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Old 08-04-2015, 11:10 PM   #1451
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You were expecting him to sign for Chris Higgins money, and less than Derrick Dorsett money??!?
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:35 PM   #1452
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Because he's making 3.3mill now.....
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:54 PM   #1453
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I'm more worried now about his consistent health especially in the western conference... He hasn't exactly been a model for durability in his relatively few years. I feel like we've got a less offensively potent but also less egotistical Kesler on our hands now...... injuries at key times included
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Old 08-04-2015, 11:56 PM   #1454
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4.3 mill because he can shut down kopitar / getzlaf/ thorton who are 6'4, dylan strome 6'3

mattias upgrade
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:02 AM   #1455
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Surprisingly I found a pretty point on cdc.

Quote:
in 2010, the canucks signed 30 year old manny malhotra to a 3 year contract worth $2.5 m per year. this accounted for 4.2% of the $59.4 m salary cap. malhotra was coming off a career high 14 goal season (no prior season in his 12 or so season career had he eclipsed 11 goals, and has not again since).
brandon sutter is 26 year old (4 years younger), has scored more than 20 goals twice and 17 goals once, may have untapped offensive capabilities, and brings many of the same defensive and intangible qualities that malhotra did. $4.4 m is 6.16% of the $71.4 m salary cap.
hardly seems unreasonable to me.
Based on percentages of the salary cap, it doesn't seem as bad though.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:15 AM   #1456
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Surprisingly I found a pretty point on cdc.



Based on percentages of the salary cap, it doesn't seem as bad though.
Two different players though. Manny was there to take the big faceoffs, PK and provide leadership. It wouldn't be fair to compare his point totals alone to salary. On the other hand people are expecting Sutter to score 40 and be the next Ryan Kesler.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:10 AM   #1457
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Two different players though. Manny was there to take the big faceoffs, PK and provide leadership. It wouldn't be fair to compare his point totals alone to salary. On the other hand people are expecting Sutter to score 40 and be the next Ryan Kesler.
Most people here are not expecting him to be the next Kesler. Most of these recent irrational comments are from noobs.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:02 AM   #1458
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We got a cheaper younger version of Kesler. His offensive output will be determined by the role hes given by coaches.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:24 AM   #1459
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We got a cheaper younger version of Luongo. Markstrom 6'6 frame output will be determined by the oppurtunity hes given by coaches.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:26 AM   #1460
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4.375 might not be bargain for Sutter right now, but in a few years depending on his performance and where the salary cap is at it could actually be decent in the later years of his contract. I just don't like the NTC, I thought the Canucks management group would have learnt not to hand them out like candy after what Gillis did.
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:28 AM   #1461
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We got a cheaper younger version of Luongo. Markstrom 6'6 frame output will be determined by the oppurtunity hes given by coaches.
Does that mean in a few years we'll trade Markstrom back to Florida while maintaining some of his salary?
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:30 AM   #1462
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Does that mean in a few years we'll trade Markstrom back to Florida while maintaining some of his salary?
Well we have demko who is in boston college same route cory took... maybe we will go through another goalie controversy
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Old 08-05-2015, 10:32 AM   #1463
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I dont mind a NTC on a guy like Sutter. Especially the reported 3 year into L-NTC or w/e

Now a NTC on a pair of 3rd line winger making 2.5 mil is a different story.
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Old 08-05-2015, 11:59 AM   #1464
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Malhotra was the best faceoff man in the league, routinely in the 60% area, and one of the best shutdown centres in the league.

Sutter has averaged 49.9% in the circle the past 3 seasons and is a good, but not great, shutdown centre. Offense is better, but not that much better.

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Old 08-05-2015, 12:04 PM   #1465
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Over half our team has NTCs. Even if we wanted to rebuild we couldn't...
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:10 PM   #1466
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Over half our team has NTCs. Even if we wanted to rebuild we couldn't...
Sutter doesn't have an NTC until July 1, 2016.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:12 PM   #1467
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Sutter doesn't have an NTC until July 1, 2016.
translation: Sutter might be a late first round/early 2nd round in March depending on his play and the Canucks season.
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:47 PM   #1468
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Over half our team has NTCs. Even if we wanted to rebuild we couldn't...
Ntc doesn't mean you can't move players. I thought we'd understand that by now. What player wants to keep playing for a team that doesn't really want them around?
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Old 08-05-2015, 01:51 PM   #1469
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Dim Jim Benning as a GM definitely has his "strengths" and weaknesses.

Strengths: A keen eye for drafting talented players to change the identity of the Canucks

Weaknesses: Questionable ability in making trades for players. Terrible negotiation skills when it comes to signing players, current player on roster or new players acquired by trade, to contract extensions. -gives out NTCs like
Halloween candy to players. Trick or treat!

Case in point, Sbisa and now Sutter.
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Old 08-05-2015, 02:33 PM   #1470
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Dim Jim Benning as a GM definitely has his "strengths" and weaknesses.

Strengths: A keen eye for drafting talented players to change the identity of the Canucks

Weaknesses: Questionable ability in making trades for players. Terrible negotiation skills when it comes to signing players, current player on roster or new players acquired by trade, to contract extensions. -gives out NTCs like
Halloween candy to players. Trick or treat!

Case in point, Sbisa and now Sutter.
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:31 PM   #1471
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Strengths: A keen eye for drafting talented players to change the identity of the Canucks
Who has he drafted with his keen eye that we know will change the identity of the Canucks? Until his picks pan or start looking like they will pan out, we can't assume based on his previous track record which I would say is maybe a bit better than avg.

