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Old 09-07-2016, 06:01 PM   #1
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Learn me on leasing/buying German

Hi friends. I am hoping to tap into the collective RS wisdom and get some advice on buying or leasing a new German car...

All my previous vehicle purchases have been used, so I've got zero experience when it comes to buying new, especially a higher-end German car (most likely a 2016 M4).

1.) What kind of negotiating room do I have? I've heard German dealers are notorious for taking a 'take it or leave it' attitude... is that true? Can I negotiate finance/lease rates, optional equipment, etc? Or is the trade-in value of my current car the only area where I can really negotiate to get a better deal than the sticker price / dealer's initial offer?

2.) Will different dealers compete for my business? I'm in Victoria where there's only one BMW dealership, but I know that any M4 I might purchase would almost certainly come from another dealer in Western Canada.... can I call up Brian Jessel BMW, for example, and try to get them to beat my local Victoria BMW dealer's offer?

3.) Any other advice, tips, or wisdom to share about leasing or purchasing a new car?

Thanks in advance dudes.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:08 PM   #2
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call up a certain rs member that works at a bmw dealership

tell him you know smoothie

he'll give you cost + 50%
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:15 PM   #3
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With one dealership in the area, your bargaining power would surely be diminished as they know they'll be an extra cost to you if you were to try to purchase from any other dealer in the lower mainland.

I was never a sales, but worked in a dealership and from what I heard new car sales is not where the sales margins are. Used cars are the bread and butter and drive the huge margins. With that said, there is usually some wiggle room, even in higher end and more limited production cars like the M4.

Id definitely call up a few dealerships in the lower mainland to see if they'll be willing to work with you to set up a deal. Where I worked before, we used to pick up occasionally customers from the airport/ferry terminal and drive them to the dealership on their delivery date.
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:29 PM   #4
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lol "negotiate rates"
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:33 PM   #5
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With one dealership in the area, your bargaining power would surely be diminished as they know they'll be an extra cost to you if you were to try to purchase from any other dealer in the lower mainland.

I was never a sales, but worked in a dealership and from what I heard new car sales is not where the sales margins are. Used cars are the bread and butter and drive the huge margins. With that said, there is usually some wiggle room, even in higher end and more limited production cars like the M4.

Id definitely call up a few dealerships in the lower mainland to see if they'll be willing to work with you to set up a deal. Where I worked before, we used to pick up occasionally customers from the airport/ferry terminal and drive them to the dealership on their delivery date.
Cool, thanks for the info. I'll definitely talk to lower mainland dealers then... even if only to provide a bit of leverage (perhaps my local dealer will match their offer?). Cheers
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:44 PM   #6
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This seems like a talk to tofu and don't tell him you know smoothie kind of thread
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Old 09-07-2016, 06:47 PM   #7
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This seems like a talk to tofu and don't tell him you know smoothie kind of thread
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Old 09-07-2016, 07:16 PM   #8
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I've leased (well wife as she gets it as part of job benefit) quite a few vehicle so I'd chime in.

1. Don't be afraid to travel. Do your homework first and see what's the ballpark you are comfortable with. Then start calling... find a competitive sales and go from there. I remember when wife got a car once, we went all the way to Nanaimo. The sales was so eager to get the deal done, he not only gave us a great deal, but also stacked some further discount to cover the ferries (2-ways for one car, and 1way for the new car) and the buffet on board.

2. Always negotiate on the price. Don't mention your financing preferences until you get to the final price. Any financing incentive offered by the manufacturer is still based on the final price.

3. Go near the end of the month near end of the year assuming you don't care for next year's model. Salesmen usually have more pressure during this time (both quota and available stock). And if you can find one from the existing stock, you are able to get a much better deal. I.E: when I got my E93 328 a few years back in an October iirc, I got 7500 off plus 1.9% lease rate. My friend who basically got the same car earlier that year in March only got 1500 off and 4.9% rate. (or something like that) And it was the second year of E93, so nothing really changed between current year vs. next year... so it was a no brainer.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:18 PM   #9
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Talk to BMW in Victoria and get them to throw in a day or two at Island motorsport circuit since GAIN the company that owns the dealership owns it.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe View Post
I've leased (well wife as she gets it as part of job benefit) quite a few vehicle so I'd chime in.

