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Old 11-09-2015, 03:54 AM   #1
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Discussion: Ultimate Christian sacrifice

"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"

discuss.

I want christian views on this. for real. what is your answer? I'm not trolling.

When I read this, it blew my mind. but part of me feels like maybe I don't understand christians...

maybe their love for god and obeying gods command is priority above all of mankind, including themselves and their own children. god comes first, above all else. and his command is thou shall not kill.

but what if it guarantees your baby's seat in heaven? wouldn't it be the ultimate sacrifice? you definitely don't want them burning in hell for all of eternity... lol. but you're willing to take that place, if they get to go to heaven, cuz selflessness right? any parent would want better for their kids!!!

or i guess not to have the baby at all lol.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:51 AM   #2
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i thought jesus died for all their sins, so it doesn't matter how much they sin now, they just have to say they're sorry (repent) and go to heaven?

but there are so many different sects of christianity, and they all believe different things...
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:13 AM   #3
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Lol. Ulic starting a thread to "discuss" religions.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:39 AM   #4
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Kind of what stylinred said, except you also have to believe in Jesus and that he died for us.

The scenario ulic proposes sounds like something only the extremists would even think of. Even then, most of them would laugh at the idea.
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:41 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"
What context and ass did you pull that statement from?
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:08 AM   #6
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Ulic if you ever become a parent, that would be an interesting scenario to say the least
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:32 AM   #7
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christian and other religion's logic is completely retarded. free will cannot logically coexist with an omnipotent/omniscient being so the whole "choosing to believe" point is completely moot
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:43 AM   #8
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Somewhat OT, but I'm reading an interesting book right now by Bill Bryson, a short history of nearly everything. Gives some amazing perspectives regarding the timelines that living/"thinking" beings have been around prior to any sort of formal religions etc.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:03 AM   #9
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A false dilemma. Catholics believe that all children are born with "original sin". Hence why babies are "baptized" to absolve them of that original sin.
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:04 AM   #10
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:12 AM   #11
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What the fucking fuck is this shit?
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Old 11-09-2015, 10:13 AM   #12
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Lol, religion.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:07 PM   #13
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Religious theologies, their fallacies, and other aspects of religion (not just Christian) are SO vast that they cannot be debated properly. Especially not on an internet forum filled with 14 year olds, and one that is atypically atheist as RS.

FWIW, I'm Christian - I was born and raised one, I went/go to church every Sunday, even when I wasn't old enough to even begin thinking about whether it makes sense or not. I'd like to think that I am old enough now to decide, but I still choose to go to Church, and stay fairly active in my faith.

The point of this long-ass post is not to promote debate on religion, but to try and explain why debate on this topic is unnecessary, and pretty much impossible.

Everything below is my personal opinion, gained from my experience as someone labeled "religious". I'm not a theologian, a pastor/priest, and my BELIEFS may go against someone else's; so read it with that in mind.
I don't really care for your opinion that my beliefs are based on fairy tales, that an omnipotent God removes all aspects of free will, etc. Those are beaten to death, a thousand times over. I still CHOOSE to believe, and I'll try and outline why. I wrote this out more as a rant - it's probably not very cohesive, nor well written - but it's something I wanted to write. Feel free to read for your insight on MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Spoilered for length:
Spoiler!


To answer, as a Christian, God, at least the one I like to think I believe in, has common sense. Being 'omnipotent' carries certain perks.

If some parents kill their child in the name of Christianity, I'm pretty sure God will shake his head - as for the outcome of the parties involved, there's absolutely no way to tell. Which is why there's no point on debating. For reason, click on spoiler button.

Anyway, long rant-ish post aside, your question is retarded.

"I want christian views on child killing". That's like saying "I want Canadian views on muslims being terrorists". Starting with a very provocative and extreme question, and pretending it's not a troll post - You're going to get such a large variety of answers, most of which will just lead to a huge flame war, instead of meaningful debate, and will almost surely elicit responses unfavourable to the point of the contention. Which I'm pretty sure is the very definition of trolling. If you're really interested in debating the topic of Christianity, call up a local church, ask to speak to a pastor about some questions you may have. Don't feign sincerity and ask questions clearly designed to draw ire and a shitstorm.

