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If I wasn't so excited, I would take a moment to feel bad about the current owners... literally the base model that's $39,995 now is the exact same car as the new one at $29,995 except the new one will have cloth instead of leather.
__________________ I'm old now - boring street cars and sweet race cars.
Enhancements for the 2016 model year include the addition of a new Deep Blue Pearl exterior color and a new available BoseŽ audio system incorporating Active Noise Cancellation (ANC) and Active Sound Enhancement (ASE). The ANC system generates canceling sound to remove undesirable low frequency engine noise, while preserving invigorating sounds of engine performance, providing a more “pure” sound. The ASE enhances natural engine sounds to help bolster the driver’s acceleration experience.
how much is the cheapest one with leather or can you add it on as an option?
the (carcinogenic?) smell of new leather seats is priceless doe
that's a seriously good deal...esp the old ones that will drop to 20K on used market
I always thought the V6 was a gas hog? That's a half decent milage for 350hp/276ftlbs http://www.fuelly.com/car/nissan/370z
to think that RSX-S used to run $33K before the days of Gen Coupe and FRS/BRZ
332hp for 30k, or 200hp for 25k.... it seems like a no brainer to me.
This won't be good for FRS/BRZ sales at all.
Still 2 different cars. Totally different driving dynamic. Beside both being rwd. FRS light nimble, better seating position imo than 370z and more visibility, frd actually make you work to get the power corners like its on rail. Also got room for 2 midgets or a complete set of tires for track. Toyota/subaru put their focus on balance for this car, from weight distribution to engine choice. Definately wasn't trying to impress anyone by number along, rather by the feel of driving it
370z big heavy gt like cruiser that only seats 2. Feel more luxurious. Comes with 100 blind spots. Powerful, the power is always there but it's almost impossible to drive the car at 10/10 for an average driver. Most of the focus on money for the car is spent on straight line rather than the curves. Imo Nissan here is trying to win the numbers game. Look how much horsey It has and how cheap it is.
2 different cars for 2 different style of driving. Sure you can add power to the frs or better handling to the 370z but stock for stock they are clearly meant for two different kind of drivers
What threezero basically said. While the power a 370Z has is nice, it feels like a boat compared to the Toyobaru twins. Other than power, I preferred everything about the FRS/BRZ over the 370Z.
If I was looking for power, I would probably put this and a Mustang into the mix but to me, the driving feel is more important. While this looks EXTREMELY attractive on paper, you'd have to drive both cars and see how you like them. I've already made up my mind, I can live with 200HP/151lb/ft
Still 2 different cars. Totally different driving dynamic. Beside both being rwd. FRS light nimble, better seating position imo than 370z and more visibility, frd actually make you work to get the power corners like its on rail. Also got room for 2 midgets or a complete set of tires for track. Toyota/subaru put their focus on balance for this car, from weight distribution to engine choice. Definately wasn't trying to impress anyone by number along, rather by the feel of driving it
370z big heavy gt like cruiser that only seats 2. Feel more luxurious. Comes with 100 blind spots. Powerful, the power is always there but it's almost impossible to drive the car at 10/10 for an average driver. Most of the focus on money for the car is spent on straight line rather than the curves. Imo Nissan here is trying to win the numbers game. Look how much horsey It has and how cheap it is.
2 different cars for 2 different style of driving. Sure you can add power to the frs or better handling to the 370z but stock for stock they are clearly meant for two different kind of drivers
While it's not the only measure of the ever elusive "handling" game, a stock FRS does a paltry 0.89G on the skidpad while a 370Z delivers .97G out of the box, a pretty massive improvement. At autocross in stock class they were classed in the same class with equal preparation allowances for tires, etc. and at the highest levels of competition, the 370Z absolutely dominated the FRS to the point they had to reclass it.
I agree with you very much that they are 2 different cars for 2 different styles of driving but I disagree most of the rest of your post. You say things like "Toyota focused on the weight distribution" ... err, at 53/47 it's actually identical to the 370Z.
