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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

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Old 11-04-2014, 10:38 AM   #26
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In contrast, the Burj Khalifa at almost 1000ft taller started in 2004 and opened in 2010.

American resiliance, or fading world power?


The full height of the building including antenna signifies a date in American history. Like, literally the beginning of Nation we call USA, today. Not a pissing match on who could build a higher tower. Is wikipedia failing you? Or is it that you've failed in Wikipedia'ing?

I've personally been there and actually learned something while I was there on why it is the way it is and what the two holes in the ground that were turned into waterfalls represent. Everything that is a landmark in New York has some form of significant symbolism tied in with it and was done for a reason.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:52 AM   #27
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Don't forget what is underneath WTC1 is a whole transport hub with subways etc, not to mention legacy systems. There is nothing as complicated underneath BK.
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:55 AM   #28
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Uhh .. yeah you can -- I'd rather be a foreign worker in America than UAE any day of the week

They go to their home country, promise them good money, and once they get to Dubai essentially their passports are taken away, they are charged for their shelter/food and are basically stuck in a cycle where they can never get enough money to get out. On top of that, no running water, no sewer systems, and living in all-male shanty towns in the desert
So like we treat foreign workers here and in the states...sure if it's revealed the government will clamp down on issues but largely it goes on unchecked... like the farms in pitt meadows treating Mexican workers like shit and stuffing them in shacks with no heating/water/washrooms

or more recently with the foreign worker program that was allowed to go on until the CBC broke the news (workers also had their passports seized and forced to live in apartments run by their employers for high fees)

the same stories can be found in the states (but at least in canada these workers can get medical treatment)


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where the heat easily surpasses 40 degrees celsius with no AC either.

Deaths aren't reported because they don't have to be, there's footage of some of these workers being interviewed and they admit each one of them knows of at least 1 or 2 people that have died on a construction site, or because they decided to just kill themselves because of the situation they were stuck in
no ones denying its bad my point is its bad in the states too but ignored and treated as if shit like that doesn't happen but it does

so again you can't praise one and demonize the other...they're both bad
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:26 AM   #29
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So like we treat foreign workers here and in the states...sure if it's revealed the government will clamp down on issues but largely it goes on unchecked... like the farms in pitt meadows treating Mexican workers like shit and stuffing them in shacks with no heating/water/washrooms

or more recently with the foreign worker program that was allowed to go on until the CBC broke the news (workers also had their passports seized and forced to live in apartments run by their employers for high fees)

the same stories can be found in the states (but at least in canada these workers can get medical treatment)




no ones denying its bad my point is its bad in the states too but ignored and treated as if shit like that doesn't happen but it does

so again you can't praise one and demonize the other...they're both bad
No one's ignoring the plight of illegal immigrants in North America, otherwise you wouldn't be hear anything in the news about it and we wouldn't be discussing it here (why are we again? I thought this was a thread about One WTC?). But creating a false equivalency between that and the utterly horrible conditions of South Asian workers in the Gulf States is facetious at best and smacks of more of your Anti-Western bias.

Would you compare sexual harassment of women in Western societies with the sickening oppression of women in Taliban Afghanistan or ISIS-controlled Syria? No? They're both bad.
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:34 AM   #30
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Anti-Western bias.
is it an anti western bias? i don't think so it's more of understanding the facts as they are and voicing them against a a pro-western bias that likes to ignore their own failings

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Would you compare sexual harassment of women in Western societies with the sickening oppression of women in Taliban Afghanistan ... ? No? They're both bad.
yes when it comes to the Taliban; we see circumstances just as bad or worse going on in western societies against women but they get portrayed differently than when similar circumstances happen in a 3rd world country like afghanistan

as for why its a topic of discussion...i don't know the OP brought it up :P
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Old 11-04-2014, 11:59 AM   #31
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The WTC1's roof is exactly 1368 ft tall, which was the same height as the original North Tower.
An antennae was added on top to bring the structure's exact height to 1776 ft. I'll let you figure out the significance of 1776 (for Americans).
It has a 408ft antenna on top? That's impressive in itself.

