Proposed ICBC holds on people with unpaid student loans

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by Timpo

it's not that simple, more people lose their license, which means more people lose their jobs. Less tax income for government & more people go on welfare, it's just gonna cost tax payer more money.

Fuck that. If you're unethical enough to just "not pay", then whatever job you have that requires a driving license isn't warranted.

If you got your job with your degree, then pay them back. The payments aren't ridiculous either - if you're making a decent salary (since you're a grad), and it's not terribly difficult. As mentioned, you can also defer payments, etc, if you're having financial hardship.

I hate ICBC (their greed, their drive for profit, etc.) as much as the next guy, but I also hate ignorant fucks who piggyback off of righteous people - these are the assholes who want everything they think they deserve, while not giving back anything, not even the bare minimum of what it means to be a functioning member of society.

[Timpo]

maybe government shouldn't be giving out student loan so easily.
people need to learn how to save money first, once they have money, go back to school.

people having hard time paying off what? $25,000-$30,000?
If you work your ass off, you might be able to save that much money in 1-3 years depending on what job you have.

so graduate high school, work hard, then go back to school.

[van_city23]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

incorrect? at least not the case few years back.

I went through it recently. If you're not less than 4 years out of high school, then no parent info needed. If are less than 4, u have to put their details in but I'm certain they don't sign or take any responsibility. Do correct me if I'm wrong. I went through it 3 years ago.

[quasi]

Originally Posted by Timpo

maybe government shouldn't be giving out student loan so easily.

Do they give them out that easy? When I went back to school in 2000 I couldn't get a student loan because I was still working and they said I made to much money. I had to go to the bank and get a line of credit so I could go work during the morning/early afternoon and go to school late afternoon/nights, I did that for 2 years full years.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Timpo

maybe government shouldn't be giving out student loan so easily.
people need to learn how to save money first, once they have money, go back to school.

people having hard time paying off what? $25,000-$30,000?
If you work your ass off, you might be able to save that much money in 1-3 years depending on what job you have.

so graduate high school, work hard, then go back to school.

How many high school grads are saving $8.3k-$30k/year fresh out of school?

Most would be working for near minimum wage.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by quasi

Do they give them out that easy? When I went back to school in 2000 I couldn't get a student loan because I was still working and they said I made to much money. I had to go to the bank and get a line of credit so I could go work during the morning/early afternoon and go to school late afternoon/nights, I did that for 2 years full years.

They check bank statements for you and your parents, and if they have any RESP's, etc. They also check to see if you have any assets under your name (car, mainly) that you can sell.

But what some chumps will do is they'll "fake" poverty just so they can get a big loan, even though they have the cash.

[Timpo]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

They check bank statements for you and your parents, and if they have any RESP's, etc. They also check to see if you have any assets under your name (car, mainly) that you can sell.

But what some chumps will do is they'll "fake" poverty just so they can get a big loan, even though they have the cash.

why would you "fake" poverty to get a loan?

I heard some dishonest people fake poverty to get a welfare, but for loan, you have to pay back with interest. At least that's the premise.

[flagella]

Ever heard of time value of money? If I can borrow $40,000 now to invest, and only to pay back without any interest later as soon as I graduate, of course I would obtain the loan. The interest only start to accumulate after 6 months of graduation IIRC.

[bananana]

I hope I'm not too late to join the discussion.

I kind of understand where the Government and this proposed bill is coming from, as people escaping their student loans is costing us taxpayers a ton of money. But with most any new legislation, presidence needs to be carefully considered. It's always a slippery slope with these kinds of things.

I absolutely cannot agree with unnecessarily giving more power to our Government.

Yes, I get that driving is a privilege but considering our transit system, it is also a necessity. You simply cannot get around (with any efficiency anyways) with our low population density and our inversely large geographic area.

ICBC as a mechanism is not designed for this and would need to revamp their internal infrastructure, or at least add some sort of new department -- for which enforcing student loan payback, logically -- for any for-profit corporation, Government run or not, could only be the first step.

Politically, student loan debt-payback is obviously something easy to rally for, especially since most of us have had to or are still paying back ours. This is a fairly logical position to argue this type of legislation.

