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Old 06-03-2015, 09:34 PM   #76
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I agree with most in this thread that this individual deserves to feel the full force of the law (and more) ... but I don't agree that it's necessary to make reference to the driver's ethnicity. I assume you are attempting to layer in a stereotype to help make your point. Given the racist edge that adds to your comment and the fact that the driver was clearly and entirely at fault it was unnecessary.
Not trying to be racist here but native people are in fact, at risk for things like this. Not everybody, but many of them are. It's a well known fact in Canada.
Let's face it, even Government of Canada announces how large percentage of first nations are at risk for domestic violence, child prostitution, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, etc.
If you look at the website for recovery centres for first nations, they will show you all the data and statistics too.

Anyways, his comment was not too far from Chinese kids speeding Ferrari and Lamborghini in Richmond. Stereotypical? Perhaps, but it's also a fact too.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:46 PM   #77
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the story was referring to his passenger pierre st paul jr, who was also killed...he was the one respected on both sides of the community...as per the driver, who knows...doubtful, however.

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the news story had like a minute thing on how the driver got along "with both sides, the whites and us" in interviews within the community

i dont think my comments went nearly as far as the global news reporters coverage..
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:51 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Timpo View Post
Not trying to be racist here but native people are in fact, at risk for things like this. Not everybody, but many of them are. It's a well known fact in Canada.
Let's face it, even Government of Canada announces how large percentage of first nations are at risk for domestic violence, child prostitution, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, etc.
If you look at the website for recovery centres for first nations, they will show you all the data and statistics too.

Anyways, his comment was not too far from Chinese kids speeding Ferrari and Lamborghini in Richmond. Stereotypical? Perhaps, but it's also a fact too.
Timpo - I don't disagree that there are studies that speak to the fact that First Nations youth (and adults) are often at risk for alcohol and substance abuse but so to are youth from any ethnicity if their upbringing is particularly impoverished or unstable. The same studies show that First Nations youth are disproportionately exposed to these conditions - hence the connection. Genetically, no ethnicity is any more pre-dispositioned to alcohol abuse than any other. That's driven by environment.

That said - alcohol abuse or a challenging childhood is not an excuse for driving under the influence and slaughtering innocent cyclists. Every member of our society must be held accountable to the exact same standard as any other member regardless of wealth, background, ethnic origin, language, or religion.

To the original point - citing "native" in this context is unnecessary. It's irrelevant that the accused is First Nations. If he was under the influence, regardless of background, the law should hammer him into the ground. He slaughtered two cyclists and killed a passenger and his history implies that it's unlikely that this pattern of abuse and reckless driving will change in the future. The accused chose to get into that vehicle. That was a personal choice and I pray he is crushed by the courts for that decision - a decision that NOBODY forced him to make.
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Old 06-03-2015, 10:54 PM   #79
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Natives to me are like a national treasure

They honestly deal with a lot of issues people just don't understand... I spent 7 years living in Yellowknife growing up and it really helped shift my perspective from ignorance to understanding.

Having said that, stats tell a story... And it's reasonable for people to stereotype... But it's a shame.

Natives are also the only source of any true Canadian identity IMO... So I think we should, as a Society, support them. That doesn't mean giving them breaks so they avoid jail time after DUI killing someone... It means giving communities the help they need, providing educational grants, encouraging them to preserve their history and be proud of it, etc.

Meh, super shitty how the general stereotype of drunk indians is so prevalent.
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Old 06-03-2015, 11:37 PM   #80
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7

You can say the same for bicycle on the roads.
some drunk driver is going to mow down group of cyclists.
so should we ban cars from the road for the safety of cyclists?

seems to me, bicycle on the side walks is better option for everyone

jst my 2cents
It's not quite the same, but if you move all the cyclists to the sidewalk, where the heck do people walk? Erratic pedestrians on the sidewalk would be arguably a more frequent hazard for a cyclist than cars are.
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Old 06-04-2015, 10:29 AM   #81
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Old 06-06-2015, 11:36 AM   #82
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Timpo - I don't disagree that there are studies that speak to the fact that First Nations youth (and adults) are often at risk for alcohol and substance abuse but so to are youth from any ethnicity if their upbringing is particularly impoverished or unstable. The same studies show that First Nations youth are disproportionately exposed to these conditions - hence the connection. Genetically, no ethnicity is any more pre-dispositioned to alcohol abuse than any other. That's driven by environment.

That said - alcohol abuse or a challenging childhood is not an excuse for driving under the influence and slaughtering innocent cyclists. Every member of our society must be held accountable to the exact same standard as any other member regardless of wealth, background, ethnic origin, language, or religion.

To the original point - citing "native" in this context is unnecessary. It's irrelevant that the accused is First Nations. If he was under the influence, regardless of background, the law should hammer him into the ground. He slaughtered two cyclists and killed a passenger and his history implies that it's unlikely that this pattern of abuse and reckless driving will change in the future. The accused chose to get into that vehicle. That was a personal choice and I pray he is crushed by the courts for that decision - a decision that NOBODY forced him to make.
ok I kinda get your point, everybody should be treated equally.

But the fact is that native people are entitled for so many benefits and support from the government. The harsh fact is that society will look at them as a tax taker, not tax payer...and use that tax for not very good cause like alcohol.

I understand that their ancestors got invaded 2 centuries ago, but I have seen so many people who strived to change their lives and succeeded too, without having all the support from government. And only took 1 generation to change.
There was a homeless girl who have gone to Harvard University without even having sufficient food, or I don't think entrepreneurs like Robert Herjavec had particularly good childhood either. There are countless people who worked their ass off to change their lives. Do large percentage of first nations people have enough drive/motivation to change their live? That's hard to say and giving out money isn't simply going to fix it.

I have seen so many native youth/kids think that they can't do anything because their natives. And society treat them as a difficult group and they will act like so. It's kinda like placebo effect. What if your background is native and if everybody treated like one of people with problems? Maybe you will start to believe that you're actually not that great.

I know jasonturbo said that first nations are treasure of Canada, which may be true but they need to act like so in the society because I have seen many of them who act very arrogant and rude.

Please don't get me wrong, because I personally know first nations people who are very polite and friendly, but the problem is, our government will keep advertise them as victims and difficult groups, and use our tax money to support that claim. Until that stops, unfortunately people will keep believing so. And yes, the world is not fair, we all know that. Myself included, I'm ignorant at many magnitude too.

Just like raising kids, if you raise your kids to believe in the way that he/she is capable of a lot of stuff, the chances are, they will start to believe so. If you put them down and tell them they're problematic, they will act like one. We're sort of doing this at national level. I think you're entitled for first nations benefit/compensation if you have 1/8 of first nations blood in you, which makes me wonder if that's even necessary.

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