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Don't forget what is underneath WTC1 is a whole transport hub with subways etc, not to mention legacy systems. There is nothing as complicated underneath BK.
Good point, the cost to be able to modify things to take that weight (not to mention the increased footprint of the building) would be immense.

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so again you can't praise one and demonize the other...they're both bad
That they are, but you're comparing the Girl Scouts to Seal Team 6 here. Not to mention the scale of the problem isn't even comparable.
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Old 11-04-2014, 12:01 PM   #32
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That they are, but you're comparing the Girl Scouts to Seal Team 6 here. Not to mention the scale of the problem isn't even comparable.
can't argue with you there
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Old 11-04-2014, 01:16 PM   #33
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OP implied it took 13 years to build this tower when in actuality it took closer to 8 years since construction started in 2006 after several delays in the planning and design process.

In terms of NYC building projects however, this pales in comparison to the Second Avenue Subway, which has been in the works since the 1920s and has a tentative completion date of 2029! (construction started 2005)

We can't really compare the building processes of a First World country with those of an emerging economy where there are lax labour laws, building code deficiencies and little to no respect for existing property rights. I mean how long is it taking to build our site C dam in the middle of nowhere without pissing off a slew of environmentalists and First Nations groups.

Architecturally speaking, I don't think the round podium on which the antenna sits upon matches the sharp angles of the building itself. But overall, love the reflective glass facade, wish we had more buildings in a similar vein in Vancouver. We do have the new MNP tower on West Hastings St. coming up though which is a beaut.

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Old 11-04-2014, 06:45 PM   #34
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StylinRed you need to shut the fuck up. All you ever do is blindly regurgitate your anti-captalist bullshit over and over. I get that offering some sort of contrarian opinion makes you feel superior but from the other side all we see is just some jackass that has NEVER produced anything of value in life.

Your entire rant in this thread is so fucking uncalled for. I seriously don't know what the fuck goes on inside your head
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Old 11-04-2014, 07:01 PM   #35
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I see what you did there..
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I think he was being serious, because thats how it really looks
Its crazy that when a plane fly's by about every minute or so the planes shadow goes across the building
Pics from ground level from June 2013



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Old 11-04-2014, 08:19 PM   #36
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Right which is what you think would have done in this particular case to show resilience instead of showing it took the US 13yrs! to recover (even though their economy is still in the dump)


Although it only cost $1.5bn to build the burj and $3bn to build the new wtc
That's a dumb thing to say.
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Old 11-04-2014, 08:34 PM   #37
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is it an anti western bias? i don't think so it's more of understanding the facts as they are and voicing them against a a pro-western bias that likes to ignore their own failings



yes when it comes to the Taliban; we see circumstances just as bad or worse going on in western societies against women but they get portrayed differently than when similar circumstances happen in a 3rd world country like afghanistan

as for why its a topic of discussion...i don't know the OP brought it up :P
Can you please provide some evidence? I am actually curious to know what happens in Western Countries (let's focus on the U.S. and Canada here) that is worse than not being able to vote, work, leave the house without a male chaperon, etc.
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Old 11-04-2014, 09:59 PM   #38
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Sorry, I'm a little worked up here as well ... StylinRed's comment about the treatment of women in "western societies..."

A ~ I noticed that you reference "western societies." You did so probably because by being vague it's more difficult for somebody to challenge your statement. Given that in the broadest sense "western societies" could include literally dozens of countries it genuinely invalidates your alleged fact. Further, because you are unable to identify those specific nation-states that you allege to treat women "just as bad or worse" than has the Taliban I strongly suspect it's because you have no actual factual information to support your claim.

B ~ exactly which academic journals are providing you with this incredibly inaccurate information? Before you considered making the statement here, did you elect to first validate the references?

C ~ please provide some tangible, first-hand experiences that provide evidence that "western societies" treat women "just as bad or worse" than Taliban-administered regions have historically.

