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Vancouver Auto Chat 2016 VAC Community Head Moderator: Raid3n

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Old 07-05-2018, 08:27 AM   #26
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already doing this with my 93 GSR. To get it up to collector plate status would prob need a couple grand in bodywork as ICBC is very strict on what cars they hand the plates to. Otherwise insurance is around 2k annually for basic
wtf
your annual insurance worth almost as much as your 25 year old car
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:31 AM   #27
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so beaters are not your thing and neither are Caymans, why don't you list some actual sports cars?
There aren’t sports cars for $5000. That’s the point. For that price point I’d probably buy a 5L mustang or an Camaro and spend the rest on some decent tires. While those might not be as “exhilierating” as driving a Miata with your hair blowing in the wind up the sea to sky as least they provide a little thrill when you step on the gas.

Sub 250hp cars aren’t exciting to me. Cars like FRS and BRZ are a joke.

I’ve driven literally dozens of Type R, Type S variants in my time. Drove a R32 GTS-T for a while in auto X, have had some “professional” driver training during that time as well. I had a B18C5 EG hatch, it was fun when I was 18, now I’d feel like a clown driving it.

After driving true performance cars getting into a car that was literally made as a economical commuter car is like eating at a Michelin Star then having someone tell you McDonald’s is excellent.

I’ll preface my cayman comment by saying I find them soulless compared to the air cooled 911’s as I drive a 993 on a fairly regular basis and that car is night and day in terms of a “drivers car”

I’ve also driven Aventador, Ferrari 458, and a GTR on the track at exotics racing in a Vegas so obviously my yearning for performance is a little jaded.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:44 AM   #28
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already doing this with my 93 GSR. To get it up to collector plate status would prob need a couple grand in bodywork as ICBC is very strict on what cars they hand the plates to. Otherwise insurance is around 2k annually for basic
I've worked on cars in shit condition with collector plates.
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:53 PM   #29
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I've worked on cars in shit condition with collector plates.
Once you have collector plates, it appears the province will allow you to let the car become a complete heap of shit and retain your cheap insurance. But what's that, you want to register a new car for collector plates...and we can see a paint chip on the steering wheel? Nope!

The best part is when their "expert" decides that a factory available option was not available, and thus your car isn't eligible for collector plates. What's that? The North American club for that particular make/model confirms that it was indeed a factory available option? Well, guess what. ICBC's "expert" apparently knows more than the club does, DENIED!!

I'm a fan...can you tell? :P
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:57 PM   #30
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If you read OP's post again, he is not looking for a "sports cars", he didn't even use the word "sporty". All he want is something different to get away from everyday SUV/mini VAN life, and at the same time without adding too much economic burden to family or consuming too much time on fixing the car.
BMW/AUDI are fun cars but parts are expensive and fixing those car are sometimes (usually) frustrated.
Everyone has their own definition of being fun, but fun cars are not necessarily fast/performance cars like Aventador, Ferrari 458, and GTR. Especially on the street, you can't even really enjoy it without risking to be ticketed.

My 97 Integra cost me $1,400 annually with full coverage (3M/300/300) at 43% discount. I couldn't imagine someone is paying $2000 for just basic insurance, unless you don't have 43% discount. If you don't have 43% discount then it's not making financial sense to insure second/3rd without necessity.
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Old 07-05-2018, 03:31 PM   #31
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^^ Yep i'm at 35%. Basic was ~1700 after discount and Comp @ 500 deduct was ~400 and I had 1M liability. Only insured it for a month cause I was working on both cars . Fun fact though, with the exact same coverage on a new WRX vs a 25 year old Integra, the insurance difference was less than $500 annually
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Old 07-05-2018, 04:43 PM   #32
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The best part is when their "expert" decides that a factory available option was not available, and thus your car isn't eligible for collector plates. What's that? The North American club for that particular make/model confirms that it was indeed a factory available option? Well, guess what. ICBC's "expert" apparently knows more than the club does, DENIED!!

