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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
The question I have is would people like Manic and all the other "we need gun control" shouters be happy if the USA adopted Canadian-type firearms laws?
The second question I have is whether that would bring American gun violence down to Canadian levels or would they remain higher, and if so, why?
I'd like them to at least try it. The problem is it won't fix anything immediately because there's so many guns circulating America due to generations of making it easy as pie to buy them. There lies the problem, unless there's a fix over night gun lovers will jump at every shooting (even if there are less) to point out that there's still shootings happening with gun laws, so why bother having any at all.
Nothing will change unless the US government starts treating the gun industry like the tobacco industry. Even then, it'll take years, probably decades, before it has a significant impact.
That said, the status quo of doing absolutely nothing and expecting things to get better is ridiculous.
The question I have is would people like Manic and all the other "we need gun control" shouters be happy if the USA adopted Canadian-type firearms laws?
The second question I have is whether that would bring American gun violence down to Canadian levels or would they remain higher, and if so, why?
Also, the problem with gun control arguments is the majority of people wanting gun control go all the way and want a complete gun ban, which forces ALL firearm owners to resist it. For some reason we always end up in binary discussions. Do I think the USA needs to make changes to their gun laws, ABSOLUTELY! Crazy people shouldn't be able to aquire semi auto rifles and handguns and carry them in public. If the changes mean all americans and canadians need to give up their guns, or go way overboard on regulating them to the point where law abiding people cant hunt or sport shoot, then I will fight against it.
People don't want to ban all guns that's just the NRA trying to scare people into buying more guns.
If in the US you needed to get a pal before you could buy a gun the Florida would not have been able to buy a gun. To get a PAL you need two references. This guy was a loner and would not have been able to get two people two vouch for him.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
No school is stupid enough to train or tell a student/teacher to risk their life and be that person who stands by the door to attack the shooter. Instant lawsuit.
Why do you even need "training" to swing or throw a chair?
IMO it's not like it would matter much anyway, just because someone goes to a shooting range half a dozen times doesn't make him John Wick. I would think in a real life situation it's more about nerves than anything.
They are just less likely to happen, because of the "culture" surrounding guns in the USA. Americans see gun ownership as an entitlement rather than a privilege, similar to how North Americans see a drivers' license as an entitlement. I have a PAL and I own several guns myself, but I don't feel the need to carry when I'm getting groceries or mailing a parcel at the post office. I don't feel a need to carry anywhere. Lots of Americans do. A good buddy of mine works at the land border (can't say where) but they intercept a shit-ton of guns from Americans who view carrying a gun everywhere as commonplace, like you or I would view carrying a wallet or cellphone as normal.
Moreover, as someone else pointed out above, there has been a massive shift towards a "culture of hate" in the USA. IMO, a lot of that whole "culture of hate" argument can be attributed to a mental health problem that is going unchecked in America. There are very little in the way of background/psychological tests that prevent people with mental health issues from obtaining firearms.
We also don't have stupid lobby groups like the NRA who are perfectly willing to sacrifice the lives of victims and perpetuate injustice, all in the name of selling more guns. Who do you think is pushing against the background checks and psychological tests that the majority of Americans actually do want? All so a few people can get rich.
As for the "bad guys with guns" argument, it's a whole lot easier for a criminal to get a gun when there are 90 guns out of every 100 people (stat: https://www.statista.com/chart/11340...more-firearms/). I would bet good money that the majority of guns in American homes are not secured in any way. Break into a Canadian house, and you likely won't find a gun. And if you do, it's probably locked up in a safe, the guns themselves are disassembled and/or have trigger locks, and the ammunition is in a different place entirely.
Lastly, the reasoning behind gun ownership between Canada and the US are wildly different. I, and most of my gun-owning friends, don't own guns for "defense of the home" (Canadian laws regarding locks and where ammunition should be kept/stored makes this a little bit impossible), nor do I own guns because I believe in some God-given right to overthrow the government when the day comes. I own guns because I like guns. Americans own guns because they feel a "need" for it.
Gun control won't really do much in the ghettos where they play by their own rules anyway.
Gun control won't really do much to middle-upper class sociopaths who have no grasp with reality. The US needs better mental health reform. When the FBI gets flagged about someone and their dangerous tendencies, they should be committed and evaluated. Giving them drugs and sending them on their merry way isn't going to accomplish shit in the long term.
Lastly, the reasoning behind gun ownership between Canada and the US are wildly different. I, and most of my gun-owning friends, don't own guns for "defense of the home" (Canadian laws regarding locks and where ammunition should be kept/stored makes this a little bit impossible), nor do I own guns because I believe in some God-given right to overthrow the government when the day comes. I own guns because I like guns. Americans own guns because they feel a "need" for it.