D ~ please provide a definition of exactly all of those countries that you identify as "western." Are you speaking in a geographic sense? Are you speaking about a collection of nation-states that share similar political frameworks? Using the term "western societies" is about as ignorant as using the term "first world country."
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:18 PM   #39
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How much do you not want to get in this building?
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Old 11-04-2014, 10:31 PM   #40
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Architecturally speaking, I don't think the round podium on which the antenna sits upon matches the sharp angles of the building itself. But overall, love the reflective glass facade, wish we had more buildings in a similar vein in Vancouver. We do have the new MNP tower on West Hastings St. coming up though which is a beaut.
This will probably be the most interesting upcoming structure in Vancouver, to be completed in 2018.



Structurally, supposed to be spectacular due to it's triangular footprint, that changes into a 4 sided tower.
Architecturally, I don't really like it. But at the same time, I'm glad Vancouver is going to get something unorthodox.

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Old 11-04-2014, 10:51 PM   #41
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That's a fucking cool looking building. The Vancouver skyline is pretty dull.
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:11 AM   #42
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jimmies are rustled

i'll PM you guys so as not to derail this further as the usual bunch seem to have the same issue regarding which has nothing to do with these 2 towers


actually i'll just include it in here for the curious and spoiler it so as not to take up space but if you want to reply i encourage you to pm

Spoiler!

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Old 11-05-2014, 09:47 AM   #43
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I'm going to leave the whole clash of civilizations conversation alone with StylinRed and try to stray back to topic (somewhat).

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This will probably be the most interesting upcoming structure in Vancouver, to be completed in 2018.



Structurally, supposed to be spectacular due to it's triangular footprint, that changes into a 4 sided tower.
Architecturally, I don't really like it. But at the same time, I'm glad Vancouver is going to get something unorthodox.

Vancouver House: This one?s big - The Globe and Mail
Call me a traditionalist, but a sleek opaque glass office tower beats a post-modern avant-garde residential building any day. I think balconies on a building are ugly ugly ugly. It's too bad we have so many of them in downtown Vancouver and come to think of it, I think our city is the only place in North America where our tallest buildings are all Residential/Hotel (a sad fact that our city has never been a business head office centre and in recent decades seem to have been reduced to "resort" status.

Compare Seattle's skyline


to ours:


Now you tell me which one looks more "Boss"
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:52 AM   #44
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Lol seattles skyline is gross. The space needle is so dated now, looks even worse in person
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:45 AM   #45
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Lol seattles skyline is gross. The space needle is so dated now, looks even worse in person
That's your opinion, but there's a sort of retro '60s Space Age Jetsons thing going on that's a bit nostalgic. The LAX and JFK TWA terminal (which is actually a historical landmark) is an example of that style. Besides I'm referring to the sleek office buildings that seem to be innundated with residential buildings in this city. Most other North American cities don't try to cover their office buildings up with condos.

What will look dated (and already does IMO) are all the seafoam green condos lining False Creek.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:56 AM   #46
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Now you tell me which one looks more "Boss"
To me, those majestic mountains are truly "boss". I like the skyline from the other side (across from Coal Harbour). In fact, the skyline looks great from all sides - seen from Grouse Mountain, SFU, Queen Elizabeth Park, UBC, etc, etc, etc.......even from 1st Ave. and Clarke Drive.

Seattle only looks decent from one angle, maybe two.

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Old 11-05-2014, 11:25 AM   #47
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Will agree that the majority of Concorde pacific developments are rather uninspired
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Old 11-05-2014, 11:37 AM   #48
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Yes our mountains have many cities beat, but that's not really something we built 'amirite?

Again, this is just a matter of opinion but our skyline "tabletops" a lot which I think is aesthetically less pleasing than other skylines that have buildings of varied height - although we've been gradually moving away from that with the Shangri-La and the Trump.

But if the above two were built with more opaque glass and without the horrible protuding balconies I think they'd be even better. Again Seattle was just a point of comparison since they're in a geographically similar area, but there's no need to bash the place.

I think Chicago has one of the best skylines on the continent and they manage to do it with a mix of residential and commercial towers:
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:34 PM   #49
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The MNP tower looks much better than the one from BIG but hopefully that will look better once completed (the ground floor buildings with the green roofs look great though)
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:34 PM   #50
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let's NOT compare skylines. we can never compare to super cities.

let's stick to single buildings.
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