I really think Nissan didn't just show up with more hp, they showed up with more CAR - it's got more engine, bigger brakes, wheels/tires, much nicer interior, it goes on and on. At $39k vs $27k for an FRS it made sense but at $29,900 it's going to be a HUGE challenge for FRS sales moving forward IMO.
Mark
__________________ I'm old now - boring street cars and sweet race cars.
I mean frs was a hard sell from the get go. It looks exotic but has less horsey and is less powerful than a family sedan. I suppose for most ppl Frs will disappoint you at first drive. but it is truly design for an enthusiast. I'm not compare things for things between frs and 370z I'm comparing the ideology behind two cars.
You are right 370z brought a lot of car for the price. And that was their exact ideology behind the 370. Pack big engine, big brakes etc etc. I mean on theory if you put all of those big things together you are suppose to end up with a superior car. Car is just a sum of its parts.
Frs on the other hand was aiming to be a car for the driving experience and even have various timbits for the track enthusiast. Doesn't have the much brag worthy parts and specs but it's how everything was meticulously chosen and put together for the experience.
Anybody that has driven any low power older cars would be able to understand why the smile per miles is not measure by any speed and power along
I mean frs was a hard sell from the get go. It looks exotic but has less horsey and is less powerful than a family sedan. I suppose for most ppl Frs will disappoint you at first drive. but it is truly design for an enthusiast. I'm not compare things for things between frs and 370z I'm comparing the ideology behind two cars.
You are right 370z brought a lot of car for the price. And that was their exact ideology behind the 370. Pack big engine, big brakes etc etc. I mean on theory if you put all of those big things together you are suppose to end up with a superior car. Car is just a sum of its parts.
Frs on the other hand was aiming to be a car for the driving experience and even have various timbits for the track enthusiast. Doesn't have the much brag worthy parts and specs but it's how everything was meticulously chosen and put together for the experience.
Anybody that has driven any low power older cars would be able to understand why the smile per miles is not measure by any speed and power along
I understand 100% where you are coming from.
BUT...
Ask any racer, any real racer. It doesn't matter if it handles like a boat and kicks like a donkey, being faster is all that matters.
Nice just as how the Z is suppose to be ever since the 240Z. An affordable sports car for all.
350Z prices dropping... 300zx twin turbo prices rising (friend sold his for 24,000 USD last month) and it looked like this ... 240z prices rising too...
Anybody that has driven any low power older cars would be able to understand why the smile per miles is not measure by any speed and power along
Trust me, I know a good car is not all about HP. I drive a 100hp 1986 Corolla lol and it never fails to put a big smile on my face every time I drive it.
I really do want the FRS to succeed, mostly because I'd like to buy one after landing a big-boy career and saving up for a down payment on a home.
But what I mean is that for the average consumer, i.e., not most of us who recognize that an FRS is more than the sum of its parts with respect to driving experience, it'll be a lot harder to justify the price of the FRS/BRZ when the 370Z is only 5-6k more (with a BRZ this price gap will be smaller).
This car is likely going to cater to all the people who think the FRS is "too slow" or has "not enough power".... IMO, you can lose your license driving both. So to me, driving a "slow car fast" is way more appealing. Just that other people won't see it that way.
With 245 front, and 275 rear high performance tires, of course the 370Z will out grip the FRS with the measly 215 "Prius" tires by a large margin. I am not familiar with the episode when the 370Z was classed in CS, but assigning that classification to the Z was more of a mistaken on the SEB's part than a suggestion that the 2 cars were equals.
With the weight distribution / balance thing, I suspect that threezero was really trying to refer to 1) weight, and 2) dynamic balance. It's just that his words came out wrong. There is no denying that Z is a 3300+ lbs pig compared to a 2700+ lbs medium weight car. 600 lbs is a LOT! I have never driven a Z car before, so I don't know how they handle, but I suspect that with that much power on tap, it can easily do power slides at will.