BINGO.
Biggest difference between American and Canadian behaviour is trust.
And you can't legislate trust.
People act like solutions are one dimensional and simple. It's got much less to do with the number of guns or even availability and much more to do with the reason people feel the need to have them.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Gun control won't really do much in the ghettos where they play by their own rules anyway.
Gun control won't really do much to middle-upper class sociopaths who have no grasp with reality. The US needs better mental health reform. When the FBI gets flagged about someone and their dangerous tendencies, they should be committed and evaluated. Giving them drugs and sending them on their merry way isn't going to accomplish shit in the long term.
Mental health reform? People don't even have basic health care in the US and you want mental health reform. The shooters mother died recently because she had the flu but did not go see a doctor probably because of the cost. Without universal healthcare how are you going to take care of the mentally ill?
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Part of the problem, I think, is that people who hate guns and gun rights cannot believe that people disagree with them in good faith. There must be evil motives, chiefly greed, that explain everything.
The simple reality is that the NRA doesn’t need to spend a lot of money convincing politicians to protect gun rights. All it needs to do is spend a little money clarifying that a great many of those politicians’ constituents care deeply about gun rights.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
A lot of what was said in that article mirrors my argument that it is a cultural problem and a mental health problem plaguing the USA, rather than it just being about guns:
Quote:
Four out of 10 Americans have a gun in their household, according to a Pew Research Center survey. Seventy-three percent of gun owners say they can’t imagine not owning a gun. A quarter of gun owners say having a gun is very important to their overall identity.
Also, the problem with gun control arguments is the majority of people wanting gun control go all the way and want a complete gun ban, which forces ALL firearm owners to resist it.
Really? In my experience most want a system more like what Canada has, it's only the pro-2nd crowd that seems to think that's what they are wanting. Any mention of any kind of control gets a "YOU WANNA TAKE ALL MAH GUNZ?!?!?!" response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tone Loc
I own guns because I like guns. Americans own guns because they feel a "need" for it.
I'd say that most Canadians that own guns are either people who are interested in guns or hunting. Whereas many Americans that own guns have no interest in them, why is likely why they're so careless with them.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
Last edited by underscore; 02-15-2018 at 08:56 PM.
A lot of what was said in that article mirrors my argument that it is a cultural problem and a mental health problem plaguing the USA, rather than it just being about guns:
Absolutely.
The Mental health problems plague the USA as a horrible epidemic much worse than the rest of the world for some reason.... =\
I'm not sure if it was asked already, but what type of new gun control law do people suppose would have prevented this?
I'm genuinely curious.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Four out of 10 Americans have a gun in their household, according to a Pew Research Center survey. Seventy-three percent of gun owners say they can’t imagine not owning a gun. A quarter of gun owners say having a gun is very important to their overall identity.
That's because they have been brainwashed by the NRA.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Firearms are a big part of my life. I hunt and live a hunting lifestyle and spend a significant part of my life in the bush and have more than enough guns and ammo. I'm not brainwashed by the nra, nor have I ever had a thought to use one of my guns to harm someone, or really use one for personal defence.
Not everyone who has guns in their life have them for self defense.
You guys forget that half the country doesn't live in a big city and guns are part of their lives. A generation ago before we all got so soft tons of kids grew up with a .22 plinking cans in the back field.
Firearms are a big part of my life. I hunt and live a hunting lifestyle and spend a significant part of my life in the bush and have more than enough guns and ammo. I'm not brainwashed by the nra, nor have I ever had a thought to use one of my guns to harm someone, or really use one for personal defence.
Not everyone who has guns in their life have them for self defense.
You guys forget that half the country doesn't live in a big city and guns are part of their lives. A generation ago before we all got so soft tons of kids grew up with a .22 plinking cans in the back field.
You hunt with your guns. The shooter was not a hunter yet had a large arsenal of guns. Can you explain why?
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
I found that NRA video to be pretty disturbing. It actually made no sense to me. Coming from a guy it might not, since I don't have the statistical chance to be sexually assaulted. But I was thinking, what are the chances of being sexually assaulted on the street, vs the gun discharging by accident or having a gun taken by the assaulter.
I think the camera phone these days have become the best tool for self defense. Especially if you can identify and track down a perpetrator, then justice will be service one way or another with minimal risk to oneself.
since the shooter is alive and in custody maybe they can get a insight for the motive, also seems like he got his gun legit and passed background checks.
“He was definitely not accepted at our school socially. People saw him as someone who was different than the normal people at our school,” Parodie added.
Douglas High has a place students call “the Emo Gazebo,” he said. “That’s where all the kids that are considered weird or not accepted sat. Kids at the Emo Gazebo didn’t even accept him there. He was just an outcast... He didn’t have any friends.”
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