fight for Canada, not China. I'm Canadian first, just like these folks feel like they're HKers, not Chinese.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:00 PM   #103
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That's precisely what I'm trying to say. The word "Chinese" carries both nationality and ethnicity. I'm not saying they're the same, but can you separate the two within the word "Chinese" itself. Like you mentioned, you are Chinese by ethnicity, but nationality wise you're Canadian. But what do folks that go by the nationality of China call themselves? PRCers?

Again, ethnicity and nationality are different things, and I agree. But within the word "Chinese", its often use to describe both ethnicity and nationality. Just like Koreans. Or Japanese, the word can represent both nationality and ethnicity. It doesn't exist in Canada or US because they're collection of different ethnicity living together. But for some Asia countries, the nationality generally represents ethnicity as well.

Can you split those two things up, for Asia countries? What exactly are the HKers referring to when they say they are not Chinese?
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:29 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by reamemiya View Post
^Thing is, on paper Mandarin and Cantonese, uses the same words (albeit grammar and slangs may be slightly different). Mandarin and Cantonese is how you read or say it.

edit: To add to the article that was posted, sure you have people who come up with these definitions of what language or dialect is, but it doesn't help with the fact they look the same. To non-Asian, would you be able to tell the difference between words written by someone from China, and Hong Kong, (and Taiwan)?
Major correction here -- ignoring the difference between traditional and simplified characters, Mandarin and Cantonese are still quite different in both spoken and written forms. They use the same base character sets, but the meanings, pronunciation, and grammar are different enough that without having learned the languages themselves, a Mandarin speaker/writer wouldn't really understand a Canontese speaker/writer and vice versa.

Consider this for a minute: In Canada, we all know what a toque is. But to the rest of the English speaking world, it is more generally referring to a chef's hat. We have pencil crayons, but Americans call it "colored pencils" while the British call it "colouring pencils". Canadians, Americans, and British all use "rubber" on a daily basis, but hey, I think using the Canadian/American "rubber" is a lot more fun than using British "rubber".

Now, the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese are significantly bigger than how Canadian English, 'Murican English, and British English are different. As the economist article has pointed out, socially, Mandarin and Cantonese operate as 2 related, but completely different languages.

Legally, it is even easier for Hong Kong to prove that Cantonese is the official language of the city. At the law courts, either of the two official languages -- Chinese or English -- may be used. And yet, overwhelmingly, the form of spoken Chinese that gets used is almost always Cantonese. When Mandarin is used, a translator is required. If this doesn't establish Cantonese as the official Chinese language of the city, I don't know what will.

The Hong Kong education department was just being a dumba$$ when it published that Cantonese was "just a dialect" and not an official language of the city. And this is why a lot of Hong Kongers look down upon the ministers and officials -- it is bad enough that they are selling themselves out to Beijing, but it is worse when they take active measures to sell the entire Hong Kong out only a appease their Beijing masters. They are doing anything but looking our for Hong Kong's interests.

Edit: In reply to your edit section question -- "To non-Asian, would you be able to tell the difference between words written by someone from China, and Hong Kong, (and Taiwan)?", to ask that question is no different than asking a non-English speaking / reading person to distinguish between English, French, German, and Spanish. They all basically use the same character set! But of course, we know they are different languages. And that's exactly the same thing when it comes to Mandarin and Cantonese -- they are different languages, even though they are related in many ways.
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Old 02-22-2014, 02:05 PM   #105
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Major correction here -- ignoring the difference between traditional and simplified characters, Mandarin and Cantonese are still quite different in both spoken and written forms. They use the same base character sets, but the meanings, pronunciation, and grammar are different enough that without having learned the languages themselves, a Mandarin speaker/writer wouldn't really understand a Canontese speaker/writer and vice versa.

Consider this for a minute: In Canada, we all know what a toque is. But to the rest of the English speaking world, it is more generally referring to a chef's hat. We have pencil crayons, but Americans call it "colored pencils" while the British call it "colouring pencils". Canadians, Americans, and British all use "rubber" on a daily basis, but hey, I think using the Canadian/American "rubber" is a lot more fun than using British "rubber".