In that sense, I disagree that the Z offers more "car" than the FRS. I think it just offers a different car than the FRS. A lot of people are going to be attracted to the Z by its very attractive price and the package it offers, and the FRS is going to become an even more difficult sell in the face of this competitor.
And one more thing -- don't forget that the ND Miata is gonna become available for sale as well. And it'll come with its 155 hp engine. As much as I love the Miata, I really don't know how the car is gonna be able to fare against its competitors...
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowside67
While it's not the only measure of the ever elusive "handling" game, a stock FRS does a paltry 0.89G on the skidpad while a 370Z delivers .97G out of the box, a pretty massive improvement. At autocross in stock class they were classed in the same class with equal preparation allowances for tires, etc. and at the highest levels of competition, the 370Z absolutely dominated the FRS to the point they had to reclass it.
I agree with you very much that they are 2 different cars for 2 different styles of driving but I disagree most of the rest of your post. You say things like "Toyota focused on the weight distribution" ... err, at 53/47 it's actually identical to the 370Z.
I really think Nissan didn't just show up with more hp, they showed up with more CAR - it's got more engine, bigger brakes, wheels/tires, much nicer interior, it goes on and on. At $39k vs $27k for an FRS it made sense but at $29,900 it's going to be a HUGE challenge for FRS sales moving forward IMO.
On twists and turns and a track sure, but for daily driving I'm getting really sick of underpowered vehicles. And lets be honest, the vast majority of 86/Z/Genesis owners just use them as DD's.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
With 245 front, and 275 rear high performance tires, of course the 370Z will out grip the FRS with the measly 215 "Prius" tires by a large margin. I am not familiar with the episode when the 370Z was classed in CS, but assigning that classification to the Z was more of a mistaken on the SEB's part than a suggestion that the 2 cars were equals.
With the weight distribution / balance thing, I suspect that threezero was really trying to refer to 1) weight, and 2) dynamic balance. It's just that his words came out wrong. There is no denying that Z is a 3300+ lbs pig compared to a 2700+ lbs medium weight car. 600 lbs is a LOT! I have never driven a Z car before, so I don't know how they handle, but I suspect that with that much power on tap, it can easily do power slides at will.
In that sense, I disagree that the Z offers more "car" than the FRS. I think it just offers a different car than the FRS. A lot of people are going to be attracted to the Z by its very attractive price and the package it offers, and the FRS is going to become an even more difficult sell in the face of this competitor.
And one more thing -- don't forget that the ND Miata is gonna become available for sale as well. And it'll come with its 155 hp engine. As much as I love the Miata, I really don't know how the car is gonna be able to fare against its competitors...
i agree with lowside.. it is more car not just from a specs point of view, but the fit , finish, chassis, etc is better in the z than in the frs. it is a nicer street car. however it also comes with larger maintenance costs.
the frs is cheap on the inside, cheap plastics, materials, and the engine is a snore, it sounds terrible, lacks torque, and just feels anemic. the frs might feel nimble on the street but in a stock vs stock situation at autox, the frs at the limit is not that enjoyable except through a slalom. now an stx frs would be quite fun, but if we're comparing stock vs stock, the z takes it
it is two very different experiences, but as a street car the z wins hands down. the only thing holding the z back is the age old nissan issue of fuel starve through a corner.
i just feel the frs is overpriced and underpowered. im not quite sure what market they're targeting.. young enthusiasts .. then its too expensive. young professionals? then the fit and finish isnt there. performance drivers? then it doesnt quite have the excitement required.
i myself will be picking up the nd miata, altho underpowered, i want the low weight, open top, toy car. i only drive twice a week so i can live with the inconvenience of its size. it also appears to have made a step forward in the fit finish department as well, however it is also overpriced and underpowered. so who knows what will happen to it.. maybe all the early na/nb owners will be looking for a replacement
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... 240z prices rising too...
As much as I love the Miata, I really don't know how the car is gonna be able to fare against its competitors...
