You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
they go ahead and do the exact thing everyone has said is the problem, cap "owe my neck" payouts, like every other province in canada does. and this will result in a BILLION DOLLARS in savings per year.
Does this imply that our insurance rates will drop and become near par to other provinces? I imagine the two go hand in hand no? We want a system like other provinces so therefore we should be paying insurance premiums like other provinces?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar
the liberals pulled $1billion total from ICBC over 5 years and they didn't pull money out in 2017. ICBC being $1.3 billion in deficit in ONE year, does not mean they are in deficit because of the liberals pulling money out over several years. its fucking math. the $1.3billion isn't an accrued debt, it is an operating deficit. they're paying out $1.3billion more in expenses in 2017 than they are bringing in.
No...they're PROJECTING $1.3 Billion dollar expenditure (including potential and outstanding liability) by the END of this fiscal year (2018). This includes all injury claims that are currently open and outstanding right now AND an estimation of injury claims that may arise in the next ~ 8 months. It's important to not only to understand the information we read and hear but also to relay the correct information when trying to help others understand. Otherwise, we're doing a disservice to all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RRxtar
and everyone says they had some sort of unproveable suffering, even with a small fender bender? the cap on the 'pain and suffering' is to put a cap on those 'injury' claims. not on legitimate injury claims, which you can see by the fact they doubled the possible medical expense payout on those.
How much consideration has ICBC been giving to "unprovable suffering?" Is that a fact that injuries that are not proven and supported by clinical records are being cashed in and ICBC is paying for these said injuries? Where is this information coming from?
They've doubled the medical expenses for chiropractic, physio, massage treatments so that its gone from $150,000 to $300,000. Do you know how many claims hit even $150,000 in treatments? VERY FEW.
Doubling something that will very rarely be maxed is not a BENEFIT. It's a distraction. Even being injured for 4-5 years, it will be VERY unlikely that one would be able to reach $150,000 in rehab needs. There may be the super RARE cases where injuries are so extreme that they may require those benefits. Majority of injury claims will not need anywhere close to that amount.
FYI: $300,000 in chiropractic treatments is nearly 6,000 visits. That's a potential of $120,000 in out-of-pocket expenses in user-fees.
TBH, I'm not even sure they'll get minor injury caps to stick.
There's a lot of pushback against it.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I think this post leads to an interesting question, one that I have always pondered myself. What is it about BC that attracts such unethical people? Why does this Province seem to carry some of the more dishonest and "scammy" type of people? What is the catalyst for this, would we dare say the type of immigrants that have came to this city?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MG1
ICBC works. Period. The government needs to keep their dick out of it. Sucking up any and all the profits from it. For those who want to open insurance up to anyone, careful what you wish for.
With all the scammers out there in our province, private insurance will be forced to adjust and it won't be so pretty. Can't compare what happens in Ontario or anywhere else on this planet. We have really, really dumb drivers. Add the droves of dishonest people we have in our neck of the woods to that mix and it's no wAnder we're screwed.
Nobody can predict how it's going to turn out, but privatizing may not be a good solution or alternative. What it might do, is penalize the bad drivers and the ones who scam the system.
It's like our health care system. Three times as many Healthcare Cards as there are bona fide residents?????
If you scam, you get deported, lifetime ban from driving in this province, etc. A bit harsh, perhaps, but when push comes to shove, legitimate citizens should not have to compensate for the leeches out there who continually suck us dry.
I think this post leads to an interesting question, one that I have always pondered myself. What is it about BC that attracts such unethical people? Why does this Province seem to carry some of the more dishonest and "scammy" type of people? What is the catalyst for this, would we dare say the type of immigrants that have came to this city?
what makes you think there are more scammy people in BC?
Look at where all the population is in Canada Ontario/Quebec/BC.
Toronto
Montreal
Vancouver
How much you wanna bet there are more unethical people in these big cities than there are in moosejaw ? its based on density, not ethnic groups.
__________________ Geriatric Motoring Crub Member #444
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
From what i see, the proposed changes benefit at-fault drivers more than those injured by at-fault drivers. Victims get the caps while at-fault drivers have more access to rehab and wage loss benefits.
I was hoping at-fault drivers would have higher costs or have to pay for benefits out of pocket or increased deductible, etc.
I think this post leads to an interesting question, one that I have always pondered myself. What is it about BC that attracts such unethical people? Why does this Province seem to carry some of the more dishonest and "scammy" type of people? What is the catalyst for this, would we dare say the type of immigrants that have came to this city?
Dog eat dog mentality. Seeing all the shit that's going with housing and rich people doing what they can to make a buck off someone's back.