Now, the difference between Mandarin and Cantonese are significantly bigger than how Canadian English, 'Murican English, and British English are different. As the economist article has pointed out, socially, Mandarin and Cantonese operate as 2 related, but completely different languages.

Legally, it is even easier for Hong Kong to prove that Cantonese is the official language of the city. At the law courts, either of the two official languages -- Chinese or English -- may be used. And yet, overwhelmingly, the form of spoken Chinese that gets used is almost always Cantonese. When Mandarin is used, a translator is required. If this doesn't establish Cantonese as the official Chinese language of the city, I don't know what will.

The Hong Kong education department was just being a dumba$$ when it published that Cantonese was "just a dialect" and not an official language of the city. And this is why a lot of Hong Kongers look down upon the ministers and officials -- it is bad enough that they are selling themselves out to Beijing, but it is worse when they take active measures to sell the entire Hong Kong out only a appease their Beijing masters. They are doing anything but looking our for Hong Kong's interests.

Edit: In reply to your edit section question -- "To non-Asian, would you be able to tell the difference between words written by someone from China, and Hong Kong, (and Taiwan)?", to ask that question is no different than asking a non-English speaking / reading person to distinguish between English, French, German, and Spanish. They all basically use the same character set! But of course, we know they are different languages. And that's exactly the same thing when it comes to Mandarin and Cantonese -- they are different languages, even though they are related in many ways.
To illustrate your point, can you provide example of these differences? I'm talking about written language, not spoken language, nor slangs (especially cantonese with the swear words and such). If you're talking about things like the pronoun, him, 他 vs 佢, and 他們 vs 佢哋,I can definitely tell you the latter is not consider official language, or it's not taught at school.

When you're talking about translator, are you referring to spoken, or written? Are you saying you need a written Mandarin translator vs a written Cantonese translator? I'm not sure if such thing exists.

I'm not sure if you're read speak Cantonese/Mandarin or not, but to say the differences between Cantonese and Mandarin is like English, French, German and Spanish is very ignorant.
edit: My apologies, I misread what you wrote, and I also used the wrong phrase. However, my point is for someone who knows Chinese to be able to tell whether it was written in Chinese/Cantonese/Mandarin/Taiwanese. If you can only read English, you can't read French. If you can read Cantonese, you can read Mandarin/Taiwanese/Chinese. That's a big difference. Hope that makes that part clear of what I was trying to say.

I came here when I was grade 3 and have studied as you would say HK Cantonese while I was here for a couple of years, and I have no problem reading literature written in Mandarin, as you would put it. (contemporary language). Of course I have some trouble reading simplified Chinese, but I can definitely guesstimate most of it. I can tell you I can't read Spanish nor German, not even guess and what it means.

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Old 02-22-2014, 03:20 PM   #106
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And to be honest, I have a neutral stance. I was born in HK, my parents were born in China, and I've lived here for 10+ years.

I have no right to judge the actions seeing how I don't even live there anymore, nor contribute anything to the city, nor even remotely understand or feel what they go through each day when a hoard of people from another place just comes storming in taking all the resources.

But what sickens me is the name calling and the insults, and the way the HKers treat these close strangers. I recall watching a video (can't find it anymore) where a bunch of HKers caught a Mainlander stealing on the MTR. Petty crime, just hand in to the police or something. Not what the HKers feel. They surrounded him at the MTR station, started calling him names and making very disgusting insults. It was as if HKers don't have thieves at all and only Mainlanders steal. If people didn't know what was happening before hand, it looked like the HKers were bullying the Mainlander. It's as if HKers treat the Mainlanders even worse than animals.

I have relatives who live in China and never been or rarely go to HK. But they don't poop all over the place all sneeze or blow their nose, or budge in line. They might be loud sometimes when they speak, but they are not trying to be rude, they just speak like that. I find it an insult when they generalize Mainlanders, because that means they're referring to my relatives like that too, calling them "locusts", and other ugly names of that sort.

