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Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

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Old 06-13-2018, 08:40 PM   #76
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i'm assuming there was a left turner where Chung's Audi was coming up and thus visibility was a concern

even if Hui was slowly peeking out it would probably caused Chung's almost tripling of the speed limit to swerve and kill someone else

'07 RS4 60-0 braking distance is 36m

add another 40kph and he probably would've need like half a block's length to come to a stop, that's assuming perfect conditions (dry road, new brakes/tires, wasn't hauling heavy stuff in the trunk and ofc instantaneous reaction time)

ugh.
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:54 PM   #77
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now it kinda makes sense how the doc couldn't judge the speed of the Audi if he was weaving in and outta traffic or driving in the slow lane.

But if you already have blind pots or you can't see the traffic in all lanes, why would you turn then?
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:38 PM   #78
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That is a good point. In a perfect world the turn would not have been made. However, the lane would appear to be clear, given the situation. As seen in the video below.


I found the following video helpful as well, though it doesn't show the blind spot created when the centre lane slows down and a faster outside lane enters a intersection. The truck example shows what would of ideally happened in this case.


Pretty sure if this happened in Alberta or Ontario, this guy would be in jail right now. I did a quick google search for BC and no sites show up regarding being criminally negligent with a motor vehicle. Good news fellas! We're free to speed recklessly through city streets and not go to jail.
http://clg.ab.ca/programs-services/d...iving-offence/
https://www.legalline.ca/legal-answe...al-negligence/
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:40 PM   #79
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preaching to the choir but in the above video, to prevent this kinda accident happening again

left turner: don't go unless you're 99.99% sure it's clear
if you're sitting in the outer/middle lane and keeping the intersection clear and see this accident about to happen...start honking!
guys going at or above speed limit in the curb lane...(I do this often myself)...anticipate for left turners when the outer/middle lane is backed up...even when the congested intersection looks clear I slow down to 30kph just in case
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Old 06-14-2018, 12:21 AM   #80
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the hell was that sienna stopping for, he/she should've been given the fault as well for causing confusion?
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Old 06-14-2018, 08:44 AM   #81
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the hell was that sienna stopping for, he/she should've been given the fault as well for causing confusion?
Traffic in the center lane could have been at standstill and it is illegal for the Sienna to block the intersection.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:45 AM   #82
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Traffic in the center lane could have been at standstill and it is illegal for the Sienna to block the intersection.
seemed very unlikely, sienna started braking at the last second at the light, and you can see there's no traffic in front as the cam vehicle move to check the collision.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:50 AM   #83
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Of course, Sienna pulls away and leaves the scene of accident.

There are plenty of fault to be distributed to all three drivers in that scenario. Sometimes one bad decision can cause accident but when you have the convergence of three bad decisions in one intersection ... it would be a miracle for an accident to be avoided in that textbook case of dumb, dumber, and even dumber.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:55 PM   #84
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the case will be reviewed for an appeal process thanks to the 55k signatures
didn't someone say it's 1000% useless?
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:01 PM   #85
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1000% usless.
You suck so bad!

https://globalnews.ca/news/4275430/a...-chung-appeal/

The appeal comes after Monique organized a Change.org petition that urged the Crown to appeal the case.

It had drawn over 50,000 signatures by Thursday afternoon.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:26 AM   #86
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Our justice system does suck. I don’t know if any of you guys remember this story but the driver was impaired and killed a doctor and his fiancée, didn’t even have to serve his full sentence. I know because he was my high school classmate (not my friend btw)

2-death hit-run driver sentenced to 5 years | CBC News
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Old 06-15-2018, 08:02 PM   #87
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IF the centre lane was not backed up imo that Sienna should be mostly at fault for stopping at a green light. I think it should be 50% Sienna fault and 50% left turner. IF the centre lane was back up. Which i doubt it was.
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Old 06-15-2018, 09:27 PM   #88
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I'm still trying to wrap my head around how 140 was a momentary departure in normalcy like the judge says, like holy fuck. How fucking soft of a judge can u get.
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Old 06-18-2018, 06:54 AM   #89
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You suck so bad!

https://globalnews.ca/news/4275430/a...-chung-appeal/

The appeal comes after Monique organized a Change.org petition that urged the Crown to appeal the case.

It had drawn over 50,000 signatures by Thursday afternoon.
And? You don't need a petition to file an appeal, they could have appealed 2 secs after they were handed a decision, and they would have anyway. The courts are not going to reverse a decision because a bunch of teens under 18 on a forum signed typed their names on a website. Go look through some of those petitions, 50 Cent and Bill Clinton signs almost every one. I'm sure the Canadian courts will take it very seriously.

If I was the family, I'd be upset too but that's not how the laws and courts work. The count saw, heard and used past cases to decide on the outcome and punishment.


Their appeal has ZERO to do with the petition. No one can file a petition besides the family and lawyer. See here: http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc...eal-appel.html


That would be fucking retarded.

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Old 06-18-2018, 07:01 AM   #90
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Actually there is good reason to appeal. In this case below Tracey Dawn Smith was high, drunk and enraged when she crossed the center line and killed a motorcyclist.

She got one day in jail.

After appeal she got two years in jail.

https://www.vicnews.com/news/one-day...cy-dawn-smith/
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Old 06-18-2018, 07:52 AM   #91
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It's quite clear that the accident caused death, the question then becomes "was the driving dangerous?"