But it's too much of a stretch. If they were to consider not giving out passports maybe, just maybe -- and it's a pretty small maybe, I'd agree, but ICBC is an insurance company, simple as that. This is not a mechanism for punishment or enforcing miscellaneous Government debts.

I'm totally against this proposed methodology and I think everyone should be against such an erosion of our freedoms as well.

[Mr.HappySilp]

^^ If they can't even pay their debt, they have no business to get a car or get insurance for it.

I am all for it. The only way to actually make people start paying is to hurt them where it hurts.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by bananana

I absolutely cannot agree with unnecessarily giving more power to our Government.

I have a hard time considering it unnecessary when over 90% of the loans aren't being paid back.

Originally Posted by bananana

Yes, I get that driving is a privilege but considering our transit system, it is also a necessity. You simply cannot get around (with any efficiency anyways) with our low population density and our inversely large geographic area.

Then maybe people should think of that before they go skimping on their loan repayment. It's their own damn fault if they can't be bothered to ensure they have access to a privilege by either paying their loan or filling out some papers.

[bananana]

Originally Posted by underscore

I have a hard time considering it unnecessary when over 90% of the loans aren't being paid back.



Then maybe people should think of that before they go skimping on their loan repayment. It's their own damn fault if they can't be bothered to ensure they have access to a privilege by either paying their loan or filling out some papers.

Originally Posted by bananana

But it's too much of a stretch. If they were to consider not giving out passports maybe, just maybe -- and it's a pretty small maybe, I'd agree, but ICBC is an insurance company, simple as that. This is not a mechanism for punishment or enforcing miscellaneous Government debts.

I'm not against, in any way, a recovery mechanism for unpaid student loan debt. I'm against ICBC being used for this purpose.

[Klobbersaurus]

Originally Posted by bananana

Yes, I get that driving is a privilege but considering our transit system, it is also a necessity. You simply cannot get around (with any efficiency anyways) with our low population density and our inversely large geographic area.

if a guy in detroit can walk 21 miles to work, these freeloaders can afford to wake up 2 hours early to get to work on time on our transit system

[bananana]

Another thing to add to the debate:

Currently, individuals with delinquent accounts (150-270 days past-due) of outstanding student loan debt are unable to receive tax returns, dividends from shares or receive lottery winnings without the money being first appropriated to the unpaid debt.

"When you default on the federal portion of your student loan, the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) handles collections to retrieve the money owed to the Government of Canada. They can withhold your GST cheques or income tax refund and apply that amount to your defaulted debt..."
Source: What happens if you default on student loans

Considering that it's almost impossible to not at the very least file a tax return, it's obvious that a large portion of this unpaid debt is coming from individuals that probably do not live in the country -- and would be unaffected by ICBC as a mechanism for enforcement.

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by bananana

Another thing to add to the debate:

Currently, individuals with outstanding student loan debt are unable to receive tax returns, dividends from shares or receive lottery winnings without the money being first appropriated to the unpaid debt.

Considering that it's almost impossible to not at the very least file a tax return, it's obvious that a large portion of this unpaid debt is coming from individuals that probably do not live in the country -- and would be unaffected by ICBC as a mechanism for enforcement.

I'm going to assume that by "outstanding" you mean in collection mode; I still have student loans in repayment and I receive tax returns just fine.

Also, you are not eligible for a student loan unless you're at least a Permanent Resident, if not a Citizen of Canada. So unless you're saying Canadians are defecting to other countries to not pay back their loan, provide proof that

it's obvious that a large portion of this unpaid debt is coming from individuals that probably do not live in the country

[SpeedStars]

Talking about student loans, I had received one last year and was requested to pay after the end of my first year. I have yet to graduate and they said that if I chose not to pay they would tack on a 1.9% interest rate every month following the 30 day grace period after the end of my first year. I legit have no idea why I have to repay so early, but meh, the payments are only like $60 a month

[inv4zn]

Originally Posted by SpeedStars

Talking about student loans, I had received one last year and was requested to pay after the end of my first year. I have yet to graduate and they said that if I chose not to pay they would tack on a 1.9% interest rate every month following the 30 day grace period after the end of my first year. I legit have no idea why I have to repay so early, but meh, the payments are only like $60 a month

The grace period is 6 months, not 30 days. Also even if you don't get more loans, as long as you provide proof of enrollment, the grace period doesn't begin as far as I remember.