1. Don't be afraid to travel. Do your homework first and see what's the ballpark you are comfortable with. Then start calling... find a competitive sales and go from there. I remember when wife got a car once, we went all the way to Nanaimo. The sales was so eager to get the deal done, he not only gave us a great deal, but also stacked some further discount to cover the ferries (2-ways for one car, and 1way for the new car) and the buffet on board.

2. Always negotiate on the price. Don't mention your financing preferences until you get to the final price. Any financing incentive offered by the manufacturer is still based on the final price.

3. Go near the end of the month near end of the year assuming you don't care for next year's model. Salesmen usually have more pressure during this time (both quota and available stock). And if you can find one from the existing stock, you are able to get a much better deal. I.E: when I got my E93 328 a few years back in an October iirc, I got 7500 off plus 1.9% lease rate. My friend who basically got the same car earlier that year in March only got 1500 off and 4.9% rate. (or something like that) And it was the second year of E93, so nothing really changed between current year vs. next year... so it was a no brainer.
Thanks! Appreciate the insights.

Apparently the 2017 M cars will be available this month so maybe I can use the 'last year's model' thing as a negotiating chip. Sadly, there aren't too many M4's in stock at local dealers, so I'm not holding my breath... but it's worth a shot.
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Old 09-07-2016, 08:23 PM   #11
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Talk to BMW in Victoria and get them to throw in a day or two at Island motorsport circuit since GAIN the company that owns the dealership owns it.
I thought membership was going to be included as a perk for customers of their dealerships? But yeah, will do, thanks for the heads up.... would be sweet to get some track time in the new ride (perhaps after the break-in period tho, ha).
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:31 PM   #12
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I think M4/4-series facelift is coming soon so if you are going to buy new might as well wait
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Old 09-07-2016, 09:41 PM   #13
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I think M4/4-series facelift is coming soon so if you are going to buy new might as well wait
Sales guy at BMW told me the 2017 model was largely unchanged. The interweb tells me these are the updates for 2017:

-------

2017 BMW M4 Coupe and M4 Convertible.

Standard Equipment now includes:
Adaptive M Suspension now standard.
iDrive 5.0.

Lines and Package changes:
Executive Package now includes Wireless Charging and Wi-Fi Hotspot with Enhanced USB and Bluetooth.

Optional Equipment now includes:
Individual Extended Merino Leather including Leather Dashboard is now available.
Individual Metallic Paint is now offered.

------

I'm ordering the competition pack anyway (includes M suspension on the 2016 M4, which will be standard for 2017) and not opting for the Executive Package, so the only major change is the updated iDrive which is not a big concern for me.

Thanks tho... if I were looking at the 2017 vs 2018 it'd probably be better to wait for the following year's model as you suggested, but this year it's not much difference.
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Old 09-07-2016, 10:14 PM   #14
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i dont have a M4 but i do drive a BMW so these somewhat apply to u as well

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2017 BMW M4 Coupe and M4 Convertible.

Standard Equipment now includes:
Adaptive M Suspension now standard.
This really depends on weather u'll be putting suspension onto the car down the road. If u are planning on getting coilovers, then dont bother with the adaptive M suspension as u'll need extra electronics to bypass the sensors when u put coilovers on. If u dont plan on putting suspension mods on the car then yes do go for the adaptive M suspension. It is actually noticeable going through different modes, its not like in the early days where pressing sport mode 99% of the people dont feel a difference.

iDrive 5.0.
U'll want this as well, i've seen the youtube vids of the new idrive 5.0 from the 7 series and it just looks a lot more refined and update. The current version is not bad to say, but its one of those things where u'll wish u've gotten down the road

Lines and Package changes:
Executive Package now includes Wireless Charging and Wi-Fi Hotspot with Enhanced USB and Bluetooth.
Wireless charging is nice to have, but not all phones support it yet. If u only use iphones, i dont foresee apple support it anytime soon. Wi-Fi hotspot is pretty much useless, u need to pay a subscription fee to basically have mobile data for ur car, pointless feature.
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:25 AM   #15
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I thought membership was going to be included as a perk for customers of their dealerships? But yeah, will do, thanks for the heads up.... would be sweet to get some track time in the new ride (perhaps after the break-in period tho, ha).
Membership cost $48000 for 25 years and 4800 a year and they are capping it of at something like 200 members.