Criminal Code of Canada (Dangerous Driving)

249 (1) Every one commits an offence who operates

(a) a motor vehicle in a manner that is dangerous to the public, having regard to all the circumstances, including the nature, condition and use of the place at which the motor vehicle is being operated and the amount of traffic that at the time is or might reasonably be expected to be at that place.


The Offence of Dangerous Driving Causing Death



[59] The Supreme Court of Canada in R. v. Beatty, supra, restated the test in R. v. Hundal, supra, for dangerous driving at page 247:


A) The Actus Reus



The trier of fact must be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that, viewed objectively, the accused was, in the words of the section, driving in a manner that was "dangerous to the public, having regard to all the circumstances, including the nature, condition and use of the place at which the motor vehicle was being operated and the amount of traffic that at the time is or might reasonably be expected to be at that place".

B) The Mens Rea (the intention or knowledge of wrongdoing that constitutes part of a crime, as opposed to the action or conduct of the accused)



The trier of fact must also be satisfied beyond a reasonable doubt that the accused's objectively dangerous conduct was accompanied by the required mens rea. In making the objective assessment, the trier of fact should be satisfied on the basis of all the evidence, including evidence about the accused's actual state of mind, if any, that the conduct amounted to a marked departure from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the accused's circumstances. Moreover, if an explanation is offered by the accused, then in order to convict, the trier of fact must be satisfied that a reasonable person in similar circumstances ought to have been aware of the risk and of the danger involved in the conduct manifested by the accused.



[60] Chief Justice McLachlin concurring in the result, concluded the correct statement of the law as follows:


1) The actus reus requires a marked departure from the normal manner of driving.

2) The mens rea is generally inferred from the marked departure in the nature of driving. Based on the finding of a marked departure, it is inferred that the accused lacked the requisite mental state of care of a reasonable person.

3) While generally the mens rea is inferred from the act constituting a marked departure committed by the accused, the evidence in a particular case may negate or cast a reasonable doubt on this inference.



[61] Justice Fish, also concurring in the result, stated the test as follows:



The fault element, however, is not the marked departure from the norm of a reasonably prudent driver but the fact that a reasonably prudent driver in the accused’s circumstances would have been aware of the risk of that conduct, and if able to do so, would have acted to avert it. This requisite mental element may only be inferred where the impugned conduct represents a marked departure from the norm; it cannot be inferred from the mere fact that he or she operated the motor vehicle in a dangerous manner.

I think the appeal is valid based on the argument that travelling 140km/h in a 50km/h zone represents a marked departure from the normal manner of driving.

I'm willing to bet that the accused will be back in court shortly.


Somewhat related, dangerous driving causing death vs. manslaughter (It's a bit of a read)

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Old 06-18-2018, 07:58 AM   #92
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This is why I HATE it when cars stop for me to "cross" as a pedestrian. I'd much rather they continue and not disturb the flow of traffic. Yet by courtesy I am supposed to thank them for stopping for me.
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:44 PM   #93
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Dash cam video released

https://globalnews.ca/news/4280677/d...hui-ken-chung/
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Old 06-18-2018, 12:45 PM   #94
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https://globalnews.ca/news/4280677/d...hui-ken-chung/

dash cam released
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:14 PM   #95
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Fucking Christ. Hard to watch, and such blatant disregard for anything.
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Old 06-18-2018, 01:36 PM   #96
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^ The judge didn't consider that criminal negligence? Somebody give that judge a good shake in the head!
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:00 PM   #97
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And? You don't need a petition to file an appeal, they could have appealed 2 secs after they were handed a decision, and they would have anyway. The courts are not going to reverse a decision because a bunch of teens under 18 on a forum signed typed their names on a website. Go look through some of those petitions, 50 Cent and Bill Clinton signs almost every one. I'm sure the Canadian courts will take it very seriously.

If I was the family, I'd be upset too but that's not how the laws and courts work. The count saw, heard and used past cases to decide on the outcome and punishment.

That would be fucking retarded.
you don't need good grades to apply for any school
you don't need good credit to buy a car

but you don't believe 70k names for a local case and the subsequent news coverage and social media spotlight after only a week has any weight?

are you friends/related to the judge, defense lawyer or Ken Chung?
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Old 06-18-2018, 02:39 PM   #98
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Geez it almost looked like the Audi got air going into the intersection, absolutely insane
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Old 06-18-2018, 03:00 PM   #99
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Fucking Christ. Hard to watch, and such blatant disregard for anything.
He drove like an idiot causing someone to die. And then wracked up yet another excessive speeding ticket in 2017 so clearly he doesn't GAF.

Head to https://justice.gov.bc.ca/cso/esearc...partySearch.do, punch in 'Ken Chung'.

Document 243920-1 was for his charge for CCC - 249(4) Dangerous driving causing death.

Then AH99217632-1 was for his excessive speeding ticket in 2017.
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Old 06-18-2018, 04:08 PM   #100
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That's fucking garbage. How do you see a video like that and still acquit the guy?

It would be one thing if the guy sped up to pass and did like ... 70 or 80 ... but 140 ... fuck ... That's auto-impound territory on the fucking highway, let alone city streets.
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