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Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Technical Discussion > Maintenance, Engine & Driveline Tech

Maintenance, Engine & Driveline Tech This forum is brought to you by The Speed Syndicate (TSS) in Burnaby.
Discussion of maintaining your engine, transmission, differentails, rear ends, and mods associated with "driveline" parts..

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Old 09-06-2014, 03:13 PM   #1
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Car burning excessive engine oil

Thinking about replacing piston rings on my honda accord 4 cylinder 5 speed. anyone recommend a shop, and what I would expect to pay for something like this?
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Old 09-06-2014, 03:25 PM   #2
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4 cylinder?
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Old 09-06-2014, 03:56 PM   #3
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Old 09-07-2014, 12:50 PM   #4
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Its MUCH cheaper to find a good low mileage engine and swap that in if youre on a budget. Are you sure tho the rings are the culprit there are other points of failure that can lead to oil consumption and burning
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:28 PM   #5
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Its MUCH cheaper to find a good low mileage engine and swap that in if youre on a budget. Are you sure tho the rings are the culprit there are other points of failure that can lead to oil consumption and burning
Whats the best way to diagnosis this, my symptoms are oil burns within 5000km causing engine oil to come on, had to replace the o2 sensor, and the exhaust is covered in all black dust. What you guys charge for labor for a swap or replacing rings?
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Old 09-07-2014, 04:55 PM   #6
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I'd invest in compression and leakdown tests before committing to a swap or rebuild.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:45 PM   #7
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h22 swap. I have one for sale. All the work on it was done at evolution.
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Old 09-10-2014, 07:36 AM   #8
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It could be valve guides and or seals. So a comp check is a best start. I can do one for you for $75. But a ring job requires pulling the engine and stripping it down. At that point you should be replacing crank and rod bearings plus all seals and a headgasket also surfacing the head So pretty much a complete bottom end rebuild. That will cost you in excess of $2000.
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Old 09-14-2014, 08:43 AM   #9
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is it burning oil? or is it consuming it? have you seen any smoke out the tailpipe? if so, when do you notice it? if you have a cloud of blue smoke on start up after a cold soak (morning), intake valve seals are a likely culprit. if it smokes blue under high engine vacuum (coasting down a hill with throttle plate closed) exhaust valve seals.
if you remove the intake plenum, you can peer into the ports and see the valve stems. if they're coated in oil, the seals are worn. you can pull the exhaust manifold off and look through the ports there. if you see fresh oil in the ports, exhaust stem seals are worn.

a compression test won't really help with an oil burning issue. especially with no driveability concerns. it's not compression rings that cause oil burning. it's oil control rings. which do not effect compression.

if your issue is valve stem seals, they can be done on vehicle. super easy with a transvers mounted 4cyl.

if you aren't noticing any smoke at any time (you seem to be losing a lot of oil for the light to come on, so it would be painfully obvious), then the engine is consuming it.
a simple check of the pcv system would be in order. it could be that simple
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:31 PM   #10
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I haven't seen any smoke while driving by my exhaust is full of black residue, are you saying valve stem seals are cheap to replace?

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is it burning oil? or is it consuming it? have you seen any smoke out the tailpipe? if so, when do you notice it? if you have a cloud of blue smoke on start up after a cold soak (morning), intake valve seals are a likely culprit. if it smokes blue under high engine vacuum (coasting down a hill with throttle plate closed) exhaust valve seals.
if you remove the intake plenum, you can peer into the ports and see the valve stems. if they're coated in oil, the seals are worn. you can pull the exhaust manifold off and look through the ports there. if you see fresh oil in the ports, exhaust stem seals are worn.

a compression test won't really help with an oil burning issue. especially with no driveability concerns. it's not compression rings that cause oil burning. it's oil control rings. which do not effect compression.

if your issue is valve stem seals, they can be done on vehicle. super easy with a transvers mounted 4cyl.

if you aren't noticing any smoke at any time (you seem to be losing a lot of oil for the light to come on, so it would be painfully obvious), then the engine is consuming it.
a simple check of the pcv system would be in order. it could be that simple
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Old 09-15-2014, 08:38 PM   #11
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Sorry to thread jack, I have a similar problem...as we all know h22s love burning oil. However, I see no smoke and there is no smoke even after you rev it after a long drive (used to smoke, but then kept changing oil every 1000k kms or so and its gone). I am losing about 2 drips of oil the size of quarters a day but that's it (found the leak to be coming from timing belt cover, so I'll get it done when I replace the belt). Before I had a very minor leak from the valve gasket and the oil cooler o ring gasket, but that's all done. There is only black residue inside the exhaust. No trace of oil around the block other than the tbelt cover! But I still fill up about a quart in between 3000k oil changes
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:08 AM   #12
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I haven't seen any smoke while driving by my exhaust is full of black residue, are you saying valve stem seals are cheap to replace?
not saying they're cheap to replace. just that it doesn't require removal of the head. you may still need to remove the cam to access the retainers and remove the seals. i haven't worked on hondas in a while so i can't recall. but we're putting the cart before the horse here. does it smoke blue in the morning?


