Dog Fight

[Mkhun]

Originally Posted by Dragon-88

By chance do you live in M3? I saw a sheltie in my building today with a cone, and your discription says Coquitlam. Just curious.

Yes, I do !

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by Mkhun

But it's tough to track down and I cannot get a hold onto the strata.

Makes me wonder if the aggressive dog is owned by one of the strata members.....



Thanks for the update too.

[fliptuner]

My buddy's in that building as well. He can keep an eye out too.

[Ch28]

If your strata council is anything like mine then you'll definitely need to do a lot of pushing. Make sure that every correspondence you make to them is via email or recorded somehow to help protect yourself. I'm happy the the CCTV footage shows them and that concierge seems to be really helpful in this situation.

[zilley]

I meant the other parties dog, but your sheltie is beautiful.

I almost bought one out of impulse a few months ago.. LOL.

[Mkhun]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

Makes me wonder if the aggressive dog is owned by one of the strata members.....

Thanks for the update too.

No problem!
I sincerely hope not.
It's just the strata being lazy or too busy I hope.

Originally Posted by fliptuner

My buddy's in that building as well. He can keep an eye out too.

Thank you!
Maybe he already saw the ad I posted up on the bulletin

Originally Posted by Ch28

If your strata council is anything like mine then you'll definitely need to do a lot of pushing. Make sure that every correspondence you make to them is via email or recorded somehow to help protect yourself. I'm happy the the CCTV footage shows them and that concierge seems to be really helpful in this situation.

Thank you.
I am pushing and so as the Animal Control Officer(ACO).
I am mainly using emails as a communication method, so everything is all in records.
ACO said he can leave my case open for next 6 months or so, so I got enough time.
I just hope I do not need to be in the hunt for them for another 6 months.

Originally Posted by zilley

I meant the other parties dog, but your sheltie is beautiful.
I almost bought one out of impulse a few months ago.. LOL.

Thank you
It was a Gold/Brown Labrador.
Shelties are very bright and clever, just needs lot and lots of exercise.

He already adjusted himself with being cone on his head.
I've changed his dish with something wider and flatter so he can feed himself easier.
He's using the end of the cone as "excavator" and not leaving a single piece of food on his dish



Just finished talking to the ACO.

He gave me his personal/work phone# and email address so that I can contact him at any time.

He advised me to push Strata for CCTV footage, otherwise, he will push.

No words from Strata yet.

I created another ad with rewards so that I can spread them out on nearby SB, Public library, out building bulletin boards etc.

Going to be a busy weekend.

I don't think RCMP won't deal with these type of cases, but i may as well just call them and as for an advise.

I also posted a discussion on one of the FB group(lower mainland pet owners)and apparently. there're tons of cases like this.

VERY disappointing to see irresponsible people and cases like this just left behind, bot properly followed up and resolved.

[PJ]

Good on you for doing all you can and making all the right moves to follow up.

I take care of dogs for a living, and it's always a shame when dog owners have such a lack of responsibility-- especially when their dog carries that type of aggression. Very rarely do dogs snap like that out of no where, causing that much damage. On the rare occasion it does happen, any responsible owner would own up to it and take the necessary steps to make amends and prevent it from happening again. This leads me to believe that the owners knew about their dog's behaviour and are simply careless.

Like someone said, next time it could happen to a child or a small dog and the injuries could be way worse or even fatal.

Hope your dog has a speedy recovery. Let me know if you have any questions.

[Mkhun]

Originally Posted by PJ

Good on you for doing all you can and making all the right moves to follow up.

I take care of dogs for a living, and it's always a shame when dog owners have such a lack of responsibility-- especially when their dog carries that type of aggression. Very rarely do dogs snap like that out of no where, causing that much damage. On the rare occasion it does happen, any responsible owner would own up to it and take the necessary steps to make amends and prevent it from happening again. This leads me to believe that the owners knew about their dog's behaviour and are simply careless.

Like someone said, next time it could happen to a child or a small dog and the injuries could be way worse or even fatal.

Hope your dog has a speedy recovery. Let me know if you have any questions.

Thank you.
I really think, and feel a lot in various ways while going thru this whole process.
Careless is okay as long as it's not harm to the public's safety/to other pets, children.