And I just find HKers a bit hypocritical of this whole "I'm not a Chinese thing." If you're not Chinese, then what are you? HKers? What constitute a HKer? Someone born in HK? If that's the case, I can name a bunch of public celebrity (Ha Yu, Kara Hui, Leon Lai, Li Ka Shing, Michael Miu) that are not HKers by their defintions, because they were born in China. Are they one of you? Are you one of them? You just said you don't want any interactions with Chinese. If place of birth is not the deciding factor, then what is? HKid Card? So as long as you have a card, you're HKers not Chinese? All in all, I just find the HKers who are arguing about these aren't even sure what they are arguing about.

Blame the government. Not the people.

As for the pooping and all rude stuff. It's wrong. But not all Chinese, or Chinese in general behave like that. Mainlanders didn't just start flooding HK within the last couple years, they've been doing that for a long time. However, with China's economy booming as of late, you get a some people that were really really poor (possibly farmers) that suddenly get rich. It's not as if like, they don't poop on the streets in China, then when they come to HK, they decide to do it all of a sudden. I can also tell you that cities I've been to (zhuhai, shenzhen, boan, etc.) people don't poop in public. So very possible, these are people who actually come from very rural areas, places where it's actually normal to do that. Of course, you can't explain budging, I see that all the time.

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Old 02-22-2014, 03:21 PM   #107
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When people in Hong Kong say "We are not Chinese", are they saying, We are not citizens of PRC/China, or are they saying, we are not Chinese, period, meaning we and they don't share any genetic similarities.
I never understood this.

One can say "I'm from Hong Kong". Okay that makes sense.

But if you're a yellow-skinned with Han ancestry living in Hong Kong...you're Chinese by both definitions of ethnicity and nationality.

Han is a (major) subgroup that's indigenous in China (not sure if I used that term correctly..as in the first Han originated from China rather than Europe)...and Hong Kong as a SAR is a part of PRC...so how can someone in my example not identify themself as Chinese?
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Old 02-22-2014, 03:38 PM   #108
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My examples were certainly referring more to spoken Cantonese vs Mandarin since in formal written form, there is generally no specific distinction between Cantonese and Mandarin. Written forms are generally just referred to as "Chinese" (中文). It should be noted though that Cantonese can be written out. Additionally, it should also be noted that generally, Hong Kong, Taiwanese, and Mainland Chinese (esp from different regions) all write somewhat differently, in terms of word choice, grammar, etc.

Take "where should we go out to eat today?" as an example. In written Chinese, it will probably be written in something along the following lines:

我們今天到那裡吃飯?

In Cantonese, it is: 我地今日去邊度食飯?
In Mandarin, it might look like: 咱們今天到那兒喫飯?

The key points of differences:
"we" is written as "我們" in Chinese, "我地" in Cantonese, and "咱們" in Mandarin. For a Mandarin speaker who is not learned in Cantonese, "我地" probably doesn't make sense because while both characters are standard, typical Chinese characters, "我" means "I", and "地" means ground. So what the heck does "I ground" mean? In Cantonese, "咱" is not a word, although "自" is, and it means "self".

Other differences include "today" -- 今天 (Chinese / Mandarin) vs 今日 (Cantonese), "where" -- 那裡 (Chinese), 邊度 (Cantonese), and 那兒 (Mandarin), and "eat" -- 吃飯 (Chinese), 食飯 (Cantonese), and 喫飯 (Mandarin).

Other examples exists -- like Chinese New Year (農曆新年 vs 春節), bus (巴士 vs 公交車 vs 公車), motorcycles (電單車 vs 摩托車/摩托 vs 機車 <-- more of a Taiwanese term), engine (引擎 vs 發動機), engine oil (偈油 vs 機油/潤滑油). There are also countless number of terms that are once widely used only in one language or the other, but have since been adopted and accepted by both sides due to cultural interaction and cross pollination -- 老公 (husband), 老婆 (wife), 品牌 (brand). Someone can probably come up with a lot more if they just think about it for a bit.

