REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum


Welcome to the REVscene Automotive Forum forums.

Registration is Free!You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.


Go Back   REVscene Automotive Forum > Automotive Chat > Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events

Vancouver Off-Topic / Current Events The off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-03-2015, 10:35 PM   #26
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 1,488
Thanked 1,499 Times in 415 Posts
got rear ended in low speed impact too. rode out 2 years of physio and back still fucked.

apparently city vehicles play with a different set of rules as advised by a lawyer. scum bags icbc workers didn't even tell me any of this and they are suppose to be experts in this field and help you out. so i got fucked because papers weren't filed in time and i couldn't get more further treatment from icbc past the 2 years.
Advertisement
__________________
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
SoNaRWaVe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2015, 11:39 PM   #27
My homepage has been set to RS
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 2,111
Thanked 755 Times in 339 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jmac View Post
In a front collision, it's best to relax but it's best to brace in a rear collision.
haha, so exactly the opposite of what a person can do.

If you can relax when an oncoming car is headed for you, *claps.
subordinate is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 07:05 AM   #28
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,700
Thanked 1,007 Times in 403 Posts
It's bullshit how perfect drivers have to pay for others' injury claims. It should just be the rate of individual insurance increase instead of the mass.

Guy A hits Guy B hard from the back. Guy B claim injuries (real or fraud), it should only come out of Guy A's insurance and Guy A's insurance premium will take a hit.

Why should the perfect guy that has been driving forever with no accidents have to pay more for others' fault?
mr_chin is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 07:23 AM   #29
I have named my kids VIC and VLS
 
Hondaracer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Off-Topic
Posts: 27,738
Thanked 7,284 Times in 2,576 Posts
Even if it's coming out of guy A's premiums, everyone is still paying for it. That's how "insurance" works. Their funds are generated by the people paying their premiums

Insurance in general is one of, if not the biggest scam of modern times. Although you'd be crying to the media like all the other losers if somthing happened and you didn't have it :/
__________________
Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Hondaracer is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 07:26 AM   #30
My homepage has been set to RS
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Surrey
Posts: 2,418
Thanked 1,468 Times in 560 Posts
Yeah how about raising the amount of discount you top out at for drivers who manage to not get in accidents, that would be nice
MarkyMark is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 07:28 AM   #31
RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
 
meme405's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,625
Thanked 7,179 Times in 2,177 Posts
Holy crap some of you guys must be made of glass. 15km/h and you are hurting from back pain? Not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't believe you. A healthy person should be able to take a lot more abuse than that.

Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.

I'd love to see the statistic on at fault driver claims vs. not at fault driver claims. I'm willing to bet at speeds less than 20 or 30 that one side is going to be almost 100% of the claims.
__________________

Barney Fucking Purple FX35
Brianna - 2008 FX35 - Build Thread
meme405 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 09:17 AM   #32
PM me for my nudes
 
smoothie.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 3,640
Thanked 3,353 Times in 886 Posts
most people aren't healthy, and might have old injuries.

15km/h from a semi would total your car.

but yes, there are a lot of fakers as well.

My injury from 4 years ago which I didn't feel more than being a bit sore at the time is really showing itself now, and there's pretty much nothing I can do about it. Sometimes its better to be safe, earlier.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonturbo View Post
Too bad it isn't about flipping cars to lose money, I'm really good at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkWorks View Post
This wouldn't happen if you didn't drive a peasant car like an Audi...
Quote:
[14-05, 14:59] FastAnna You tiny bra wearing, gigantic son of a bitch
[15-05, 10:35] FastAnna Yeah I was dreaming of those big titties in that tiny bra
Quote:
Originally Posted by westopher View Post
I'd probably blow someone for that 911
smoothie. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 09:40 AM   #33
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Timpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: ...
Posts: 20,379
Thanked 4,550 Times in 1,368 Posts
Yeah I got involved in a motorcycle accident couple years ago.

This 70 year old guy crossed the line and came up right in front of me, I was going at 50km/h and didn't have much time to brake so I probably smashed into his car at 40km/h.

I flipped over and rolled over on the ground like typical motorcycle accident. Luckly the injury was not life threatening or anything because I didn't have spinal cord injury or anything like that. There certainly was impact landing on the ground and all that.

The doctor told me that my injury was very similar to competitive athletes and he said he has dealt with these kinds of injury when he was working with competitive football and rugby players.

What I want to say is that my body could absorb some impact, as it supposed to and I could recover within couple months or so.
I do have a hard time believing when young and healthy people get hit at low velocity and claiming that they're suffering for more than 2 years. Maybe if you're an old man with health conditions, yeah I'd believe it but normal person should be fine.

