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Old 05-28-2014, 09:25 AM   #26
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I've always worried about this possibly happening to me and i'd end up with nothing and be a nobody. Especially with the rising cost of living here in Vancouver, i've always had that fear in the back of my mind that i would end up homeless. I guess this is what motivates me to work hard and always reaching for something better but i have my moments where i feel too drained and just want to give up. I just cant imagine having to beg for money and food everyday to be able to keep living.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:29 AM   #27
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I've always worried about this possibly happening to me and i'd end up with nothing and be a nobody. Especially with the rising cost of living here in Vancouver, i've always had that fear in the back of my mind that i would end up homeless. I guess this is what motivates me to work hard and always reaching for something better but i have my moments where i feel too drained and just want to give up. I just cant imagine having to beg for money and food everyday to be able to keep living.
That's a pretty sad state of mind. I was lucky enough to have a very supportive family growing up, and still do to this day. Ones which pushed me along to succeed. Without the feeling of support from people around you, I can see how some find it very tough to the take the risks required to succeed. Whether it's taking time off work to continue your education (And go into debt no doubt), or to start a new business etc. I have a sense of security knowing my family will be there for me if I were to fail in my goals. Hopefully I never have to experience that. Something a lot of people are not fortunate enough to have.

Although some personalities don't need this. They don't think of the consequences which could come from their actions. In this situation that could be a winning combination! Fear of failure without support could be your anchor which you just can't get off the ground.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:43 AM   #28
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I live cheque to cheque. This area is expensive to live in. I don't eat as much as most and I always spend my time doing free shit whether it's walking outside or mashing on my piano.

People always ask me why I have 2 cars despite living cheque to cheque. I give them all the same answer:

They keep me grounded and keep me sane. It would be a horrible idea for me to have kids given my finances so my cars are the next best thing.

But some days I think of selling one and using the funds towards making a small music studio with better gear / tools and really push my creative boundaries (assuming I have any).

As far as the original question, the lack of treatment for addicts / mentally ill is why so many populate our streets. A very small fraction would choose to be homeless. Most just fall through the cracks. Find out how many were sexually abused as children. You might be surprised.
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Old 05-28-2014, 10:54 AM   #29
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:00 AM   #30
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So if i get fired from my job, therefore no EI, would the government step in with welfare? Or because i am a young able bodied man i "shouldn't have a problem finding a job" therefore I'd be told to get lost.

In all reality I'd be homeless in a month if i got fired. $25/hour and definitely still paycheque to paycheque
$25/hr is more than enough......you won't save money or have a decent life.
You can rent a room for $600 a month share the Internet/Cable with roomate $50 food $400 cell phone $60 transit 2 zone pass $120. That's pretty much cover your basic cost. Sure you won't be saving a lot or buying things but it gets you through fine.
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Old 05-28-2014, 11:19 AM   #31
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Well to clarify, at $25/h i rent my own basement suite, put car payments down on my new focus, cost of insurance, fuel, cell phones, etc etc. the best way to say it is that i can live quite comfortably but without much in the way of savings or a vacation to Mexico every year. Which is fine for me cuz I'm a camper!

If i lost my job and didnt get a new one, I'd be boneless quick due to a constant stream of bills. But I am smart and willing to work. 2 or 3 jobs like McDonald's or Tim hortins would probably keep my head above water with ramen noodle and canned tuna
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:13 PM   #32
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In my opinion, people who've had a decent upbringing, and then hit a very patch in their lives, will mostly get back on their feet, through use of various support systems and willingness to take any job, etc.

It's the people who haven't had the privilege of such things - broken homes, born on the street, etc - that will, unfortunately, remain homeless. Their state of mind is completely different.

Factor in addiction, and it's just a downward spiral. It's tragic because most "homeless" people are actually very kind.
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:21 PM   #33
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+1

I do volunteer work 1-2 times a month downtown and you'll be shocked how many people who are homeless actually held good paying jobs, came from loving homes but life took a really bad turn either in the form of drugs or their mental issues got so bad that people around them basically disowned them.

I actually met a guy a few months back who was introduced to me by one of the people who run the shelters in downtown. This guy, who's in his in mid 40's, worked for a large oil company in Alberta a few years back, he told me he made well over six figures, had a wife and two kids and basically got caught up with bad company and got hooked on coke which lead into other drugs like heroin.

He told me within a span of 6 months of doing drugs he put himself into massive debt, lost his job, wife filed for divorce, took his kids and left him with nothing. He's basically a shell of the person he use to be because he has a out of control drug addition problem and he's tried to get treatment but he gets turned away or it's for a short term. His entire family including his own parents disowned him. He'll probably never hold a steady job again because there's not enough treatment centres to provide help for these people and without a support system like family or friends it's near impossible to break a serious drug problem.
I know someone in a similar situation... it's pretty sad
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:23 PM   #34
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Mental illness is one thing, those people should be supported and the government should do their best to help those individuals.

