ICBC Transfer of Ownership PST rate and being overcharged. Hey guys, I figure I would post up here what I have recently found and won in my fight against ICBC upon paying up the PST on my recently purchased Honda Ruckus. I recently purchased a Honda Ruckus 49cc scooter from a friend, prior to purchasing it, as what would any good person do, I did a budget on what I wanted to spend for it, including insurance and any of the taxes it takes to transfer over to my name. I first called ICBC and inquired about what PST tax rate I should be paying when transferring over this scooter and was very assuredly told it was 12% PST. Not entirely thrilled about having to pay so much in taxes, I began to research on the Ministry Of Finance website and came across the following published documentation: http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_l...ns/pst_308.pdf Where it clearly states: Quote:
I then dug deeper into the Bulletin PST 116: http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_l...ns/pst_116.pdf Quote:
Therefore from here one would assume that a 49cc scooter like mine (which are actually very popular in this city), would not be considered a Passenger Vehicle and as such would be charged at 7%. I sent my findings and inquired with the Ministry Of Finance's help email (CTBTaxQuestions@gov.bc.ca) and surprisingly got a response back in 48 hours from the Ministry Of Finance Rulings and Interpretations Team confirming what I had assumed. That my 49cc scooter was in fact not defined as passenger vehicle and should therefore not be charged the 12%. Here comes the problem, I showed up to an Autoplan broker (BCAA in Richmond to be exact) and started filing my paperwork and the agent immediately started entering it the 12% tax rate. I explained to him what I had found, and even mentioned the ruling from the Ministry Of Finance that stated that I should be charged the 7% rate. He brought in his manager, who also immediately assumed that it was 12%, and I correctly him as well, and also quoted the email I had received from my ruling. Both were completely unaware but helpful and willing to confirm with ICBC if this was in fact the case (I had to say their service was great, so this is not a knock on them). The agent who at this point was trying to look into their ICBC front page documentation about what the tax rate and the exceptions, really couldn't find any mention about the 249 cc or less motorcycle designation. He then called ICBC helpline and inquired with them, who then stated that is was 12%, and at this point, the agent started fighting the case for me. Acknowledging my emails and communications. The ICBC agent and the BCAA agent both asked me to forward the email I had received from the Ministry Of Finance to them. The ICBC agent at this point brought in his manager who also read this email and had a long pause upon the realization that it's possible that since April 1, 2014 they might possibly have been charging people 12% instead of 7% PST. The issue here is that the computer system that ICBC uses would not in any way acknowledge or accept a 7% tax rate. The BCAA agent in fact had to really do a lot of side setup to make it accept the rate. So this is definitely a systemic issue on ICBC's part. I want to bring this to light, as I am sure that a lot of people have been paying the full tax rate and could potentially be owed money back from either the government or ICBC. In the end, I ended up only paying the 7% rate. The agent at BCAA laughed and congratulated me on finding this and "stumping ICBC". |
|
:notbad: I have 2 trucks purchased recently that are over 3/4 ton. Will have to look into this more. Good find OP :thumbs: maybe take this to the news? |
Take this to the news they love to shit on ICBC. |
Good on yeah, bro. Keep up the good work! : ) |
In light of the other recent story about ICBC overcharging on some coverages, yeah, I'd think the news would eat this up. Edit: in before the usual anti-ICBC, anti-establishment bullshit - it's a systemic error, it's been found, it will be fixed, and no doubt people will be reimbursed as appropriate. It CAN happen in any bureaucracy, it DOES happen from time to time... get over it. |
Blame the antiHSTers who forced the change in the Pst system |
As someone who has bought and sold a few 250cc bikes, this is great to know. Good work and thanks to OP. |
ICBC will have to do a ton of reimbursements/refunds to a lot of people if this is brought out to the public. Good find OP. |
Very interesting indeed. I've always advised 12% PST based on the bulletins they released when we transitioned back into PST. We went from TDP to PST2 and they've never said anything about exceptions. I'll see what i can find out tomorrow. Taxes are collected on behalf of the Consumer Taxation Branch by ICBC and i would assume it would be refunded by CTB (not sure how this would work). Usually you would have to write into CTB with a copy of your APV9T (transfer tax form) and explain your situation. |
I've sent a message to CBC News Vancouver, anyone have any other news orgs i should send a message out to? |
Quote:
|
Dammit,I imported a 250cc motorcycle awhile back and paid 12% on it... now the question is how to claim back that 5%! I mean at the end of the day it's only $60... but still! |
Quote:
|
Exactly... it's your money. I've sent this to a number of news agencies and have gotten some responses back. If this story breaks, I can assume that this will force ICBC to go back to into their previous systems and most likely issue reimbursements. Kind of embarrassing considering their last issue with overcharging their customers. |
Quote:
|
Great job, OP. |
Quote:
|
Quote:
I don't blame the HST for this as someone mentioned above though... this was a little scam left behind from the government to even things out between private sales and dealer sales with a LOT of pressure from the automobile dealers association of BC being applied... huge scam. It's a total scam you have to pay any tax whatsoever on a used vehicle in the first place let alone keeping it at 12% even after HST got scrapped (for better or worse). |
Tax refunds are not done through ICBC. If you believe you've been taxed incorrectly, please fill out this form and submit it to Consumer Taxation Branch for a refund. http://www.sbr.gov.bc.ca/documents_l...0355MVFILL.pdf Besides the definition, I could not find anything that clearly indicates the before mentioned vehicles should be taxed 7%. If someone could please find a clear statement of that with the percentage of tax that should be charged for non-passenger vehicles. Here's what a found: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
OP can you please post your email from CTB? |
Nice find OP, good on your for doing your homework. I certainly would have just phoned, and when someone told me the percentage, I would have just assumed they were correct. Spoiler! |
Quote:
Go to the finance page: Revenue Division Click on the Provincial Sales Tax link: Provincial Sales Tax - Consumer Taxes Quote:
Now when you click on the link for Vehicles, they then define what a vehicle is, which I've mentioned in my first post. Here is the email I received from the Ministry Of Finance (I will edit it to remove specific people's names). Quote:
|
Based on that email, it did not mention anything about private sale. Their email is correct when saying that tax is 7% based on... Quote:
Quote:
Private sale is still 12%. The person who emailed you based their findings on a retail transaction and not a private sale transaction. I would email them back and have them clarify. Bottom line, you got lucky that you got away with 7% on a private sale as there is a tax rate difference for dealer sales vs private sales. |
When I sent them the email, I clearly indicated that this was a sale from a private individual to another private individual. Retail doesn't necessarily mean a brick and motor store under the tax designation. It means someone placed an item up for sale and sold it. There is no specification with regards to who sells it, whether it be a licensed retailer or a private individual. |
Quote:
Paying sales tax on the private sale of a used good, which had already had sales tax paid when it was first sold is just pure double-dipping by the government. And the new definition of "related individual" is extremely narrow. For example, an Aunt or Uncle now cannot gift a vehicle to a Niece or Nephew. A blood relative is not enough of a "related individual"? What the fuck? |
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:05 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net