That and a combination of certain ethnicities that breed that unethical behaviour as the norm?
I also believe it's a city thing. No one knows neighbours really anymore, mind your own business, shitty traffic, shitty people, it just drags you down to the point of, "why the eff would I care as well?"
-----------
Why can ICBC penalize shitty drivers more financially. And hey..here's a thought, make the test harder? Took over 4 times to pass, I have zero accidents in 10 years of driving.
Mother? Holy crap...shouldn't have passed (1st try - that examiner was smoking crack). As a kid, I was even scared of her driving (Multiple accidents until we pretty much got her to stop driving). ICBC should make exams more strict - maybe that'd create better drivers. Crazy thought.
Last edited by subordinate; 02-07-2018 at 07:20 PM.
Exams definitely should be tougher but I wish knowledge of good practice was also part of the test ie/ zipper merging, getting the hell out of the left lane if you're a slow pos, better speed management by coasting instead of throttling and braking constantly on the highway etc.
Possibly undercover surveillance RCMP cars? As per YouTube comments.
After watching the video a few times, the manuvers look executed like a police officer.
But then again, being an arm chair observer, I could be wrong.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_AK
Or you meet some girl at the club, cum inside of her, find out shes only in grade 12, so you buy a Prada bag for her to make things right, she finds out the bag is a fake and decides to have the kid
Quote:
Originally Posted by RX_Renesis
wtf did she get some bolt-on titties or what?
they look sooooooooooo much bigger than they were 2ish years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nns
I can't stand the sound of Mandarin either. Boo yow nee bey nee shing bo now noong gey shee mayo mayo mayo mayo mayo mayo mayo.
I am skeptical about them being undercover RCMP surveillance cars. At a minimum, even if I suspect that is the case, I am not going to blindly believe a random poster on Reddit.
Had the undercover RCMP surveillance suggestion came from a well established news media outlet, then I'd find that more credible.
What in the flying eff was that shit. Even if it was actual undercover police pretty sure they're required to light up their lights if they're going to run a red. Almost certain these are just Richmond idiots being even bigger idiots.
There is no requirement for police officers to light up, especially when trying to maintain discretion... though doing so does decrease the crown's liability in the event of an accident if they failed to properly clear the intersection before proceeding.
I've seen both that exact Highlander and Accord (No Pilot however) drive together in the same fashion a few months back on Renfrew and 1st. They passed stopped traffic in the left turn lane and crept through the red light then started to speed up once they got across the intersection. It wouldn't be surprising if they were cops based on how they maneuvered like TypeR mentioned above. Unfortunately I was driving a car that didn't have a dash cam at the time otherwise I would've posted it.
At $150,000 ICBC's Part 7 accident benefits are the highest in Canada, I believe. I've done work in the Yukon and it's $10k there. Figuring out liability can also be a mess. I'd like to see ICBC run properly and not raped for cash.
Why can ICBC penalize shitty drivers more financially. And hey..here's a thought, make the test harder? Took over 4 times to pass, I have zero accidents in 10 years of driving.
ICBC should make exams more strict - maybe that'd create better drivers. Crazy thought.
the most logical and most effective idea, but will never happen because it's political suicide
what we should have is the German system:
Quote:
The German driving licence can be obtained after finishing driving school and passing a two-stage test, the theory test and road test. Before being allowed to take these tests an eye-exam must have been performed and a first-aid course (usually lasts 8 hours) completed.
The learner driver's training usually takes place in legally authorised and mostly privately-owned, for-profit driving schools. The driving school handles all the necessary paperwork for the students, such as: applying for a licence, registering for tests etc.
The theoretical part of the education comprises lessons at the driving school, held by legally authorised driving instructors, typically in the evening. The content and number of the lessons is set by law and depending on the type of licence the student wishes to acquire;a different number of lessons has to be attended.
Did a quick scan of the thread and didn't see this posted (though one post had the pain and suffering figure). Sorry if it has already been posted.
David Eby said the average cost of a payout involving a minor injury claimed through ICBC for 2016 was approximately $30,000.
That approximately $30,000 broken down is approximately $16500 in pain and suffering, $7500 in medical care and lost wages, and $6000 in legal costs and expert reports.
The new proposal involves:
- A $5500 cap on pain and suffering for minor injuries, indexed to inflation
- An independent tribunal to handle injury disputes rather than the court system
- Overall benefit cap will increase from $150,000 to $300,000 (primarily for medical care)
- Maximum wage loss benefits will increase from $300/week to $740/week
- Homemaking benefits will increase from $145/week to $280/week
- Funeral benefits will increase from $2500 to $7500
- Death benefits will increase from $17580 to $30000
For accidents that result in minor injuries, this should drastically cut down ICBC's costs as it will reduce pain and suffering by at least $11,000 and legal costs by $5,500 minus whatever it costs to run the tribunal for a dispute (if that even comes out of ICBC's budget). Medical care and lost wages will go up, offsetting some of that roughly $16k savings, but overall, it'll probably cut their costs for minor injuries by at least $10k on average, I'd figure.