Lastly, we haven't even got to the bastardized form of written Chinese that the PRC government has introduced. I am not referring to the introduction of simplified characters -- I'm referring to the blatantly bad adoption of English directly-translated terms, such as 亮點、打造、優化、一次性交易, etc. These are Chinese invented by the PRC government, not proper terms or anything that came out of the literary world or common use. It is this form of Chinese that sickens me the most.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:01 PM   #109
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My examples were certainly referring more to spoken Cantonese vs Mandarin since in formal written form, there is generally no specific distinction between Cantonese and Mandarin. Written forms are generally just referred to as "Chinese" (中文). It should be noted though that Cantonese can be written out.
So Cantonese should be a different language because the words are read differently?

Photoshopped or Googled can be written out as well, but it doesn't mean it's part of the language. You can write that to your friends, and you can definitely try writing that at a work place too, though I think results would not be good.

我地 doesn't make sense to a Mandarin speaker because it's not the proper language. It's not taught in HK school either. Just like "I photoshopped the picture." When has photoshop became a verb? You can write and say it, doesn't mean it's OK, or right.

那 always lead in to a question. 邊 was suppose to mean edge, side. Can you imagine teaching someone written Cantonese, 邊 means edge, 度 means degree or position etc., but put them together and it means where 邊度?

bus 巴士 is like dim sum (though I'm not sure if dim sum has become an official word).

Yes, China did bastardize some words. But on the other hand, some of those are just poor translations. Just like "fuck the beef fried noodle", does not literally mean you fuck the beef. 三明治 always crack me up because you read it in Mandarin and it sounds exactly like sandwich.

And switching to simplified Chinese was a horrible idea. Good in the sense that it's easier to write (really it is if you try writing words like turtle), but it does look ugly and takes away the elegance of Chinese words.

But again, I don't see anything in Cantonese that validates it as a separate language. Under what basis should Cantonese be consider a different language than Chinese?
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:01 PM   #110
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But what sickens me is the name calling and the insults, and the way the HKers treat these close strangers. I recall watching a video (can't find it anymore) where a bunch of HKers caught a Mainlander stealing on the MTR. Petty crime, just hand in to the police or something. Not what the HKers feel. They surrounded him at the MTR station, started calling him names and making very disgusting insults. It was as if HKers don't have thieves at all and only Mainlanders steal. If people didn't know what was happening before hand, it looked like the HKers were bullying the Mainlander. It's as if HKers treat the Mainlanders even worse than animals.

...

And I just find HKers a bit hypocritical of this whole "I'm not a Chinese thing." If you're not Chinese, then what are you? HKers? What constitute a HKer? Someone born in HK? If that's the case, I can name a bunch of public celebrity (Ha Yu, Kara Hui, Leon Lai, Li Ka Shing, Michael Miu) that are not HKers by their defintions, because they were born in China. Are they one of you? Are you one of them? You just said you don't want any interactions with Chinese. If place of birth is not the deciding factor, then what is? HKid Card? So as long as you have a card, you're HKers not Chinese? All in all, I just find the HKers who are arguing about these aren't even sure what they are arguing about.
The name calling is unfortunate, but given the circumstances that Hong Kongers face, the reaction is hardly surprising at all. When your rights and well-being are continually getting eroded on a lot of different fronts, patience wear and temper flares. If you are a mom and you have to fight against an endless stream of Mainland Chinese expectant moms for a hospital bed, if you are a new parent that cannot find any baby formula to feed your newborn child, if you are a parent whose elementary school-aged kid has to take an hr public transit ride each way just to get to school because the spots at the school 10 min away is taken up by kids with Mainland parents, if you are a regular Joe that has to wait for 6 trains before boarding because of the Mainland tourists, if you are a middle class person that can't afford to buy yourself a flat (and in enough cases, the girl won't marry you unless you have a suite) because prices have all been driven up sky high by the influx of Mainland Chinese hot money, etc. etc. At its core, I agree it is entirely the HKSAR government's fault and failure, but as you continually put up with all of this injustice, all of which are seemingly triggered by the massive influx of Mainland Chinese persons, it is human nature to direct the negative emotions towards the more obviously visible group because the symptoms are far easier to see than the cause.