Also the interest rate is calculated at prime + %.

So, from everything you've said, it's either not a "Canada" student loan and rather a private one (through a bank or something), or the person you talked to really didn't like you lol

[underscore]

Originally Posted by bananana

Another thing to add to the debate:

Currently, individuals with outstanding student loan debt are unable to receive tax returns, dividends from shares or receive lottery winnings without the money being first appropriated to the unpaid debt.

Considering that it's almost impossible to not at the very least file a tax return, it's obvious that a large portion of this unpaid debt is coming from individuals that probably do not live in the country -- and would be unaffected by ICBC as a mechanism for enforcement.

Those only work if the person would be getting a return, dividends, or lotto winnings. And even then, how many people are getting a significant enough return to make a dent in a loan worth tens of thousands of dollars?

[bananana]

Originally Posted by inv4zn

I'm going to assume that by "outstanding" you mean in collection mode; I still have student loans in repayment and I receive tax returns just fine.

Also, you are not eligible for a student loan unless you're at least a Permanent Resident, if not a Citizen of Canada. So unless you're saying Canadians are defecting to other countries to not pay back their loan, provide proof that

You are in repayment. My post was regarding defaulted loans. Also, It is quite easy to receive Permanent Resident status -- who are eligible for student loans.

[bananana]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

^^ If they can't even pay their debt, they have no business to get a car or get insurance for it.

I am all for it. The only way to actually make people start paying is to hurt them where it hurts.

Remember that we live in a forward-thinking country that believes in restorative justice. Of course this is far from a criminal justice issue, but this thinking is ingrained within all areas of our constitutional rights. This is the kind of research-backed thinking that elevates Canada above many other countries.

The Government is not tasked with the pursuit of petty revenge on behalf of angered citizens. Perhaps we should follow the example of Saudi Arabia and give 1000 lashes, or better yet, remove the hands of anyone caught defaulting on their loans?

I don't get where the fails are coming from but keep 'em coming. I'm not against finding methods of retrieving defaulted debts from the type of asshole that would default on paying back what would be considered an extremely generous assistance program. I finally paid back over $50,000 of student loans just last year. I'm just worried about an erosion of rights through this particular mechanism of enforcement.

[Tapioca]

^ That's a shitty analogy. We're hardly en route to a slippery slope that involves an invasion of privacy that is tantamount to punishment by decapitations.

I get the human capital aspect - it's important for a government to invest in its citizens. However, the government has to have some means of recovering the costs of that investment - whether it's through increased taxation, or recovering a loan that it has paid interest on.

It's tough for people who have attended post-secondary over the last 10 years. Costs have skyrocketed and the return on investment has shrunk for many programs (even if you went the trade route). On the other hand, I made it through university and my 20s with a shitty Honda and I lived at home for the duration of my post-secondary schooling. I got co-op jobs, worked part-time during school, got scholarships, and didn't have to take out any student loans. I still did stupid stuff that any 20-something does like getting drunk at the bar. It wasn't until the age of 28 that I finally bought a money pit of a car (i.e. A BMW). Some food for thought.

[Berzerker]

If people don't pay child support they get their wages garnished. Why does this not apply to student loans? Wouldn't wage garnishment be easier and more effective than using ICBC and giving them even more power over the populous than they already have?

Berz out.

[Mancini]

I don't like this kind of interconnectedness even if I agree that some collection measures need to be taken. This certainly isn't it.

How about ICBC withholding licensing for overdue library fees. Or for people late with their credit card payment.

[meowjinboo]

Canada Student Loan Rehabilitation - CanLearn

I defaulted. I lost my job last year and was unemployed for about 6 months and went into some dark brooding avoidance.

Im back on track but this is useful to get your shit together.

[Inaii]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

If people don't pay child support they get their wages garnished. Why does this not apply to student loans? Wouldn't wage garnishment be easier and more effective than using ICBC and giving them even more power over the populous than they already have?

Berz out.

They actually do get garnished. Just takes a lot longer and they have to have ignored CRA/Student Loan people for years (no contact whatsoever).