Last edited by inv4zn; 11-09-2015 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 11-09-2015, 12:22 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inv4zn View Post
Religious theologies, their fallacies, and other aspects of religion (not just Christian) are SO vast that they cannot be debated properly. Especially not on an internet forum filled with 14 year olds, and one that is atypically atheist as RS.

FWIW, I'm Christian - I was born and raised one, I went/go to church every Sunday, even when I wasn't old enough to even begin thinking about whether it makes sense or not. I'd like to think that I am old enough now to decide, but I still choose to go to Church, and stay fairly active in my faith.

The point of this long-ass post is not to promote debate on religion, but to try and explain why debate on this topic is unnecessary, and pretty much impossible.

Everything below is my personal opinion, gained from my experience as someone labeled "religious". I'm not a theologian, a pastor/priest, and my BELIEFS may go against someone else's; so read it with that in mind.
I don't really care for your opinion that my beliefs are based on fairy tales, that an omnipotent God removes all aspects of free will, etc. Those are beaten to death, a thousand times over. I still CHOOSE to believe, and I'll try and outline why. I wrote this out more as a rant - it's probably not very cohesive, nor well written - but it's something I wanted to write. Feel free to read for your insight on MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Spoilered for length:
Spoiler!


To answer, as a Christian, God, at least the one I like to think I believe in, has common sense. Being 'omnipotent' carries certain perks.

If some parents kill their child in the name of Christianity, I'm pretty sure God will shake his head - as for the outcome of the parties involved, there's absolutely no way to tell. Which is why there's no point on debating. For reason, click on spoiler button.

Anyway, long rant-ish post aside, your question is retarded.

"I want christian views on child killing". That's like saying "I want Canadian views on muslims being terrorists". Starting with a very provocative and extreme question, and pretending it's not a troll post - You're going to get such a large variety of answers, most of which will just lead to a huge flame war, instead of meaningful debate, and will almost surely elicit responses unfavourable to the point of the contention. Which I'm pretty sure is the very definition of trolling. If you're really interested in debating the topic of Christianity, call up a local church, ask to speak to a pastor about some questions you may have. Don't feign sincerity and ask questions clearly designed to draw ire and a shitstorm.
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Old 11-09-2015, 01:38 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inv4zn View Post
Religious theologies, their fallacies, and other aspects of religion (not just Christian) are SO vast that they cannot be debated properly. Especially not on an internet forum filled with 14 year olds, and one that is atypically atheist as RS.

FWIW, I'm Christian - I was born and raised one, I went/go to church every Sunday, even when I wasn't old enough to even begin thinking about whether it makes sense or not. I'd like to think that I am old enough now to decide, but I still choose to go to Church, and stay fairly active in my faith.

The point of this long-ass post is not to promote debate on religion, but to try and explain why debate on this topic is unnecessary, and pretty much impossible.

Everything below is my personal opinion, gained from my experience as someone labeled "religious". I'm not a theologian, a pastor/priest, and my BELIEFS may go against someone else's; so read it with that in mind.
I don't really care for your opinion that my beliefs are based on fairy tales, that an omnipotent God removes all aspects of free will, etc. Those are beaten to death, a thousand times over. I still CHOOSE to believe, and I'll try and outline why. I wrote this out more as a rant - it's probably not very cohesive, nor well written - but it's something I wanted to write. Feel free to read for your insight on MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Spoilered for length:
Spoiler!


To answer, as a Christian, God, at least the one I like to think I believe in, has common sense. Being 'omnipotent' carries certain perks.

If some parents kill their child in the name of Christianity, I'm pretty sure God will shake his head - as for the outcome of the parties involved, there's absolutely no way to tell. Which is why there's no point on debating. For reason, click on spoiler button.

Anyway, long rant-ish post aside, your question is retarded.

"I want christian views on child killing". That's like saying "I want Canadian views on muslims being terrorists". Starting with a very provocative and extreme question, and pretending it's not a troll post - You're going to get such a large variety of answers, most of which will just lead to a huge flame war, instead of meaningful debate, and will almost surely elicit responses unfavourable to the point of the contention. Which I'm pretty sure is the very definition of trolling. If you're really interested in debating the topic of Christianity, call up a local church, ask to speak to a pastor about some questions you may have. Don't feign sincerity and ask questions clearly designed to draw ire and a shitstorm.
Amen, brother. I'm also a Christian. -will not give a long winded reply to OP's post because I do not have the time for it. The Lord wants me to focus on my work, instead of "multi tasking" on other things like RS.