You should come out to the motor gathering on the 18th.
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Old 09-09-2016, 11:12 AM   #16
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Another basic thing to keep in mind is negotiating will always come down to the specific vehicle you want and the market demand vs supply. If inventory is low or the dealership is doing a factory order for you, then your negotiating power is diminished. If you're looking to purchase a unit that's sitting on a lot that a dealer needs to move, you will have the upper hand.

Rule of thumb is dealers don't like to have cars sitting on their lot. The longer they sit, the more it costs the dealer for inventory. That applies to all makes/models, not just German.
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Old 09-09-2016, 04:56 PM   #17
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You basically don't really have much room for negotiations for leasing. They have a set rate for the lease rate, you just have to watch for promo's. Generally speaking it's easier to get a better rate on a demo or year end model.

For special edition vehicles (ie. M4) you won't have much space for negotiations.

I know for Porsche and Benz you basically zero wiggle room.

Buying or financing generally have more room to negotiate. The borrowing rate again is predetermined by the manufacturer's lending bank.
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Old 09-10-2016, 01:43 AM   #18
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Thanks for all the advice, folks.

I've been talking with the sales guys at my local BMW dealer, and found a 2016 M4 that checks off all my "must-haves". I've done some initial negotiating (an initial offer from the dealership basically), and they've knocked $3k off the MSRP (3%). Sales dude says this is our "absolute best price" (sure, sure).

The car is in Calgary. From the paperwork I have here, it looks like they've had it sitting there for 9 months, probably in storage for the last while. Normally I'd assume that means they're at least somewhat motivated to get it out the door and make room for the 2017's (which will start arriving in Dec), but in this case I'm not really sure that helps me much since Victoria BMW doesn't give a shit about Calgary's inventory....?

Anyway, it can be shipped to any dealer in Canada in 1-2 weeks on demand with no extra charge (I guess it still belongs to BMW Canada technically?). Sucks buying sight-unseen, but the colours and optional equipment are what I'm looking for, and I won't have to wait 3-5 months for a 2017 order. (I'm leasing so I am not too concerned about buying a year-old car, and there's no diff in residuals or interest rates for 2017's.)

SOO.... Should I push hard for a further significant discount (ie. another $3k off the MSRP, for a total $6k savings)? I'll certainly play the "another dealer offered me it for X price" card, but I'm not sure really how much more leverage I have. My current thinking is that I should be aiming for another $2k discount ($5k total) but I welcome any and all opinions. TIA.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:21 AM   #19
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You have nothing to lose asking for a better deal. The worst they can day is no.
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Old 09-10-2016, 05:35 AM   #20
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Since the car is not in there inventory there not highly motivated to discount it any further.
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:49 AM   #21
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True. But dealer transfers virtually cost them nothing and they have everything to gain. Their first offer is never their real
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Old 09-17-2016, 06:53 PM   #22
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Update: I was able to talk them down another $700. Not much in the grand scheme of things, but enough to make me feel like I didn't get ripped off.

Anyway, deposit is paid, paperwork is done, M4 is on its way.

Thanks to all for the help / advice.

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Old 09-17-2016, 09:59 PM   #23
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What specs you end up settling for? Congrats on a wicked car
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:41 PM   #24
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Update: I was able to talk them down another $700. Not much in the grand scheme of things, but enough to make me feel like I didn't get ripped off.

Anyway, deposit is paid, paperwork is done, M4 is on its way.

Thanks to all for the help / advice.

which bmw store did you go to ?
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Old 09-18-2016, 03:06 AM   #25
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What specs you end up settling for? Congrats on a wicked car
Thanks! Black on tan leather and CF trim with the silver 19" wheels. DCT auto, Premium package (I need HUD, haha), Connectivity package, M Adaptive suspension.

I chose not to go with the Competition Package on purpose (the 20" wheels are ugly, the ride quality will suffer, and the stock 425bhp is plenty).

I went with a sunroof -- apparently that makes me a pariah among M4 fanboys, more than 90% of buyers go for the CF roof (which is insane).

Anyway, I'm pumped about the purchase, no buyers remorse here. Thx again to those who chimed in above with advice/comments.





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which bmw store did you go to ?
I'm in Victoria so I went with the only choice in town - BMW Victoria. Overall, the sales guys there were pretty good. I knew I was being 'worked' a bit at times (it's a car dealership, after all) but they were friendly, knowledgeable, and have kept my informed about the delivery date, etc.
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