I'm a fan...can you tell? :P
Can you tell us more about the ICBC "expert" and how the scrutinizing process works?
How does ICBC find them/hire them and what are their qualifications?

Thanks
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:22 PM   #33
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Can you tell us more about the ICBC "expert" and how the scrutinizing process works?
How does ICBC find them/hire them and what are their qualifications?

Thanks
I have never worked for ICBC, so I cannot say. But I can tell you as the guy who owns Classic Car Adventures, I hear a _LOT_ of personal experiences of ICBC clients, or from other sources with direct connections to things that have happened.

Years ago ICBC had a very knowledgeable person running the program who was at one time (or is) a concours judge, journalist, panel beater, restoration expert, appraiser, etc. The qualifications of the guy who currently runs the program, I don't know. I have googled in the past, but can't come up with anything.

When you send in your collector car photos, they are evaluated by a _very_ small team. Three or less, possibly one individual (I was told exactly how many back in April, but I honestly don't remember the answer and can't be bothered to call the man who knows to ask). I can't tell you how your photos are evaluated, as I've never worked there or worked with the person personally. It's my understanding that if an owner is denied and complains, it's most likely going to be re-evaluated or determined by the head of the collector car program. His word is essentially king, there is no recourse on his decisions. I can tell you I have heard some bizzare stories that I know 100% are true...stories which make wonderful Cars and Coffee chat.

Personally, I see many issues with the collector car program. The way cars are evaluated doesn't appear (to me) to be consistent. The modified program is based on muscle cars, and doesn't have flexibility for make or marque specific trends. There is no accounting for unrestored vehicles in excellent condition with some flaws...vehicles that would be devalued by restoration. If the system is so difficult to get plates for, why is there no check-and-balance to ensure a vehicle is maintained to that standard?
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Old 07-05-2018, 11:09 PM   #34
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There aren’t sports cars for $5000. That’s the point.
but there are
unless of course Jay is a shill powered by the hairdressers' society

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Old 07-06-2018, 02:51 PM   #35
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If you read OP's post again, he is not looking for a "sports cars", he didn't even use the word "sporty". All he want is something different to get away from everyday SUV/mini VAN life, and at the same time without adding too much economic burden to family or consuming too much time on fixing the car.
BMW/AUDI are fun cars but parts are expensive and fixing those car are sometimes (usually) frustrated.
Everyone has their own definition of being fun, but fun cars are not necessarily fast/performance cars like Aventador, Ferrari 458, and GTR. Especially on the street, you can't even really enjoy it without risking to be ticketed.
Pretty accurate right here. My previous daily drivers before the Sienna were:
2000 Civic si-r
2004 Civic si-r
2009 Acura TSX
2007 Volvo S60R
2015 Subaru WRX
All were stick shift. I had a blast on all these cars.

For daily driving, I'm a believer of "More fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is to drive a fast car slow." Just mostly for driving on solo grocery runs, gym, etc.

My main criteria for a fun beater is:
- manual transmission
- cheap to buy
- cheap to insure
- won't break the bank to maintain
- won't handle like a boat (smaller car)

Stock CRX, EG Civic hatch, Celica, etc would all fit the bill. But it's very hard to come across a mint one that would qualify for collector's status.

A lot of great suggestions in here. A lot of these have me considering other cars I haven't before.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:36 PM   #36
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everyone around here touting miatas as this sporty coupe, the car is absolutely guttless with a vanilla transmission and you look like a fruit cake driving it around...