What I hate to see is my tax dollars going towards people who are making no effort of their own to be a productive member of society. I'm talking about those people who sit on handouts from the government for years of their lives, while they do drugs and drink.
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Old 05-28-2014, 12:28 PM   #35
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Are there no jobs in the burbs? Find a job at McDonald's/restaurant and rent as close as possible to there. Walk/bike to work. Eat minimal spend nothing. How hard was that? We're talking about people about to become homeless right? You shouldn't be out doing shit, pay for some cheap wifi and surf the net all day. I honestly think for a normal, none drug addicted person to become homeless in this country for long is very difficult.
this is the problem with vancouver - you shouldn't need to live downtown to work downtown without a car. transit should be sufficient enough to allow you to live in the burbs and get to work without a car.

we keep on claiming vancouver is so land restricted, but if it's so 'small' land wise, then why can't we have a sufficient transit system.

i was not saying live in burbs need a car - i have no sympathy for people who live in expensive areas, you choose where you live. when in vancouver, i chose to live downtown because i could afford it, if i were going for without in some respects so as to live downtown, then i'd be making a dumb decision.

but people don't live within their means, the 'deserve' better (in their minds)
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:03 PM   #36
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Because we are car centered - who wants to take transit when everyone can afford to drive?

I guess another reason is just population density. We haven't got to the point where driving becomes such an nuisance for the majority of the people. Everyone has enough standard of living to afford a car and have it not cripple them to the point where they make a big deal about it. Then no better transit.
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:04 PM   #37
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No compassion for a guy with a family and a good job who becomes a coke head and loses everything, sorry.
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:12 PM   #38
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No compassion for a guy with a family and a good job who becomes a coke head and loses everything, sorry.
Kinda where I am coming from also.

I mean I understand its an addiction, but realistically, how feeble minded do you have to be that after starting a family and marrying someone that you turn to drugs and blow it all.

I mean he obviously must have known better, but his lack of ability to control himself was his own undoing. GG, better luck next time.
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:36 PM   #39
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I suppose that depends on how you look at addition. Some view it as a disease(like cancer) and it needs treatment. Treatment doesn't work for everyone and sometimes it takes a long time to get over it(like cancer and chemo), if ever. Others see it as a choice and a bad one at that. If it was easy for people to stop doing drugs then there wouldn't be any drug problems. It's not as simple as "the world was your oyster and you fucked it up" or "hurry up and get better". Not saying that I do or don't sympathize but usually these matters have deeper seeded issues. Some of the smartest people in history battled with drugs. Does that make them feeble minded?
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:52 PM   #40
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In all reality I'd be homeless in a month if i got fired. $25/hour and definitely still paycheque to paycheque
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Well to clarify, at $25/h i rent my own basement suite, put car payments down on my new focus, cost of insurance, fuel, cell phones, etc etc. the best way to say it is that i can live quite comfortably but without much in the way of savings or a vacation to Mexico every year. Which is fine for me cuz I'm a camper!
issue is definitely not cuz you are making too little
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:53 PM   #41
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Mental illness is one thing, those people should be supported and the government should do their best to help those individuals.

What I hate to see is my tax dollars going towards people who are making no effort of their own to be a productive member of society. I'm talking about those people who sit on handouts from the government for years of their lives, while they do drugs and drink.
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No compassion for a guy with a family and a good job who becomes a coke head and loses everything, sorry.
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Kinda where I am coming from also.

I mean I understand its an addiction, but realistically, how feeble minded do you have to be that after starting a family and marrying someone that you turn to drugs and blow it all.

I mean he obviously must have known better, but his lack of ability to control himself was his own undoing. GG, better luck next time.
I have relatively little sympathy for someone who's partying spiraled out of control.

It's important to say that addiction is usually based on something outside an individual's power though, such as childhood emotional, physical, or sexual abuse, or post-traumatic stress. The unbelievable difficulty for such individuals to not simply seek but also to access help to work past the trauma that substance abuse is used to dull is not at all a personal failing caused by feebleness. Theo Fleury and Clint Malarchuk come to mind immediately as examples.
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:54 PM   #42
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Find a job at McDonald's/restaurant and rent as close as possible to there. Walk/bike to work. Eat minimal spend nothing. How hard was that?
What a life...
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:56 PM   #43
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$25/hr is more than enough......you won't save money or have a decent life.

To start barely having an OK life you need at least 100k in Vancouver, at least!
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Old 05-28-2014, 02:58 PM   #44
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It comes down to opinion really.

