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Old 12-12-2014, 10:48 PM   #51
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Is that worse than releasing tons of carbon into the air?

It's a scaling issue, as I see it, if we replaced our energy needs with solar, it would be an incredible amount of panels we would need. When they become useless, what do we do with them. Releasing tons of carbon into the air might not seem so bad after that.

What kind of health issues? Source for temperature changes? (and not from a whackjob source please) Are these issues worse than releasing tons of carbon into the air?

Imagine not being able to sleep for hours on end, it's like a slow death. I would take tons of carbon into the air if it meant a release from suffering.

As for the temperature changes, i've heard that there was a wind farm around the gulf of mexico or southern US that raised the oceans temp by a couple degrees. It was in another thread.
http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/fea...wind-farm.html
http://www.engadget.com/2012/04/30/s...-temperature-/

They can be issues if the wind farms scale up to the space we need them to. Which would probably disrupt wildlife and nearing human population. I don't know if it's worse because it's comparing apples to oranges. Mass of carbon vs disruption/health issue.

Wind turbine noise not linked to health problems, Health Canada finds - Technology & Science - CBC News


Is killing a bunch of birds worse than releasing tons of carbon into the air?

Same thing with solar, scaling up to produce more energy from this method takes up more habitat/land.

These are genuine questions... If these are the biggest issues people come up with, it's not a very good argument against alternative energy.
Maybe if I'm bored enough, I'll do a calculation of how much land we need to replace our energy needs with solar fields. But i'm kinda tired right now.

You're right, those are weak ass reasons against alternative energy. The real reason is money.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:08 PM   #52
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Solar/wind aren't practical on a large enough scale to be significant, solar panels are very dirty to make and aren't very efficient once they are made. For cars, anything with battery systems are nasty to make because of all the shit in the batteries that has to be shipped all over the place and then dealt with when the battery is fried 5 years later. Cargo ships are notoriously nasty things compared to cars, so the ship used to transport all the batteries will likely offset any gains from running on electrics anyways.

The move to actually cleaner energy I understand from a pollution perspective, the whole climate change schmozzle is a different story since the last I checked nobody could conclusively prove that climate change was actually human caused.
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Old 12-12-2014, 11:58 PM   #53
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last I checked nobody could conclusively prove that climate change was actually human caused.
Where did you last check? because outside the fanatical right wing fringe, it seems to be the scientific consensus.

I have been agnostic on that issue for years, but everything I look to that isn't written by nutjobs suggests that...
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Old 12-13-2014, 12:00 AM   #54
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Maybe if I'm bored enough, I'll do a calculation of how much land we need to replace our energy needs with solar fields. But i'm kinda tired right now.

You're right, those are weak ass reasons against alternative energy. The real reason is money.
Those are practical problems that need practical solutions. Obviously solar power isn't the solution to everything - it depends on the scale. To even suggest using solar panels to replace all our energy needs... you must be tired if you're not just being sarcastic.

The most practical clean energy is of course nuclear, but I really hope we can find a way to use it more efficiently. Having piles of nuclear waste sitting around can't be good.
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Old 12-13-2014, 03:05 AM   #55
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I see dropping gas prices as incentive to hoon
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:47 AM   #56
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well Lockheed has their bets on having an operational fusion based reactor in 10 years, it's already been in the works for 4 years.

They're dumping a lot of money into alternative energy sector to hedge against cutbacks on military spending.

I think we will see an exponential increase in the rise of efficiency in alternative energy in the next few decades... and that's when we'll have TRUE population problems.
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Greebo i t-boned some guy and killed their baby, it was funny
silvia i have a couple asian guy friends that do very well with the ladies. but guess what, they go to the gym, they dont have long hair, they dont wear orange pants, and they dont play counterstrike. its not the ethnicity that the girls dont like, its the style and personality.
450HP Supra I am about to use your eye sockets as a shoe rack for my nuts. ...something about chinks, j-bodys, I can't quite remember as I was drunk and looking for a girl to punch in the clit. Think of it as a digital urinal, and you are the mint, except, instead of actually smelling mint, you smell like mothballs, rotten kimchee and virginity. I'm about to start drinking heavily now and you better be gone before I get back or I swear to god I will break the internet over my knee and use the pieces to beat you in the deformed skull with, cock muffler.
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Old 12-13-2014, 08:23 AM   #57
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well Lockheed has their bets on having an operational fusion based reactor in 10 years, it's already been in the works for 4 years.
Yeah those Lockheed Martin claims are pretty big. Fusion has also been 50 years away, every year.

