Newer PHEV's were meant to run between gas and full ev mode. So if the battery goes dead, then yes you can drive it on ICE mode, but of course every car is going to have its own quirks.
For example, the BMW i3's with the range extender gasoline engines cannot run the car with the gas engine alone.

I still don't get why legacy car manufacturers put in such a small battery pack for their hybrids. Why not put enough batteries to get 100 km of range vs the 40-50 km's they do now.

I assume balancing cost/weight with the range needed for most peoples daily commute. The biggest issue I'd run into with a PHEV is I would need the gas engine so rarely the gas will have gone bad by the time I do. Do those things tend to come with a drain plug or an easy way to drain the tank at least?

I heard the same from a recent Hybrid Rav4 owner. But when you get the feel of a regular week ... can you not keep your fuel tank at 1/4 to 1/2 and let it go down gradually? Or just fill 30L at a time ..

Draining your tank ... that sounds a bit of a waste and massive effort. Maybe you can get the word out to those gas tank siphon jerks ...

Most of phev will have the option to run on gas to charge the batteries. So I guess you can just do that once in a while to use the gas, or just drive more than 100 km a day:troll:

thought someone here said their toyota phev will tell you when fuel is getting a bit stale?

to me they're stop-gaps like when we werent ready for 4k displays so it was 1440p imo if you're waiting 2 years for one might as well just jump in both feet full EV route

Packaging.

PHEV needs a big battery for usable range, a bigger motor to drive the vehicle without the ICE turning on but it still needs the regular ICE stuff like engine, gas tank etc. Basically you have two powertrains in one making it heavier, more complicated than standard ICE or EV.

Hybrids get away with this as their motor is smaller, battery is smaller etc.

Well I wouldn't throw out the gas, I'd toss it in one of the other vehicles or the lawnmower or something. Really though if I was buying a brand new car to save on gas costs I'd buy whatever is the smallest, cheapest to run thing for my daily commute (whether that's gas or EV) and then just rent a larger gas SUV when I want to go on a road trip.

1440 is better than 4k though lol

EVs still need a differential and a cooling system, though. I would imagine Tesla and other EV's claim that they are lifetime fluids, but you know how lifetime fluids are.

IMO EV's maintenance savings won't be apparent immediately. For most new cars, you just have to worry about oil changes for the first few years so that's just like $50~200 per year depending on how much you drive and who does it. It's when you need to change spark plugs and high mileage items where things can be very different.

Newer EV’s like Rivian etc. don’t have differentials where you have a motor at each wheel

And the cooling system on an EV is going to be WAY less stressed than one for an ICE.

Your typical ICE runs 90-105°C.

EV coolant runs at 40-50°C, and therefore isn't even pressurized.

I believe it if they say lifetime fill.

PHEV Pros:

- Lots of makes/models available
- HOV lane access (not guaranteed forever)
- Use less gas, positive for the environment

PHEV cons:

- Purchase price, plus gas, plus charging, plus ICE maintenance = $$$$$!!

Financially it doesn't make sense to me, but if you've got the money, then go for it and enjoy all those pros.

Yea that's the thing, once you factor in phev still needs maintenance at regular ice intervals, you are only saving on gas money, that's if the phev has enough range on pure ev to not use any gas. But then you still pay for electricity.

So it only makes sense if the phev is much cheaper than the electric version but most often times phev is the most expensive version of the car.

It's pretty crazy to think that the top trim Rav4 Prime is almost 60 grand!

I'm curious to see how the BZ4X and Solterra are going to be priced out.

how much is additional ICE maintenance though? jug of coolant and spark plugs every 8 years? $30-40/oil change? aside from tires which can be even more expensive with EVs it's peanuts compared to insurance and fuel unless audi, land rover et al

I mean it's not that crazy these days. 6 years ago a fully loaded truck was around 60k, now it's closer to 90k. You know the market is fucked when people are asking 70k for a Tacoma TRD Pro with 30k on it.