Last edited by Timpo; 09-04-2015 at 09:48 AM.
Timpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 09:45 AM   #34
I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
 
Timpo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: ...
Posts: 20,379
Thanked 4,550 Times in 1,368 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Holy crap some of you guys must be made of glass. 15km/h and you are hurting from back pain? Not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't believe you. A healthy person should be able to take a lot more abuse than that.

Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.

I'd love to see the statistic on at fault driver claims vs. not at fault driver claims. I'm willing to bet at speeds less than 20 or 30 that one side is going to be almost 100% of the claims.
Yeah true. If you're living in a wild, like many people do in Africa, South America, Amazon and many Asian countries... you'd be dead in no time if you're that fragile.
We're living in a rich society where we have food, medical service, roof over the top, TV, smart phones, cars, etc.
Timpo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 09:56 AM   #35
Orgasm Donor & Alatar owned my ass twice!
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Vancouver BC
Posts: 16,349
Thanked 5,613 Times in 2,301 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Holy crap some of you guys must be made of glass. 15km/h and you are hurting from back pain? Not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't believe you. A healthy person should be able to take a lot more abuse than that.

Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.

I'd love to see the statistic on at fault driver claims vs. not at fault driver claims. I'm willing to bet at speeds less than 20 or 30 that one side is going to be almost 100% of the claims.
I doubt speed upon impact in rear-enders are ever really recorded. It's always by eyewitness or one's own memory and we know how unreliable those are during an accident. When someone says low impact and unless there's no noticable damage...the actual fact was probably closer to 20kph+...and those bumps are certainly not light. I would hazzard a guess most people aren't in the optimal seating position to minimize the impact (head turned away/looking around during red light etc)
__________________
My BST Feedback
twitchyzero is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 10:04 AM   #36
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
underscore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Kel-pwn-a
Posts: 11,975
Thanked 4,964 Times in 2,172 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.
I think part of it comes from the unexpected nature of the impact and the restraints in the car only holding part of your body, but I could be wrong.
__________________
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S // 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC FOR SALE // 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD

Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer View Post
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp View Post
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa View Post
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
underscore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 10:37 AM   #37
I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
 
AWDTurboLuvr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Montreal
Posts: 590
Thanked 324 Times in 144 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by underscore View Post
I think part of it comes from the unexpected nature of the impact and the restraints in the car only holding part of your body, but I could be wrong.
The speed of the other vehicle is only one part of the equation. Mass and direction of impact are some of the others. A Smart Car is not gonna do anything to your car, but a 4500 lb pickup truck? Much more damage.
__________________
"Happiness lies in the joy of achievement and the thrill of creative effort"
AWDTurboLuvr is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 10:53 AM   #38
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
quasi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Cloverdale
Posts: 10,231
Thanked 2,279 Times in 827 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_chin View Post
It's bullshit how perfect drivers have to pay for others' injury claims. It should just be the rate of individual insurance increase instead of the mass.

Guy A hits Guy B hard from the back. Guy B claim injuries (real or fraud), it should only come out of Guy A's insurance and Guy A's insurance premium will take a hit.

Why should the perfect guy that has been driving forever with no accidents have to pay more for others' fault?

The basic principal of insurance is spreading the risk among all the people that use it. Those who make claims pay a higher premium then those who don't. In order for it to only effect the person who's at fault they would have to cover the whole amount out of pocket. If everyone is paying out of pocket 100% what's the point in having insurance at all?

I feel your pain, I pay $4,600 a year to insure my 3 vehicles and haven't had a claim in almost 20 years.
__________________



“The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I don´t care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. That´s how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth.” - Rocky Balboa
quasi is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 10:59 AM   #39
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Hehe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: YVR/TPE
Posts: 2,954
Thanked 1,385 Times in 576 Posts
The whole insurance industry in North America needs a major overhaul.

The current system basically created this impression that if you ever got hit by someone, it's like you've won the lottery.

When I lived in South America, insurance there covered cars and/or properties, and not people. If you want to cover people, there's an extra coverage for that. And even so, the person claiming damage would have to prove how his/her life has been really affected by it. So, unless it's something obvious (broken leg/arm), one'd have to go great length to actually show such a damage (you get back pain? Go through CT/MRI scan to determine the actual cause, get an expert opinion on its cause and its effect on your life... etc).