But those who have gone through it and have come out on top are the most reliable, I think.

If it was someone close to you or a loved one that succumbed to addiction, are you still going to be able to say "your fault, too bad"?
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Old 05-28-2014, 03:24 PM   #45
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It comes down to opinion really.

But those who have gone through it and have come out on top are the most reliable, I think.

If it was someone close to you or a loved one that succumbed to addiction, are you still going to be able to say "your fault, too bad"?
No, your right I wouldn't be, but your damn right I wouldn't be supporting them saying "ohh its okay, its a disease". I'd likely smack em with a shovel and set them straight.

How many years have we been trying as a civilization to fix this problem of bottom feeders, and people who strive to be the lowest form of scum this planet has ever seen. Maybe the way to help these people isn't to support them and provide them help. Maybe the way to fix them is to PUNISH them.

I know a lot of people don't know me, and I hate to type this out online because a lot of people are just going to judge without fully understanding my perspective on the situation, but I see it like this:

Someone who kills someone regardless of under what influence or pretense (except for self defense) is convicted and locked up in prison, where we hope that punishment for their crime a minute amounts of councelling will rehabilitate them.

Yet we take an almost completely different approach to rehabilitating drug addicts.

Which group have we given up on? The killers or the addicts? And if we have given up on a group of people and we don't think they can be rehabillitated, then why are we keeping these people around? Bring back the death penalty and end the pain and suffering for everyone involved.

Now I do recognize that drug use is a far bigger epedemic than killings, but just because the issue is so widespread it shouldn't stop us from trying to enforce the law.

Maybe the first step should be to clearly define all the drug laws, what the hell is with this non-sense of, you can carry this much on you, or can have illegal drugs in your system. If its illegal it should be illegal PERIOD. I hate people that half ass shit.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:06 PM   #46
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Thinking of it as a disease doesn't make it an excuse, it more paints a clearer picture of what rehabilitation could look like. If smacking them with a shovel to "set them straight" is your answer, well; I don't even know what to say. You can't put everyone in the same box even though the symptoms are the same.

A good friend of mine was run over and killed by a drunk driver years ago. He died while the driver got 24 months of probation with no jail time. So here is someone who killed another person while under the influence yet is punished with probation, definitely not locked up in prison. Where's the rehabilitation in that? That tells me that driving drunk and killing someone will only get me 2 years probation. The outcome is never black and white and definitely different for every case.
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Old 05-28-2014, 04:52 PM   #47
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As far as the original question, the lack of treatment for addicts / mentally ill is why so many populate our streets. A very small fraction would choose to be homeless. Most just fall through the cracks. Find out how many were sexually abused as children. You might be surprised.
Pretty much this... it's pretty easy to tell after a short walk in the Downtown Eastside (I don't recommend doing this at night) that the majority of homeless people are either A) people who have mental illnesses, B) people who are addicted to drugs or alcohol, or C) both. While there are obviously homeless people who are able-bodied but "lazy" and don't choose to work, the reality is that a lot of homeless people are just victims of a system that closes down mental health care facilities, giving these people nowhere to go but the streets. Most of these people cannot integrate properly into society, which is why they are institutionalized in the first place.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:02 PM   #48
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Thinking of it as a disease doesn't make it an excuse, it more paints a clearer picture of what rehabilitation could look like. If smacking them with a shovel to "set them straight" is your answer, well; I don't even know what to say. You can't put everyone in the same box even though the symptoms are the same.

A good friend of mine was run over and killed by a drunk driver years ago. He died while the driver got 24 months of probation with no jail time. So here is someone who killed another person while under the influence yet is punished with probation, definitely not locked up in prison. Where's the rehabilitation in that? That tells me that driving drunk and killing someone will only get me 2 years probation. The outcome is never black and white and definitely different for every case.
Lol the smacking with a shovel part was hyperbole.

Sorry to hear about your friend. Drunk driving is something I have personal issues with as well, and I have zero tolerance for those that do it. It's such a stupid thing, there is no reason for it, and taking someone elses life for your stupid mistake in my books just means you don't value life at all.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:04 PM   #49
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You'd be surprised at how healthy my lifestyle actually is now...
yeah man, he pays people to do his coke for him. he gets his high through them.
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Old 05-28-2014, 05:05 PM   #50
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drugs and drinking are two huge factors, depression is also. if you get fired from a good job, and cant find another one people resort to drugs and drinking to take the pain away. but it slowly eats at whats left in their bank accounts. eventually they can't pay for rent and start selling what they have left to fuel their addiction.


this is a good watch if anyone has time, someone went homeless in vancouver and tried some drugs.
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