This is my two cents about this thread. You can look at as parents rights over a child vs. God the Creator's rights over humanity.

I believe in God as the ultimate creator of ALL life, not just babies. I'm referring to the entire universe. He has the final say on the creation and destruction of life.

When I follow this belief, how can I agree that a parent would exercise the right to kill their own offspring, their own flesh and blood?

What kind of messed up parent thinks they can determine from their own ways, own plans, that they can secure a baby's entrance into Heaven with God?? I believe it is the sovereign Lord who decides who goes into Heaven after a death in this world.

God is love. If a parent truly loved God, and loved their children, they would protect their child's life insteading of ending it on their own terms.
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:18 PM   #16
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yep, he can, and then snap his fingers again to change the burrito so he can eat it, thus maintaining omnipotence. can he create something that he can't destroy? now there's a question

i'm not christian but i always find it amusing, that people like to think they can outsmart/outreason/explain/deny the notion of such a being, if one exists...the ego of man is huuuge

but that doesn't mean we should believe, it just means ultimately, we couldn't have a clue one way or another
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:18 PM   #17
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Religion aside, seeing some of the crap that happens in this world, it makes me wonder if I was selfish to have kids...
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Old 11-09-2015, 02:27 PM   #18
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Spoiler!


What drugs do I have to be on for this to make sense?

And it isn't as if murder prevents you from going to heaven. The Bible is full of murder.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
"If you were a christian with a new baby, wouldn't the kindest, wisest thing be to kill them before they could ever sin, though it cost you your own soul?"

discuss.

I want christian views on this. for real. what is your answer? I'm not trolling.

When I read this, it blew my mind. but part of me feels like maybe I don't understand christians...

maybe their love for god and obeying gods command is priority above all of mankind, including themselves and their own children. god comes first, above all else. and his command is thou shall not kill.

but what if it guarantees your baby's seat in heaven? wouldn't it be the ultimate sacrifice? you definitely don't want them burning in hell for all of eternity... lol. but you're willing to take that place, if they get to go to heaven, cuz selflessness right? any parent would want better for their kids!!!

or i guess not to have the baby at all lol.
Christianity:

Adam was the first sinner, hence the fall of man, and everyone from Adam (basically all humans) are sinners.

So killing your baby does not change the fact he/she is also a sinner.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:36 PM   #20
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I'm NOT going to post a long ass answer.
When someone falls asleep because you bore them with too much knowledge, you've failed. Here's a short version.

"If you're a parent, and knowing you'll give birth to a child who will crash your car, lie to you, go past your curfew, move out at 15, would you rather NOT have the child"

As a parent, you LOVE your child so much you want to give them
-free will to make any choices in life
-you want to love them unconditionally
-you will continue to love them (even if they go to jail / or arrested etc)
than not having them at all.

I hope this make sense. It's the most simplest version example about God's love for his children.

Think of you adopting a dog, would you rather kill your dog knowing your dog will disobey you at times, run away, or pee on your shoes accidentally?

Regarding StylinRed's comment about go sin like crazy as long as you repent you can still go to heaven:

So YES, you know your parents will forgive you each time you lie, run away etc. As a GOOD child, you want to be honorable and that specifically is why you wouldn't want to do these things and want to obey the law, and get good marks etc.
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Old 11-09-2015, 05:52 PM   #21
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What the fuck is this troll thread? I guess I shouldn't be surprised reading Ulic's responses in various threads in the past. The guy is clearly mentally challenged and I'd put him on par with CiC. I would definitely pay to see those two morons doing a live debate though.
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Old 11-09-2015, 06:13 PM   #22
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in for the responses
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:04 PM   #23
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Oh Ulic, interesting subject yet a terrible opening statement. LOL!

I'm guessing your initial question is answered now no?
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Old 11-09-2015, 08:33 PM   #24
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Old 11-09-2015, 09:48 PM   #25
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A better question would be if God asked you to kill your child like he asked of Abraham... Not knowing if you'll be stopped at the last second, would you do it?

Is it still a goal of the modern Christian to achieve this level of blind faith?
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