Issue is, one being's careless behaviour can cause tremendous damage to someone just like a finger snap.

[Mkhun]

*UPDATE*

Encountered with the owners and the dog.
Took 3 days to come across with them/finding them.

I just got off work and got a photo msg from home.
My the other half and the roommate spotted a couple with a dog whom matches my description
and they ran down, got a hold onto them.

[fliptuner]

I wonder how that conversation went.

[Ch28]

I can't wait for the incoming bullshit excuses those careless owners are going to use.

[Mkhun]

Originally Posted by fliptuner

I wonder how that conversation went.

It went okay..just okay..

Originally Posted by Ch28

I can't wait for the incoming bullshit excuses those careless owners are going to use.

I wasn't expecting anything better or less.



*Another update, Long post*

As soon as I got off from work yesterday,
gf and the roommate inbox me with couple pictures of a couple&dog walking outside at time, easily seen on our patio(5th floor, corner garden unit)

It was them.

The dog was not on the leash properly and dog was freely walking/jumping around&peeing EVERYWHERE.

I asked to go down and try to talk to them, and give me a call as soon as meeting them.
All I needed was one of the owner's name, dog's name, and a number.

The thing is, when my gf and roommate ran down and got a hang onto them, it was close enough to the lobby of my apartment building.
So, CCTV caught everything while they were talking.
(Hence, I've called RCMP and reported the owners&dog's inappropriate behaviour and aggressiveness. Will be explained later)

Even before they approached to the owners and the dog, the dog already turned around and start to growl, and start jumping.

As soon as the owners realized the dog jumping(big dog), he&she pulled the loose leash hard enough that the dog ended up fall down, and rolled on the ground.

Even after, one of the owners(female owner) tried to hang onto the leash with two hands, leaning back towards to strain him as hard as possible.

My gf asked, how they were and what kind of dog they own.

They say "Why do you want to know? it's not our fault".

Okay..

So, my gf and roommate asked, if they are aware of a Sheltie around this area and they responded "it's not our dog's fault, your dog attacked my dog first, and our dog is very well trained."
And there goes swearing coming out the the female owner very angry voice.
Once she started to swear, It went for a while.
Calling my gf and roommate total f'ng Bi**** was one of the easiest thing to hear over the phone, as she won't just stop swearing and threatening with big gestures. The guy ended up calming her down after talking to me over the phone tho.
-> This is why I thought she must be F'd up in the head and needed to report her to police.
The behaviour towards her dog and to my gf&roommate was hard to just stand.

Their verbal response, immediate reaction, and the dog's behaviour already showed they were fully aware of this situation and their dog is obviously not very well trained.

Funny thing is, they have never seen my gf or my roommate with my dog.
It was me.

I ended up talking to the guy, one of the owners over the phone for brief, simple and short while ladies were having heaty arguments(could hear everything over the phone).

His first response was hello, it's not my fault.

I really had to hold down the grudge and calmly spoke with him and he seem to be cooperating.

- I introduced myself, and he said he knows me.
- I asked if his dog is okay and he said his dog is fine.
- I told him my dog got hurt and went thru surgery. He said it's not their/their dog's fault.(NEVERNEVER asked me if my dog is okay)
- He added my dog attacked their first and initiated the fight.
- I told him, listen, I have CCTV records. No lies to me. Regardless, my dog got hurt. Man up and take the responsibility.
- I told him I've reported this incident to ACS(Animal Control Service)
- I told him both city hall, ACS, and RCMP already has all of my information and all the information I know regarding this incident
- I told him dogs tend to get excited and can have fun, but their dog must be on the proper leash with reasonable amount of distance with the owners themselves, and must be in full control of them.
- I told him CCTV records which shows the none of the above was witnessed.
- I told him by the fact that once the dog got bitten, then you realized shits gone wrong and tried to pull their dogs away, but couldn't just control their dog. They didn't even notice what their dog was doing right before my dog got bitten because they were busy talking to each other, not paying attention to their dog.
- I asked him to give me his name, dog's name, and phone# at least so that I can pass on that info to ACS and RCMP.

Then he was listening to me whole time and gave me his number, name, and dong's name.

He wanted to meet me but I didn't want to, and I have no reason to do so.

I made sure while we were on the phone, I messaged him and he replied to me right back.