The "I am not Chinese" thing is of course not a legal declaration in any way. It is really a cultural and identity declaration more than anything else. Personally, the declaration isn't that different from how Taiwanese say they are Taiwanese, not Chinese. But very few people (other than those from the Mainland) will openly oppose against Taiwanese calling themselves Taiwanese instead of Chinese.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:09 PM   #111
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The name calling is unfortunate, but given the circumstances that Hong Kongers face, the reaction is hardly surprising at all. When your rights and well-being are continually getting eroded on a lot of different fronts, patience wear and temper flares. If you are a mom and you have to fight against an endless stream of Mainland Chinese expectant moms for a hospital bed, if you are a new parent that cannot find any baby formula to feed your newborn child, if you are a parent whose elementary school-aged kid has to take an hr public transit ride each way just to get to school because the spots at the school 10 min away is taken up by kids with Mainland parents, if you are a regular Joe that has to wait for 6 trains before boarding because of the Mainland tourists, if you are a middle class person that can't afford to buy yourself a flat (and in enough cases, the girl won't marry you unless you have a suite) because prices have all been driven up sky high by the influx of Mainland Chinese hot money, etc. etc. At its core, I agree it is entirely the HKSAR government's fault and failure, but as you continually put up with all of this injustice, all of which are seemingly triggered by the massive influx of Mainland Chinese persons, it is human nature to direct the negative emotions towards the more obviously visible group because the symptoms are far easier to see than the cause.

The "I am not Chinese" thing is of course not a legal declaration in any way. It is really a cultural and identity declaration more than anything else. Personally, the declaration isn't that different from how Taiwanese say they are Taiwanese, not Chinese. But very few people (other than those from the Mainland) will openly oppose against Taiwanese calling themselves Taiwanese instead of Chinese.
I totally agree with that, and it does suck. But I'm not sure if another city/group of people would've handled it differently (a question?). I'm bias HK people in general are arrogrant, at least over Mainlanders. I know not all are, but in that's the general idea I feel from all the negative news (which I'm generalizing here again).

Of course, with HK government being so heavily controlled by PRC, who can the people in HK complain to right?

I think houses price have always been expensive regardless of Mainlanders.

I think (personal opinion) their declaration is more of a social status more than cultural identity. After all, China really has been considered a not well-developed country for a long time.

I think though, the whole "Chinese" thing has to do again with the fact that nationality represents ethnicity as well in many of the countries in Asia (China, Korea, Japn, Filipino, India etc.)
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:15 PM   #112
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But again, I don't see anything in Cantonese that validates it as a separate language.
We would have to disagree on that point, but I would highly recommend you to try finding a Cantonese speaking person that doesn't know a trace of Mandarin and have him communicate with a Mandarin speaker who doesn't understand Cantonese, and see if they can converse in their respective language. No gestures, no body language, no expressions allowed. Just the spoken language and nothing else.

Additionally, I can also write you a passage in Cantonese and have you pass it to a non-Cantonese speaking Mandarin person, and see how much he can understand the written passage. I can provide that passage in either traditional or simplified characters, and the Mandarin person will probably understand bits and pieces of it. But he is not going to understand the passage in its entirety, and that is the whole point -- when the two sides can't understand each other, that makes them 2 different languages.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:49 PM   #113
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Well I don't consider spoken Cantonese part of the written language. But I'm not a linguist, so who am I to say what is and what's not.

We are getting technical here. However, for your second point, it's unfair for the Mandarin person because the Cantonese person is not writing the learnt Chinese, or the Chinese that's taught in school.

If we have a HKer write a passage in the way Chinese was taught in HK school, I can guarantee you that the Mandarin speaking person would have no problem understanding it.

What HKer has done is taken Chinese, teach it at HK school, and created spoken slangs that only locals understand. I don't think that constitute that a different language.

What hasn't even been consider is if the Cantonese in HK is the same as the one in Guangdong.

Bottomline, if written properly, someone in HK would have no problem communicating with someone in China (putting spoken aside). If spoken was taken consideration, we probably would have a different language for all the dialect in China.

That is, UNLESS, school in HK start teaching stuff like 我地 and 邊度 into their literature, as in actually allowing these words to even make it public areas, like signs and such, THEN we may have a communication problem.

edit: I see where you're coming from after reading the Economist article, which I don't agree in entirety. As long as 2 people can share communicate without too much trouble, they share a language, which would not be the case for spoken Cantonese and Mandarin. That's because spoken is the primary aspect of language, according to that article. It makes you think, if that's the case, whose structure are we basing our language on, is written based on spoken, or spoken based on written?