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i think the actual term "hairdresser" lol
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:56 PM   #37
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Personally, I see many issues with the collector car program. The way cars are evaluated doesn't appear (to me) to be consistent. The modified program is based on muscle cars, and doesn't have flexibility for make or marque specific trends. There is no accounting for unrestored vehicles in excellent condition with some flaws...vehicles that would be devalued by restoration. If the system is so difficult to get plates for, why is there no check-and-balance to ensure a vehicle is maintained to that standard?
I also see issues, for my previous workplace I often dealt with this department and I personally know one of the 2 people who evaluates all collector car applications and he is a car lover through and through and a very good man. To be fair, ICBC has absolutely no way to follow up on the continued maintenance of a car, it's the same for a brand new car too... they assume its roadworthy when you buy it but who knows what you do to it after you purchase it? It's up to the police at best to VI it and check it's safe. We do not currently have an annual inspection program and I, for one, am happy about that! That said, if you see a collector plated car in rough shape, you are more than welcome to report them to ICBC, it's as easy as a phone call and they will send a re-evaluation letter out to the owner. I'm not afraid to admit I've done it before myself, it pisses me off that someone is taking advantage of the program, too many people do that and it will get taken away. I currently have a 1974 Capri with collector plates on it and am in the middle of the application process for my 1968 Mustang.

As for the issues, I definitely see it in the MR2 group I'm in... I have a modified 1994 model about to become eligible and the rules say the car needs to be stock with a few caveats about wheel size and some other stuff, but I've recently seen guys with 1993 models get collector's plates with 17" rims (2" more than stock), lowering springs (definitely more than 1") and various other things. I would love to keep some of my mods and I just assumed that I won't be able to and need to revert everything back to stock, so it does bother me and I have intended to ask my friend about it... the 1993 I saw recently get them should have been an obvious denial in my mind so I want to know why he was successful in his application with very obviously not era-specific wheels and way too big a size. Perhaps some cars there isn't much photographic evidence to base their decisions on? Some cars are clearly much less common than others... but I also really don't like how it appears to be somewhat random at times. I'm not sure what the fix would be though, it's never easy to base anything off of photos especially if historical evidence of that car is scarce.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:12 PM   #38
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As far as non-compliance for collector plated cars is concerned, aren't the owners putting themselves at risk by doing that? If / when ICBC finds out at the time of a collision, the insurance coverage can get denied, and then the owner has basically fxxked themselves.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:15 PM   #39
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As far as non-compliance for collector plated cars is concerned, aren't the owners putting themselves at risk by doing that? If / when ICBC finds out at the time of a collision, the insurance coverage can get denied, and then the owner has basically fxxked themselves.
Yes, it's a risk that owner is taking
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:21 PM   #40
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As for the actual spirit of this thread, I generally find less is more... I can understand the visceral thrill of an Aventador or a supercar, but I don't think I'd like to own one very much after spending significant time in a few. Plus they're not fun at ALL to take anywhere and drive, the limits are too high and too dangerous on anything this side of a racetrack.

Same with motorcycles, I've had a CBR1000 and a few other sportbikes... but they're pretty retarded, and you'd have to be retarded to push one to 10/10ths anywhere. I eventually sold mine and went down to a 250cc motard and have never had more fun. I can bang through 4 gears at redline and only be doing 100km/h, hop curbs, go through dirt and gravel and grass... it's not about being fast, it's about feeling fast and feeling everything the car is doing. Any car with a direct (ie: not electric) steer feel and brakes will provide that sensation, bonus points if it's low to the ground and gives more a sense of speed.

I feel exactly how the poster above with the Audi R8 does (minus owning an R8 hahaha), one of my favourite cars I owned was a 98 Civic Hatch... no mods... it was just FUN... I think from reading your posts OP that anything from an old 2 door Accord up to a classic BMW as long as whatever it is has a manual transmission and doesn't have that boat/swimming on its own chassis feel to the handling will tickle your fancy. Screw reliability, just get something that feels good, it's a $5k car, if it breaks horribly you sell it for $3k. It's hard to lose money in this price range unless you try to make it brand new again. Find something in half-decent shape and drive the wheels off it. I recently sold an SVT Contour that fit this description exactly.