More severe injuries will result in better care and compensation with double the benefits cap and 2.5x the lost wages cap.
I'm assuming ICBC/Eby have run the data and found the vast majority of injury claims are minor, otherwise the benefits increases don't make sense for trying to save money.
The new proposal involves:
- A $5500 cap on pain and suffering for minor injuries, indexed to inflation
- An independent tribunal to handle injury disputes rather than the court system
- Overall benefit cap will increase from $150,000 to $300,000 (primarily for medical care)
- Maximum wage loss benefits will increase from $300/week to $740/week
- Homemaking benefits will increase from $145/week to $280/week
- Funeral benefits will increase from $2500 to $7500
- Death benefits will increase from $17580 to $30000
For accidents that result in minor injuries, this should drastically cut down ICBC's costs as it will reduce pain and suffering by at least $11,000 and legal costs by $5,500 minus whatever it costs to run the tribunal for a dispute (if that even comes out of ICBC's budget). Medical care and lost wages will go up, offsetting some of that roughly $16k savings, but overall, it'll probably cut their costs for minor injuries by at least $10k on average, I'd figure.
Quick note: The tribunal isn't a new or specialized tribunal for ICBC claims. The CRT was introduced last summer as major changes were made to the Small Claims system in our Provincial Courts.
Last summer, the amount that could be claimed in small claims was increased to $35,000. In addition, the Small Claims Tribunal (CRT) was established to handle civil claims that were $5,000 or less. This is still very much a legal process using rules and procedures adopted from the Small Claims Act.
A decent chunk of the attributed costs in the above quoted example came down to legal costs and expert reports . Medical reports from experts cost easily $1,500 - $2,500 a report. Two attending doctors (a General Practitioner and a Chiropractor) and you will quickly be at ~ $5,000 for just medical reports. Those expenses will still be there even if it's a CRT matter and will continue to be there even if caps are implemented.
I also wonder how many ICBC files actually get litigated in court? To be clear, I'm not wondering how many ICBC files are filed in court but rather what percentage of ICBC related insurance settlements are decided in a courtroom. I'd be surprised to hear if it was as high as even 5% of all claims.
The rest of the above aforementioned benefits, typically (I'm using) those benefits are all coverage and will continue to be covered through existing 3rd party insurance plans that many British Columbians already have (ManuLife, SunLife, etc).
Death benefits, wage loss and funeral benefits are all benefits that people typically have (I'm assuming) through work or self purchased insurance plans other than auto insurance. If an insured has benefits from a 3rd party company for any of those above mentioned setbacks or death, they will be required to use those benefits from the 3rd party insurance companies before ICBC will set up and pay.
Again, these new "improvements" that have been brought forth by ICBC look great on paper but offer very little to everyday driver.
I seem to recall the figure for 2016 was 51% of minor injury claims involved a lawyer, but I don’t currently have time to verify that as I’m getting ready for work. I don’t recall any figures for how many actually went through the full court process.
They use the wording "minor injuries". What defines a minor injury and when is an injury considered major?
__________________
The world ain't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place... and I donīt care how tough you are, it will beat you to your knees and keep you there permanently, if you let it. You, me or nobody, is gonna hit as hard as life. But ain't about how hard you hit... It's about how hard you can get hit, and keep moving forward... how much you can take, and keep moving forward. Thatīs how winning is done. Now, if you know what you worth, go out and get what you worth. - Rocky Balboa
Nope, they lease them... they can just swap them out to other projects/targets. Surveillance cars get burned by targets all the time, it's no big deal.
They use the wording "minor injuries". What defines a minor injury and when is an injury considered major?
"Minor injuries include mild whiplash, aches and sprains, cuts and bruises and anxiety. But if those injuries persist beyond 12 months and have a significant impact on work or school, they are no longer considered minor or under the cap. Broken bones or concussions are automatically considered major injuries."
"Minor injuries include mild whiplash, aches and sprains, cuts and bruises and anxiety. But if those injuries persist beyond 12 months and have a significant impact on work or school, they are no longer considered minor or under the cap. Broken bones or concussions are automatically considered major injuries."
Bet $10 we'll see a massive increase in concussions.
__________________
Have an E38? Check out E38Registry.org!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
The banners on the left side and below do not show for registered users!