Horvat, Cassels, even Subban were all drafted by Gillis and co. Yeah MG gave away lots of picks, but that's what happens when you throw it all up in the air and go for it
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:40 PM   #1472
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JB Strengths - seems to have that special ability to fast track tanking without making it seem like tanking

Just read on the province that McCann may have gotten a concussion. Poor kid can't get a break, hopefully it's nothing serious and that he'll be 100% for training camp
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Old 08-05-2015, 03:53 PM   #1473
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He hasn't exactly been a model for durability in his relatively few years.
You do know Sutters only missed a whopping grand total of 3 games in the last 5 seasons right?

That seems pretty durable to me
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:12 PM   #1474
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Full NTC for first 3 years.

Partial NTC for the remaining few years.

Where do you think that $25k/yr savings came from
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Old 08-05-2015, 04:52 PM   #1475
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Dim Jim Benning as a GM definitely has his "strengths" and weaknesses.

Strengths: A keen eye for drafting talented players to change the identity of the Canucks

Weaknesses: Questionable ability in making trades for players. Terrible negotiation skills when it comes to signing players, current player on roster or new players acquired by trade, to contract extensions. -gives out NTCs like
Halloween candy to players. Trick or treat!

Case in point, Sbisa and now Sutter.
Well, if you were trying to convince me that Jim Benning should be Director of Amateur Scouting, you have succeeded. Unfortunately, that's not his job.

Benning is giving Willie the team he wants. A team filled with hard-working individuals. That's what we saw last year; it didn't matter how many times you screwed up (Sbisa), if you tried your best, you got ice time. If you slacked off (Kassian), you got stapled to the bench or put in the press box.

All of Benning's acquisitions this offseason work their asses off, though are definitely less talented offensively and higher paid than the outgoing players.

The major drawback to this strategy is we've been a team that's lacked secondary scoring for all but a few years ('08-'09 through '10-'11) since the lockout and now we're heading in the opposite direction with our leading offensive players turning 35 before the season starts.

If you look at offensive production over the past 3 seasons (minimum 82 games played):

1st line (top 90) production:
H. Sedin - 0.833 p/g (24th), $7M (19th)
D. Sedin - 0.802 p/g (33rd), $7M (19th)
Vrbata - 0.734 p/g (52nd), $5M (66th)

2nd line (top 180) production:
None

3rd line (top 270) production:
Higgins - 0.447 p/g (196th), $2.5M (182nd)
Burrows - 0.445 p/g (198th), $4.5M (86th)
Hansen - 0.402 p/g (230th), $2.5M (182nd)
Sutter - 0.372 p/g (247th), $3.3M (148th)

4th line (top 360) production:
Vey - 0.309 p/g (285th), $1M (268th)
Prust - 0.259 p/g (321st), $2.5M (182nd)
Dorsett - 0.227 p/g (343rd), $2.65M (177th)

Now, if you transpose that:

1st line (top 90) cap hit:
D. Sedin - $7M (19th), 1st line production
H. Sedin - $7M (19th), 1st line production
Vrbata - $5M (66th), 1st line production
Burrows - $4.5M (86th), 3rd line production

2nd line (top 180) cap hit:
Sutter - $3.3M (148th), 3rd line production
Dorsett - $2.65M (177th), 4th line production

3rd line (top 270) cap hit:
Hansen - $2.5M (182nd), 3rd line production
Higgins - $2.5M (182nd), 3rd line production
Prust - $2.5M (182nd), 4th line production
Vey - $1M (268th), 4th line production

4th line (top 360) cap hit:
None

So Vrbata is the lone player whose performance is exceeding his salary. The Sedins, if you take out the Tortorella season, are in that category as well.

Higgins and Vey have pay grades that are pretty close to their offensive performance over the past few years. Hansen has middle of the road 3rd line production with higher-end 3rd line pay. Not outrageous.

Now, the guys who are pretty clearly not living up to their salaries are Burrows, Sutter (and, unless he starts trending up real fast, it's going to get a lot worse with a 33% pay increase coming), Dorsett, and Prust. 3 of these 4 are Benning acquisitions/signings and, as for Burrows, the Tortorella season brought him down much like the Sedins (though he's still definitely overpaid even when you consider the other 2 seasons).

Now, look at our outgoing players:

Bonino - 0.566 p/g (125th), $1.9M (210th)
Kassian - 0.354 p/g (255th), $1.75M (222nd)
Matthias - 0.349 p/g (260th), $2.3M (193rd)
Richardson - 0.340 p/g (270th), $2.083M (200th)

Bonino produced at an average 2nd liner pace while being paid as an above-average 3rd liner. His replacement, Sutter, produced at a below-average pace for a 3rd liner while being paid as an average 2nd liner.

Kassian produced at a below-average 3rd liner pace while being paid as an average 3rd liner. His replacement, Prust, produced at an average 4th liner pace while being paid as an above-average 3rd liner.

Offensively, we definitely took a step backwards with those trades while also giving up draft picks. We improved in other areas, though. But if the Sedins get shut down, we're even more fucked than we used to be unless Horvat and Baertschi are able to provide that secondary punch, but I'm not holding my breath.

Matthias and Richardson have no direct replacements, but I have no problem letting either of them go given the contracts they got. I'll miss Richardson, though, as his PK abilities were top notch and his points/minute were also very respectable, making the most of his ice time. That said, given his injury-plagued year and desire for a multi-year, multimillion dollar contract, no thanks.

Quote:
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Who has he drafted with his keen eye that we know will change the identity of the Canucks? Until his picks pan or start looking like they will pan out, we can't assume based on his previous track record which I would say is maybe a bit better than avg.

Horvat, Cassels, even Subban were all drafted by Gillis and co. Yeah MG gave away lots of picks, but that's what happens when you throw it all up in the air and go for it
Exactly, draft record is still unproven at this point.
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