Here's a recent quote from F1 driver Daniel Ricciardo: "I am fascinated by some modern cars and how close they can be to a race car. If I accelerate away from a set of traffic lights in a quick car, sure it feels fast, but I'm not exactly high-fiving my mate in the passenger seat. That's why I'm starting to warm towards the older stuff. It's completely different. The H-pattern gearboxes, the vibrations and all that -- I appreciate that."

Watch pretty much any Alfa Romeo video on the YouTube channel Petrolicious and you'll understand completely.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:35 PM   #41
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Old 07-11-2018, 12:21 AM   #42
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You can always allocate the money towards modding your family whip.

https://www.revscene.net/forums/7109...re-canada.html

I'm inspired to do it....well one of these days lol.
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:55 AM   #43
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There aren’t sports cars for $5000. That’s the point. For that price point I’d probably buy a 5L mustang or an Camaro and spend the rest on some decent tires. While those might not be as “exhilierating” as driving a Miata with your hair blowing in the wind up the sea to sky as least they provide a little thrill when you step on the gas.

Sub 250hp cars aren’t exciting to me. Cars like FRS and BRZ are a joke.

I’ve driven literally dozens of Type R, Type S variants in my time. Drove a R32 GTS-T for a while in auto X, have had some “professional” driver training during that time as well. I had a B18C5 EG hatch, it was fun when I was 18, now I’d feel like a clown driving it.

After driving true performance cars getting into a car that was literally made as a economical commuter car is like eating at a Michelin Star then having someone tell you McDonald’s is excellent.

I’ll preface my cayman comment by saying I find them soulless compared to the air cooled 911’s as I drive a 993 on a fairly regular basis and that car is night and day in terms of a “drivers car”

I’ve also driven Aventador, Ferrari 458, and a GTR on the track at exotics racing in a Vegas so obviously my yearning for performance is a little jaded.


Sorry, not all of us drive GTRs and Aventadors everyday. The OP obviously just wanted something a bit fun and peppy to play around with on the weekend. No one actually thinks you can get a true sports car for $5k
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:03 AM   #44
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Pretty accurate right here. My previous daily drivers before the Sienna were:
2000 Civic si-r
2004 Civic si-r
2009 Acura TSX
2007 Volvo S60R
2015 Subaru WRX
All were stick shift. I had a blast on all these cars.

For daily driving, I'm a believer of "More fun to drive a slow car fast, than it is to drive a fast car slow." Just mostly for driving on solo grocery runs, gym, etc.

My main criteria for a fun beater is:
- manual transmission
- cheap to buy
- cheap to insure
- won't break the bank to maintain
- won't handle like a boat (smaller car)

Stock CRX, EG Civic hatch, Celica, etc would all fit the bill. But it's very hard to come across a mint one that would qualify for collector's status.

A lot of great suggestions in here. A lot of these have me considering other cars I haven't before.
You need to buy this and get it out of my sight everytime i prowl cl.... I cannot have another old civic

But this rex fits everything you ask for. Its so original it might just qualify for collector plate

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/van/...627878582.html
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:50 PM   #45
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I'd suggest Preludes, though the 97 I had would be a ways away from being able to get collector plates. It was a blast to drive and cost peanuts to run. I've been told the earlier gens are fun as well.

An N/A MR2 (1st or 2nd gen) would be a good candidate, personally I prefer the 1st gen since the 2nd gen N/A MR2 and 5th gen Celica came with the less exciting engine over here. On the note of a Celica I found my 4th gen more exciting to drive than my 5th gen, but it's been over a decade since I drove one so maybe I'm looking back with rose tinted glasses a bit.

Really I'd say just keep cruising CL looking for older Japanese cars and go test drive anything that looks clean enough. Most stuff from the era you're looking for would be reliable and pretty cheap to run I'd think. If you want collectors plates I feel like something less conventional (ie Accord instead of Civic) might be easier to find unmolested.
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