Things went too smooth and as I was expecting, things got bit twisted again.

I came back home, sent him another message asking his address and email address to add on my file and never got a reply back till now.



I kinda am regretting now that I should've asked for a copy of his identification (DL or BCID) or asked for the residential address, or email address even.

He probably wouldn't give it out anyways, but still..*sigh*

I sent Animal Control office a long email with lots, and lots of attachments.

Email body is pretty much the statement for:

- What exactly happened on that first incident
- What exactly happened when we re-encountered with them yesterday again - Whatever I got from the owners, basic information

Attachments are:

- Pictures of surrounding areas
- my dog's damage
- vet records
- email that I sent to strata requesting CCTV footage(cc's strata manager too)
- message I sent to him when I came home
- their dog's picture.



Anyhow, Animal Control Officer who's following up with my case is not on duty today.
I've sent him and email. left voice memo, so I guess it's a waiting game from now on.

I think I've done enough to appeal my case, and I'm going to let the professionals handle it, and decide.

I will still keep bugging them and follow up with the case tho.

I don't want them to get away with this.

If there're further updates, I will make sure update on this thread too.

Hopefully there could be something done right this time so that this would probably be the greatest gift to my dog's upcoming birthday(which is April 2nd!)

Thanks to all who commented, gave me advice, and cared with your hearts and thanks to RS!

-M

[threezero]

I Don't believe that owners are require to muzzle dog aggressive dogs. Only human aggressive dogs are require to be muzzled by law and to acquire a special dangerous dog license. That was the case when I had to get the dangerous license for my dog.

[originalhypa]

People who don't take responsibility for their actions make me sick. Especially after being confronted with the video evidence, etc.

unbelievable.

[Fafine]

Props to OP for being composed and calm through this situation.

i dont believe in dangerous or bad dogs
Only bad owners.

[threezero]

Originally Posted by Fafine

Props to OP for being composed and calm through this situation.

i dont believe in dangerous or bad dogs
Only bad owners.

some dogs are harder to handle than other. I don't believe that everybody should own any kind of dogs. More like this is the case of mismatch owner with dogs. The same dog could still be dog aggressive with a different owner but everything can be manage if one is responsible

[quasi]

Originally Posted by threezero

some dogs are harder to handle than other. I don't believe that everybody should own any kind of dogs. More like this is the case of mismatch owner with dogs. The same dog could still be dog aggressive with a different owner but everything can be manage if one is responsible

I agree 100%. After my bully past I posted in this forum about the new dog we adopted from Kamloops SPCA. He was an American Bulldog Cross, beautiful dog super friendly with a great temperament to other people but once I got out with him a bit I realized he was a bit of a handful. He would go straight Cujo around other dogs, he was a strong dog probably 110 pounds pretty much solid muscle it took all of me to hold him back with a harness and a collar.

I soon realize this dog could be a huge liability because of the high density area we lived and us having so many different kids at our place all the time. I have a 10 year old, he's 10 and he makes mistakes. All it would have took it him coming in the front door when a dog is walking by and the new dog pushing past him and shredding whatever dog he got a hold of. My wife didn't talk to me for a week but I took the next day off work, put the dog in the vehicle and drove him back to Kamloops. I really liked the dog but realized for our needs he wasn't the right fit.

We now have a border collie cross who we've nicknamed asshole because he's an asshole, but he's harmless.

For the record I'm not against bully breeds, I'd get another one in a heartbeat but it has to be the right situation and fit. I miss my Bully so much, I tell my wife everyday that I like this asshole dog we got but he will never replace my Staffie NEVER!!!!

[threezero]

Thank you for that. I feel like the trendy saying of "no dangerous dogs only bad owner" is so overrated. Some dogs ARE hard to handle. Some are even meant to be hard to handle. Before you go blaming the owner for being a bad owner, the same owner would have been a model canine parent had he selected something more handlable for their situation and ability.

Is he a bad owner or just way over his head?

This is the same analogy as teenage kids with high power sports cars

[Fafine]

Originally Posted by threezero

Thank you for that. I feel like the trendy saying of "no dangerous dogs only bad owner" is so overrated. Some dogs ARE hard to handle. Some are even meant to be hard to handle. Before you go blaming the owner for being a bad owner, the same owner would have been a model canine parent had he selected something more handlable for their situation and ability.