The thing is, it makes hard for people to claim fake injuries and leave the money to those who truly need.
__________________
Nothing for now
Hehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 12:30 PM   #40
I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 524
Thanked 409 Times in 111 Posts
doesn't icbc run a surplus every year? As much as ppl make these claims, I think it's more about icbc diverting attention away from them hiking rates. They increase rates every year and every year have a different reason for why. Yet icbc has a surplus in revenue. My information on the surplus may be out of date, correct me if i'm wrong.
van_city23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 01:05 PM   #41
I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 2,700
Thanked 1,007 Times in 403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Holy crap some of you guys must be made of glass. 15km/h and you are hurting from back pain? Not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't believe you. A healthy person should be able to take a lot more abuse than that.

Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.

I'd love to see the statistic on at fault driver claims vs. not at fault driver claims. I'm willing to bet at speeds less than 20 or 30 that one side is going to be almost 100% of the claims.
It's not if you can sustain the impact or not. It's the fact that you've just been in an accident, where you shouldn't be. First, you'll want to make sure you get any pain checked out. Second, you're buying insurance for a reason, and should take every opportunity to get as much as you can back.
mr_chin is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
This post FAILED by:
Old 09-04-2015, 01:07 PM   #42
I signed up to a Zionist website and all the Illuminati gave me was this lousy usertitle
 
CharlesInCharge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,608
Thanked 527 Times in 292 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by van_city23 View Post
doesn't icbc run a surplus every year? As much as ppl make these claims, I think it's more about icbc diverting attention away from them hiking rates. They increase rates every year and every year have a different reason for why. Yet icbc has a surplus in revenue. My information on the surplus may be out of date, correct me if i'm wrong.
Its from the old divide and conquer play book. Make people think their problems are caused by other people then blind side them into even more debt slavery.
__________________
*My post highlights* *CIC confronts propaganda prodigies*
In reply to members 4444 & StylinRed on 911
http://www.revscene.net/forums/70427...ml#post8658229
jasonturbo & westopher in the election thread
http://www.revscene.net/forums/70467...ml#post8668948
http://www.revscene.net/forums/70467...ml#post8667115
Real news
www.tinyurl.com/kpg44bc
CharlesInCharge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 02:22 PM   #43
What hasn't Killed me, has made me more tolerant of RS!
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 181
Thanked 109 Times in 44 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by van_city23 View Post
doesn't icbc run a surplus every year? As much as ppl make these claims, I think it's more about icbc diverting attention away from them hiking rates. They increase rates every year and every year have a different reason for why. Yet icbc has a surplus in revenue. My information on the surplus may be out of date, correct me if i'm wrong.
What surplus? That's the Liberals' slush fund.

Vaughn Palmer: Ratepayers be damned, ICBC has become a valuable cash cow for unrepentant Liberals
JaPoola is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 03:45 PM   #44
RS.net, helping ugly ppl have sex since 2001
 
Jmac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Duncan, BC
Posts: 8,168
Thanked 3,841 Times in 1,436 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by AWDTurboLuvr View Post
The speed of the other vehicle is only one part of the equation. Mass and direction of impact are some of the others. A Smart Car is not gonna do anything to your car, but a 4500 lb pickup truck? Much more damage.
This ^

Force = Mass x Velocity Delta / Time

I don't know how long it takes for a car to come to a complete stop in a collision, but let's say 1 second for simplicity's sake. It's probably less time than that (so greater force).

Take a typical car weighing 1500 kg.

15 km/h = 4.17 m/s

1500 kg x 4.17 m/s / 1 second = 6.255 kN of Force

That's a shitload of force. Most of it is transferred to your vehicle and some of that is transferred to the occupants. How much depends on a number of factors.
Jmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 05:16 PM   #45
RS Lurker, I don't post!
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: vancouver
Posts: 4
Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by van_city23 View Post
doesn't icbc run a surplus every year? As much as ppl make these claims, I think it's more about icbc diverting attention away from them hiking rates. They increase rates every year and every year have a different reason for why. Yet icbc has a surplus in revenue. My information on the surplus may be out of date, correct me if i'm wrong.
ICBC did make money last year. Funny how it's always basic insurance that goes up. The optional ones never do. Ever since private companies were allowed to sell optional insurance, ICBC has been raising basic and lowering optional. By the way the Liberals took $138 million from ICBC last year. But its okay, no income tax increase right? just increases in ICBC, Hydro, and MSP.
rd01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 06:20 PM   #46
RS has made me the bitter person i am today!
 
meme405's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 4,625
Thanked 7,179 Times in 2,177 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_chin View Post
It's not if you can sustain the impact or not. It's the fact that you've just been in an accident, where you shouldn't be. First, you'll want to make sure you get any pain checked out. Second, you're buying insurance for a reason, and should take every opportunity to get as much as you can back.
This is exactly the wrong kind of attitude.