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The most practical clean energy is of course nuclear, but I really hope we can find a way to use it more efficiently. Having piles of nuclear waste sitting around can't be good.
There's also the idea of have a mini reactor for every neighbourhood kicking around too. There are new reactors out there that use spent fuel too. From what I understand, progress is so slow in the nuclear industry because there's so much red tape and regulation. It's warranted of course.

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I think we will see an exponential increase in the rise of efficiency in alternative energy in the next few decades... and that's when we'll have TRUE population problems.
One day our population problem will be so bad, we'll have collapsed all the fish stocks and will be reduced to eating algae pellets. I don't see that happening in my lifetime though.

I think climate change is going to happen whether it be natural or human. But the human cause makes it happen waaaay faster. I for one would like Canada to get warmer. LOL
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Old 12-13-2014, 09:37 AM   #58
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Hmmmm global population is expected to settle at around 10B with only Asia and Africa seeing significant increases in population - if I'm not mistaken the Americas will only see an additional 1B at most, and this side of the planet can easily support that population. (Fertility rates drop as life expectancy increases)

Projections of population growth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Clean energy is no doubt the future, the biggest change imo will be the increase in centralization and use of mass transit, incorporation of energy reduction in planning and construction of the cities of the future etc. We will still use oil/gas but hybrids will be the new norm and we will be well beyond a simple catalityc converter to reduce emissions. Urban sprawl will die a well deserved and painful death.

I'm actually strangely optimistic about the future for being such a realist lol though I will say that I feel less optimistic regarding certain geographic areas... Namely the Middle East and Africa... I think China will do alright if they actually straighten out their political problems.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:12 AM   #59
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THIS is what gas price supposed to be!

Sure, the price of gas was cheap, but the fuel economy of vehicles was terrible back then.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:36 AM   #60
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Solar Power is bad because when we take all the energy from the Sun we won't have a Sun anymore.
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Old 12-15-2014, 03:54 PM   #61
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But diesel is still expensive!
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:59 PM   #62
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:00 PM   #63
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Sure, the price of gas was cheap, but the fuel economy of vehicles was terrible back then.
Take your fist out of your anus and tell me how much better mpg Honda has gotten from now vs the 80's hondas
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Old 12-16-2014, 07:05 AM   #64
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i think he's probably referring to the good old 5L's and other muscle cars of the day compared to the higher horsepower much better fuel economy versions of today
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:35 AM   #65
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Bit of a rough ride today for us who are short oil.
Don't get scared.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:22 AM   #66
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Bit of a rough ride today for us who are short oil.
Don't get scared.
it's a bull trap. they're all gonna go hang themselves in the washroom over the next few weeks.
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nipples neways...wat is with those fuck'n asians! i mean you would think they've never seen a dentist in their life. are dentists really that rare over there in ricey ricey and? looks like they're star trek ferrengi rejects! fuck'n have broken glass for teeth! goddaymn! and the smell....did a rat crawl in there and shit itself then marinate in its own shit as it decayed?ewwwwwwwwww! i swear...if one of those ferrengi asian girls gave head...when u pull the dick out it looks like it went thru a meat grinder! prolly shaved off a few slices of meat! *shudder*
Greebo i t-boned some guy and killed their baby, it was funny
silvia i have a couple asian guy friends that do very well with the ladies. but guess what, they go to the gym, they dont have long hair, they dont wear orange pants, and they dont play counterstrike. its not the ethnicity that the girls dont like, its the style and personality.
450HP Supra I am about to use your eye sockets as a shoe rack for my nuts. ...something about chinks, j-bodys, I can't quite remember as I was drunk and looking for a girl to punch in the clit. Think of it as a digital urinal, and you are the mint, except, instead of actually smelling mint, you smell like mothballs, rotten kimchee and virginity. I'm about to start drinking heavily now and you better be gone before I get back or I swear to god I will break the internet over my knee and use the pieces to beat you in the deformed skull with, cock muffler.
Iceman-19 If your gf cooks and cleans, good, tell the guy to take a fucking hike. If she doesnt, fuck, that joker can have her. Lifes too short to cook your own meals and do your own laundry, thats what women are for!
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Old 12-17-2014, 04:44 PM   #67
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Sweet so save 800 a year on gas but make 60k less working commercial..
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Old 12-17-2014, 04:45 PM   #68
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:01 PM   #69
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The rubble is crashing.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:09 PM   #70
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The rubble is crashing.
it can say it's probably on purpose.