Is he a bad owner or just way over his head?

This is the same analogy as teenage kids with high power sports cars

Then they should be a good owner, and keep an eye on their dog if they know he's trouble. Or be responsible like quasi.

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by quasi

I agree 100%. After my bully past I posted in this forum about the new dog we adopted from Kamloops SPCA. He was an American Bulldog Cross, beautiful dog super friendly with a great temperament to other people but once I got out with him a bit I realized he was a bit of a handful. He would go straight Cujo around other dogs, he was a strong dog probably 110 pounds pretty much solid muscle it took all of me to hold him back with a harness and a collar.

I soon realize this dog could be a huge liability because of the high density area we lived and us having so many different kids at our place all the time. I have a 10 year old, he's 10 and he makes mistakes. All it would have took it him coming in the front door when a dog is walking by and the new dog pushing past him and shredding whatever dog he got a hold of. My wife didn't talk to me for a week but I took the next day off work, put the dog in the vehicle and drove him back to Kamloops. I really liked the dog but realized for our needs he wasn't the right fit.

We now have a border collie cross who we've nicknamed asshole because he's an asshole, but he's harmless.

For the record I'm not against bully breeds, I'd get another one in a heartbeat but it has to be the right situation and fit. I miss my Bully so much, I tell my wife everyday that I like this asshole dog we got but he will never replace my Staffie NEVER!!!!

I applaud you for doing the right thing. I honestly can't say that I'd be able to do that especially if I already developed a bond with the dog. Must've been pretty hard on you and the dog.

[Mkhun]

Originally Posted by threezero

I Don't believe that owners are require to muzzle dog aggressive dogs. Only human aggressive dogs are require to be muzzled by law and to acquire a special dangerous dog license. That was the case when I had to get the dangerous license for my dog.

It's not "required" as long as owners can "handle them".
As long as you don't let your dog to go out for walk, dog park and randomly biting around the other dogs, I don't care.
You can easily get one of the soft muzzled from Pet Smart, it's all up to your choice and ability how much you can handle.

CCTV clearly showed that when the "accident" happened, owners were not aware of wtf was going on, they were busy smoking and talking to eachother.
Once the dog bit mine, then they tried to pull away but couldn't just control their dog.

Originally Posted by originalhypa

People who don't take responsibility for their actions make me sick. Especially after being confronted with the video evidence, etc.
unbelievable.

They are keep denying, refusing, and pointing finger at me&my dog even after the footage proof.
Also their dog seems to be just fine when my dog had to go through surgery.
I had a chance to ask them if their dog is okay and all I got from them was "it's your dog who attacked my dog and you need to take control over your shitty dog".
No apologies, no courtesy to ask if my dog is okay, no respect at all.
Oh well, I just left to ACS officer and RCMP to deal with them.

Originally Posted by Fafine

Props to OP for being composed and calm through this situation.
i dont believe in dangerous or bad dogs
Only bad owners.

I agree. Thank you.

Originally Posted by threezero

some dogs are harder to handle than other. I don't believe that everybody should own any kind of dogs. More like this is the case of mismatch owner with dogs. The same dog could still be dog aggressive with a different owner but everything can be manage if one is responsible

Originally Posted by threezero

Thank you for that. I feel like the trendy saying of "no dangerous dogs only bad owner" is so overrated. Some dogs ARE hard to handle. Some are even meant to be hard to handle. Before you go blaming the owner for being a bad owner, the same owner would have been a model canine parent had he selected something more handlable for their situation and ability.
Is he a bad owner or just way over his head?
This is the same analogy as teenage kids with high power sports cars

I agree. Thank you.
I understand what you mean and I mean no blame or harm to any dogs or owners out there, but please,
at least pay attention to your dog while you're out and spend some time to get to know your dog and "connect" if you know what I mean.

Originally Posted by quasi

I agree 100%. After my bully past I posted in this forum about the new dog we adopted from Kamloops SPCA. He was an American Bulldog Cross, beautiful dog super friendly with a great temperament to other people but once I got out with him a bit I realized he was a bit of a handful. He would go straight Cujo around other dogs, he was a strong dog probably 110 pounds pretty much solid muscle it took all of me to hold him back with a harness and a collar.