If HK truly believes Cantonese as an official language, have they pushed for a reform of the teaching system, so children will learn words like 我地 and 邊度 in school and texts, instead of picking it from speaking?

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Old 02-22-2014, 05:32 PM   #114
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People from Hong Kong tell you they're from Hong Kong. They don't identify or care about China just like I don't identify or care about China. I get it. Saying people from China and people from Hong Kong are all just Chinese is incredibly stupid.
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Old 02-22-2014, 05:44 PM   #115
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Ethnicity is different than nationality. I'm Chinese but the way I've always thought about it is...if China ever declared war on Canada, I'd fight for Canada, not China. I'm Canadian first, just like these folks feel like they're HKers, not Chinese.
You're not really "Chinese" though, since it's technically not an ethnicity either (it is just used for simplicity to describe MOST of the ethnicities in China). I guess you're most likely Han, since they make up 91% of the population.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:33 PM   #116
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I'm not sure if you're read speak Cantonese/Mandarin or not, but to say the differences between Cantonese and Mandarin is like English, French, German and Spanish is very ignorant.
edit: My apologies, I misread what you wrote, and I also used the wrong phrase. However, my point is for someone who knows Chinese to be able to tell whether it was written in Chinese/Cantonese/Mandarin/Taiwanese. If you can only read English, you can't read French. If you can read Cantonese, you can read Mandarin/Taiwanese/Chinese. That's a big difference. Hope that makes that part clear of what I was trying to say.
I beg to differ. I can't even count the number of words that are identical if not very similar in English and French. It's like saying all the languages that uses arabic characters are just dialects of each other because you can sometimes figure out what they're saying in the other language.

Coming from learning french in school, I can't tell you how many times I tried to look for words that looked like english to figure out what they were saying in french.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:40 PM   #117
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Regarding Cantonese vs Mandarin vs Chinese as languages, I think it would be best to consider the spoken and written parts separately. For one thing, languages do not necessarily need to have both a spoken component and a written component to be consider a language. In all cases, languages always evolve out of the spoken form first. The written part comes after. And lots and lots of languages in this world don't even have a written aspect to it at all, and yet they are still consider languages.

As far as official language status is concerned, remember that Hong Kong is a common law jurisdiction, while Mainland China operates based on the civil law system. As it stands, the HK Basic Law only ambiguously indicates that "Chinese and English" are the city's official language. But with a near exclusivity of Chinese verbal correspondence being conducted in Cantonese throughout the city's courts, including their use by judges, that pretty much establishes the requirements needed in a common law system to recognize Cantonese as the official (spoken) language in the city. More importantly, with 97% of the population using the language on a daily basis, it would be stupid to not use or consider that as the official (spoken) language. If it weren't for the government idiots down playing the importance and status of Cantonese and brushing it off as a "mere dialect" instead of the official language in attempt to appease their Beijing masters, the discussion wouldn't even have surfaced and caused so much uproar in the first place.

But mark my words on this Cantonese vs Mandarin conflict -- this is going to continue as a central point of conflict in Hong Kong's near and medium term future. The stupid HKSAR government, in their typical and obvious fashion to bend over backwards and cater to what they their Beijing masters might like, are pushing to adopt Mandarin as the language of instruction in the school system's Chinese classes, hiding under the obviously false pretence that the calibre of Chinese literature will improve if Mandarin is used instead of Cantonese. If that were to get pushed through, the natural follow through would be to adopt Mandarin in all other non-Chinese subjects, and then you would essentially have what Shanghai and Guangzhou have already experience -- the next generation of children being unable to speak what was once the regional dominant language. I don't even know what point there is in arguing how that would not happen since there are already 2 well known samples staring right at Hong Kong's face.
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Old 02-23-2014, 01:00 AM   #118
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Jesus guys. The solution is simple. Just make Mainland China a British colony for a hundred years. That'll get the whole situation sorted out.
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Old 02-24-2014, 12:43 PM   #119
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