the purpose though, i duno.
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nipples neways...wat is with those fuck'n asians! i mean you would think they've never seen a dentist in their life. are dentists really that rare over there in ricey ricey and? looks like they're star trek ferrengi rejects! fuck'n have broken glass for teeth! goddaymn! and the smell....did a rat crawl in there and shit itself then marinate in its own shit as it decayed?ewwwwwwwwww! i swear...if one of those ferrengi asian girls gave head...when u pull the dick out it looks like it went thru a meat grinder! prolly shaved off a few slices of meat! *shudder*
Greebo i t-boned some guy and killed their baby, it was funny
silvia i have a couple asian guy friends that do very well with the ladies. but guess what, they go to the gym, they dont have long hair, they dont wear orange pants, and they dont play counterstrike. its not the ethnicity that the girls dont like, its the style and personality.
450HP Supra I am about to use your eye sockets as a shoe rack for my nuts. ...something about chinks, j-bodys, I can't quite remember as I was drunk and looking for a girl to punch in the clit. Think of it as a digital urinal, and you are the mint, except, instead of actually smelling mint, you smell like mothballs, rotten kimchee and virginity. I'm about to start drinking heavily now and you better be gone before I get back or I swear to god I will break the internet over my knee and use the pieces to beat you in the deformed skull with, cock muffler.
Iceman-19 If your gf cooks and cleans, good, tell the guy to take a fucking hike. If she doesnt, fuck, that joker can have her. Lifes too short to cook your own meals and do your own laundry, thats what women are for!
http://ho316.tumblr.com
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:19 PM   #71
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it can say it's probably on purpose.

the purpose though, i duno.
To put pressure on the Russians.

Why else would the US start dipping into their own oil reserves.

It's also really funny how just as Russia seems to show a steadiness, the US signals for more sanctions. Its like they have a belt around Russia's neck, and every time the country exhales a little sigh of relief, the US tightens that belt even further.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:47 PM   #72
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Russia fucked around trying to take over the European natural gas industry. They failed hard and are now suffering the consequences.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:51 PM   #73
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Russia fucked around trying to take over the European natural gas industry. They failed hard and are now suffering the consequences.
Bingo. (At least IMO)
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:53 PM   #74
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It is more like Saudi wants to pressure Iran and Qatar to fold.. and also make sure the tarsands and North Dakota crude is not economically viable (might not be a bad thing for us, at least it will get the environmentalists off our backs for a while).

Russia is just a side show. It is not even OPEC.

Either way, Russia is and will be the only economical LNG supplier to Europe (a lot of fracking projects in Europe turn up bubkuss) .. Europe right now just wants a regime change, because they know Russia holds them by the balls.

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Russia fucked around trying to take over the European natural gas industry. They failed hard and are now suffering the consequences.

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Old 12-18-2014, 08:24 AM   #75
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Maybe relevant to the climate change discussion. What It Would Really Take to Reverse Climate Change - IEEE Spectrum
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