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Sorry to thread jack, I have a similar problem...as we all know h22s love burning oil. However, I see no smoke and there is no smoke even after you rev it after a long drive (used to smoke, but then kept changing oil every 1000k kms or so and its gone). I am losing about 2 drips of oil the size of quarters a day but that's it (found the leak to be coming from timing belt cover, so I'll get it done when I replace the belt). Before I had a very minor leak from the valve gasket and the oil cooler o ring gasket, but that's all done. There is only black residue inside the exhaust. No trace of oil around the block other than the tbelt cover! But I still fill up about a quart in between 3000k oil changes
the h22 as i recall, was pretty notorious for glazing cylinder walls. since they used that frp composite in the sleeves. strong as hell. but itdid create oil burners.
pull the oil fill cap off and run the engine. see if it huffs out the oil filler. if it huffs, that's gonna be blow by. meaning the rings aren't doing a good job of sealing combustion.
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:15 AM   #13
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another quick check you can do, if you're curious of whether it's burning oil or if it's merely being consumed, is just pull your spark plugs and have a look at them. when read correctly, they're a great indicator of what's going on inside.
if you see hard black carbon deposits, that's likely oil. if the plugs look fairly clean, that's not gonna be your problem

who knows, maybe your tube seals are leaking. pretty common on the d series engine. if you throw your plug socket down there and it's covered in oil, you know where that's from
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Old 09-18-2014, 06:52 PM   #14
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No smoke when i start it first thing in the morning, even after a few revs in neutral I see no smoke.


[QUOTE=welfare;8530811]not saying they're cheap to replace. just that it doesn't require removal of the head. you may still need to remove the cam to access the retainers and remove the seals. i haven't worked on hondas in a while so i can't recall. but we're putting the cart before the horse here. does it smoke blue in the morning?
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Old 09-18-2014, 08:13 PM   #15
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how about coasting down a hill? or starting off from a red light?

pull your spark plugs and have a look at them. the oil may be leaking or being consumed
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Old 09-18-2014, 08:37 PM   #16
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another quick check you can do, if you're curious of whether it's burning oil or if it's merely being consumed
whats the difference?
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:18 AM   #17
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if it's being burned, it goes through the combustion process. if it's being consumed, it doesn't, or does so slowly enough that you won't notice it out the tailpipe or with excessive emissions.

other possibilities are engine oil leaks near the exhaust which get burned off before they would reach the ground, and thus wouldn't leave the typical trace of an external leak with drips or puddles
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:24 AM   #18
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typically if it's being consumed, you'll find very high amounts of oil in the intake plenum. it of course does not just disappear into thin air. but that's what you would think when you're not finding any external leaks and zero blue smoke, yet your oil level seems to drop significantly between oil changes
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Old 09-20-2014, 12:20 PM   #19
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took it for a spin, black smokes comes out when step on the gas hard. Didnt notice anything going down hill with throttle closed.
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Old 09-20-2014, 09:33 PM   #20
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if it's being burned, it goes through the combustion process. if it's being consumed, it doesn't, or does so slowly enough that you won't notice it out the tailpipe or with excessive emissions.

other possibilities are engine oil leaks near the exhaust which get burned off before they would reach the ground, and thus wouldn't leave the typical trace of an external leak with drips or puddles
ok. everyone has their own interpretation of "consuming oil"
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Old 09-21-2014, 11:47 AM   #21
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took it for a spin, black smokes comes out when step on the gas hard. Didnt notice anything going down hill with throttle closed.
sure it's black and not blue?
black smoke is CO. typically. or rich run condition
have you pulled the plugs out to inspect?
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Old 09-21-2014, 11:55 AM   #22
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ok. everyone has their own interpretation of "consuming oil"
it basically just means that you're losing oil, but there's no smoke and it's not leaking externally
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:15 PM   #23
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The converter can hide blue smoke.
I remember from aircare training years ago, the instructor said the converter won't do burn oil HC because its a different HC.
I have a first gen odyssey and have been driving it for the last 7 years. 98% of the last 6 years have been driven converter less. It puffs blue smoke, especially after accelerating after idling for a minute or so. I'd install the converter before aircare and noticed the smoke was gone.
I just re-installed it for good last month (just before i quit my job at Honda of 23 years) and there's virtually no smoke.
Haven't bother to pull the plugs but from what i've seen on other cars, the deposit buildups can be black or grey or even wet looking depending on the rate of burning or consuming
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:52 AM   #24
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yes, but were you losing as much oil as the op is?
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Old 09-22-2014, 05:55 AM   #25
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technically, even without cats, if the engine is performing as it should, there shouldn't be smoke out the tailpipe. your precat readings should actually be very close to tailpipe readings. on a proper running, efficient engine
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