"Taking every opportunity to get as much back" is exactly the reason our insurance is so fucking high, because a bunch of whiners and complainers think that getting rear ended at 10km/h is a reason to not go to work for a month and claim their back is broken.

NEWS FLASH your back ain't broken you bitch ass loser, get the fuck back to work and make something of yourself instead of being a drain on society...
__________________

Barney Fucking Purple FX35
Brianna - 2008 FX35 - Build Thread
meme405 is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-04-2015, 07:16 PM   #47
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Tone Loc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 872
Thanked 1,418 Times in 403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_chin View Post
It's not if you can sustain the impact or not. It's the fact that you've just been in an accident, where you shouldn't be. First, you'll want to make sure you get any pain checked out. Second, you're buying insurance for a reason, and should take every opportunity to get as much as you can back.
I don't think there's anything wrong with going to see a doctor after ANY accident, just to make sure there are no underlying issues that could arise later on down the road. Going to a doctor after you get involved in an accident is not only better from a health perspective but is also good to have on your ICBC report just in case.

I strongly disagree with your last point though. Insurance isn't supposed to be seen as some kind of financial windfall, and people with that shitty attitude are the reason our premiums are so "high" in the first place. Because they take every collision as an opportunity to be dishonest and game the system for personal gain. Fraud affects all of us and I personally see no problem with paying more for insurance if it means more fraudulent claims are investigated and these scumbags are brought to justice.
Tone Loc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 08:16 PM   #48
Where's my RS Christmas Lobster?!
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: B.C
Posts: 816
Thanked 643 Times in 202 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Holy crap some of you guys must be made of glass. 15km/h and you are hurting from back pain? Not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't believe you. A healthy person should be able to take a lot more abuse than that.

Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.

I'd love to see the statistic on at fault driver claims vs. not at fault driver claims. I'm willing to bet at speeds less than 20 or 30 that one side is going to be almost 100% of the claims.
It's very common for re-occurrence of back injury if ppl have had it from the past before caused by some other injury. Also everyone is different which means everyone has different durability and bone density due to many factors such as age, sex, calcium intake and ect. In addition, back pain/injury is very broad. We could be talking about a strain in the back muscle, caused by a tear in the tendon/muscle fiber, a fractured vertebrae or sprain ligaments in the spine, or even more severe conditions such as shifting and compressing of vertebrates. Regardless, any back injury or head injury shouldn't be taken too lightly until further assessed by physicians.

And for sport activities such as snowboarding ppl do fall and theyre lucky to have not suffer any life threatening damage, but sometimes signs and symptoms do take days to show up and many unfortunate ppl have died from those listed activities.

Last edited by i-vtecyo; 09-04-2015 at 08:21 PM.
i-vtecyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-04-2015, 08:22 PM   #49
I Will not Admit my Addiction to RS
 
meowjinboo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Calgary, AB
Posts: 552
Thanked 269 Times in 121 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by meme405 View Post
Holy crap some of you guys must be made of glass. 15km/h and you are hurting from back pain? Not calling you a liar, but I certainly don't believe you. A healthy person should be able to take a lot more abuse than that.

Think about it, in any sport, mountain biking, snowboarding, etc the human body is constantly taking hits at velocities much higher than 15km/h.

Hell there are pedestrians that get hit at 15km/h and get up brush it off and walk away.

I'd love to see the statistic on at fault driver claims vs. not at fault driver claims. I'm willing to bet at speeds less than 20 or 30 that one side is going to be almost 100% of the claims.
revscene consists of 110 pound asian kids who don't do manual labour, what do you expect.

and some guy who keeps bragging about his life

and some guy who is a fucking lunatic.

Last edited by meowjinboo; 09-04-2015 at 10:09 PM.
meowjinboo is offline   Reply With Quote
This post thanked by:
Old 09-05-2015, 10:43 PM   #50
Diagonally parked in a parallel universe
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Burnaby
Posts: 1,488
Thanked 1,499 Times in 415 Posts
i do manual labour and my rear ender was from a f150 truck. low velocity as i recall it. bumper replacement was in 1.3k range and my physio said somewhere between my 3rd or 4th something on the upper spine (between neck to mid shoulder blade) was wacked.

2 years of treatment and there was improvement but its not fully back to what it was prior. no back injury prior either.

so i personally can say that low velocity rear enders are real, but i am also sure that alot of it are false claims for max payout.
__________________
(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)
SoNaRWaVe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:25 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Revscene.net cannot be held accountable for the actions of its members nor does the opinions of the members represent that of Revscene.net