I was curious so I looked up the maintenance schedule for a 2021 Rav4 Prime and said I had a few km on it already. Per https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/owne...-schedule-form

https://i.imgur.com/2ufYN9l.png

https://i.imgur.com/nZn8712.png

https://i.imgur.com/8ivxSsx.png

https://i.imgur.com/H9vPxqv.png

https://i.imgur.com/KyLY1rF.png

They're not messing around with that floor mat lol.

An oil change every 2 years, coolant in 9 years, spark plugs in 11 years, air filters and belts as needed. What exactly is so expensive here?

I am told that people's floor mats get bunched up towards the pedals and that can cause accidents because you can't properly press the pedals.

Seemed stupid, but I think it's good they check that.

lol. The list is so long. But most of it is just inspecting stuff.
I mean, I guess if something is actually not right, it's good to catch it early.
But otherwise, it's generally just inspecting and no actual work being done on an otherwise new car.

^ That's why it cost $200 for an oil change at dealer. And the shop fees that is now automatically added as a % of the bill. It's like tips on a party of 6 or more at a restaurant.

$200 if you're driving some balling ass car I suppose. Cars like Mazda's hover around the $50/$60 range, Acura closer to $100 for example.

I drive my PHEV in EV mode almost daily.
I have 5500KM, filled up with gas twice and only because the car is 300HP when in hybrid mode so I sometimes use gas for pleasure :D

I think the costs translate to about $4 for 70km. Probably cheaper if you live at a detached house because I have to pay the strata's energy management company $20/month to 'manage' the account so its more like 3$/70km. I dont drive a lot so that $20 can hit heavy sometimes. I drove a 2008 G35 which was $4 for 16KM or $17.5 for 70km. For me, PHEV/EV was a no brainer.

No maintenance yet but its pretty much like any ICE car but the oil change intervals are somewhat longer. Oil still does break down so toyota recommends following the chart but if you know you are not going to use ICE as much, there are steps you can take like using synthetic and adding fuel stabilizers.

But the biggest advantage for me so far is the OK sticker. Being single and living in Burnaby, I utilize the HOV lane and using the willingdon one saves me so much time. huge +++.

Also obviously this gas restriction made EV owners really gasm.

The battery is covered for 10 years so I dont really worry about the lifespan. I think 10 years is a acceptable lifespan. I drove my g35 for 13years and I felt 10 years was a good time to renew the car. I ended up putting 5k in repairs and maintenance in my last year of owning the g35 and only got 5k for trade in. Of course these costs could be cheaper if I lived in a detached home with my own garage but I dont.

Reason why I got PHEV is because we live in Vancouver. We have access to so many travel paths whether its Victoria, whistler, driving east or anywhere in the US. I dont road trip often but just the assurance alone is worth it. How many EV spots are always full? How many hours do I waste charging EV on the go? Might be a different story 5 years from now but as it stands, I dont think the infrastructure is there yet. Also the 300hp :D

Floor mat check is that switch on the floor that locks in the mat I think.

I think a lot of people are now in the meta of 'Gas is bad' but you cant ignore the convenience of gas.


I dont care what yall stonkers have to say but tesla is just not there yet in terms of being a global car company. my friend had to wait a couple month to get his windshield replaced because of their proprietary tech on the windshield among other things like quality control and fitment.

I can go a bit more on and on but hab to go to work.

^ thanks for the real life/experience comments. It sounds like if you choose a PHEV wisely, they can be the BEST of both worlds .. whereas some (who don't drive PHEV) just see the worst of both worlds!

Geeknerd, what vehicle?

I also think it’s kind of basic to compare the maintenance of a Rav 4 and an EV as obviously Toyota has their reliability built in. The best case study would be sampling a bunch of cars/SUV’s in that 45-70k range because I’m sure a Macan etc. is going to be substantially more expensive in maintenance costs

Is there some kind of average mileage you need to be hitting in order for EV to be worth it?

I know it makes sense if people drive a lot. But in my case, when I drove to work daily, I was averaging about 12k/year. My wife does 5k/year, lol.

Now I put my car in storage cause since I wfh, we can really just be a 1 car family now. I guess based on our lifestyle, I don't really see EV being worth it, ever. Unless fuel prices shoot up tremendously.

I'll take a stab in the dark and make a guess ... is it the Toyota RAV4 PHEV at 300hp?