I soon realize this dog could be a huge liability because of the high density area we lived and us having so many different kids at our place all the time. I have a 10 year old, he's 10 and he makes mistakes. All it would have took it him coming in the front door when a dog is walking by and the new dog pushing past him and shredding whatever dog he got a hold of. My wife didn't talk to me for a week but I took the next day off work, put the dog in the vehicle and drove him back to Kamloops. I really liked the dog but realized for our needs he wasn't the right fit.

We now have a border collie cross who we've nicknamed asshole because he's an asshole, but he's harmless.

For the record I'm not against bully breeds, I'd get another one in a heartbeat but it has to be the right situation and fit. I miss my Bully so much, I tell my wife everyday that I like this asshole dog we got but he will never replace my Staffie NEVER!!!!

Originally Posted by Ch28

I applaud you for doing the right thing. I honestly can't say that I'd be able to do that especially if I already developed a bond with the dog. Must've been pretty hard on you and the dog.

I'm so sorry to hear that..
It must've been so tough for you especially when you are already attached to your dog and developed so much bond with him/her as Ch28 already mentioned..
I really applaud you for doing so..

Originally Posted by Fafine

Then they should be a good owner, and keep an eye on their dog if they know he's trouble. Or be responsible like quasi.

Thank you.
I agree. Once you've made a mistake, (at least it seemed like they do realize shit went bad),
be mature enough to suck it up, and take the consequences.
Simple apology and follow up would've made everything a lot smoother and easier.



*UPDATE*

ACS and RCMP called me yesterday, It was my pup's Bday.

ACS officer said he received all of my emails, attachments, pretty much everything I've prepped and passed on.
He even told me I've done enough and leave it up to him and his supervisor.

He briefly already spoke to the owners and they're not cooperating well.
To make things worse, their dog is not registered any cities in lower mainland.
They demand proofs of CCTV AGAIN, and pictures, invoices that I claim due to my pup's damage.

Him and his boss will follow up this matter and they're working on;

- Make them to register their dog
- Fine them due to this incident
- Fixed leash less than 1.5 meters and muzzle restrictions
- Register as vicious/dangerous dog which prevents the dog going to any public area or dog parks
- Slap on monitor system for next 6 months or so (If they don't follow the restrictions, they're looking at pretty big fat fine bills each time witnessed)

However, ACS officer cannot force them to cover up my vet bills.
That's something that need to be dealt via small claims court which I think is time-wasting and unnecessary.

RCMP also called and told me to cooperate with ACS officer by the city, however,
If i come across with them and feel dangerous/threatened, I can call in immediately as I've got the direct number to the specific officer.
RCMP already has the owners and the dog's profile.

It will take minimum 5~max. 10 days till I get another call(probably last) from ACS officer pretty much wrapping up this case,
meantime, they might be voluntarily offer to cover up my vet bills and apologize or not.

At this point, I just want my dog recover well asap and happy to know that
ACS officer and RCMP are all helping me to sort things out at their best interest.

I built stronger relationship to other pet owners in my building and had a blast yesterday taking him to local dog park and let him be free for a while.

I sincerely hope all the other pet owners always stay alert and be healthy&safe with their pets for long.

Yes, it's exactly how the accidents happen.

You never know what kind of shit is coming to you even if you're not at fault.



picture hosting

[320icar]

Good thing that the city and rcmp have been on top of it and helping to their fullest extent. Remember about worrying for the future and how your dog might act. YOU are the pack leader and they will follow YOUR energy. Always be calm and dominant!

/cesar

[Ch28]

You know the thing that bugs me the most about all of this? How two full grown adults cannot take responsibility when all parties involved know that it was their fault. Shit like that just absolutely infuriates me, especially when there is video proof of it taking place.

[westopher]

They sound like total scumbag owners, which is just so typical of dogs that end up in these situations. People should have to take a course and be licensed to own a dog.
You were very collected in this situation and I applaud you for that.
My dog was attacked by an off leash dog last night, but was fairly unscathed. My wife had to pick him up off the ground so he didn't bite back, because it would have made for a very bad outcome. Looking back it was probably pretty funny seeing someone holding a 65lb pitbull while some 25lb fluffy dog was going apeshit at him. Shitty part was it was my next door neighbour. She was very apologetic though, and no one was hurt. Just aggravated.