Pick up truck thoughts?

[rymack]

So from what i can gather that discount is realistic if paying cash which is possible but maybe not the best long term bet. Ford doesn't offer discounts and good lease rates ...its one or the other.

As i was originally looking at leasing i ran the numbers that way. Based on the idea of a Electric flash vs a gas XLT/lariat ( hard to have real comparison as they have different mix of features across the various levels) the difference is about $100-$200 month less expensive for the electric vs the gas powered ( that difference will be bigger as gas gets more expensive ).

The annoying thing with the Lightning is the Lariat trim is something like 17 k above the Flash. From what i can tell it includes a upgrade stereo , sunroof , sliding back window , heated /ventilated seats. Seems a bit of a crazy jump to me.

I think all in all ( given that i would have to upgrade panel , would need to rent or borrow a different truck for long distance trailer trip , price difference wasn't crazy per month on a lease ) i might be better of with a gas .Suppose i should go and actually test drive both before I make a decision.

[Hehe]

Unless you are really doing a lot of RV-ing and towing, get a Lightning/Silverado EV/Cybertruck/Hummer/Rivian or whatever fancies you. Many of my friends who used to drive an ICE pickup for work/lifestyle or whatever reason have all switched to EV pickups or are just waiting for their lease to be up to switch to one.

The reason is simple: gas price.

Prices of pickups is nothing to think twice about, it is what it is. But if that pickup is going to be your main driver, the gas is going to be a major factor. Most my pickup friends used to spend easily $700+ every month in gas alone and there are many who spend 1000+ because they also need it for work as well. By going EV, even for a pig like Hummer, we are talking about $200 in hydro bill.

For RV-ing and towing in general, unless you are going into the middle of nowhere, EV trucks can do that without much of an issue other than more frequent stops than their ICE-counterpart since DC charger is a lot more abundant along major highways now. However, many of us who don't really do RV/towing all that often, we either just suck it up with the charging or rent an ICE truck if we really need that.

The saving is quite substantial.

[JDMDreams]

Any cyber truck deals yet, I heard they are 0% financing in the us

[Hondaracer]

Gas prices are high so you spend another 25% on the ev equivalent lol?

The F150 with the 5.0 gets better mileage than my G37. Which isn’t saying much but who gets into a truck and trips out about the fuel prices?

The tiny 2.7L eco boost costs about $200 to fill up, but you get between 850-1000 KM’s out of it.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by rymack

So from what i can gather that discount is realistic if paying cash which is possible but maybe not the best long term bet. Ford doesn't offer discounts and good lease rates ...its one or the other.

As i was originally looking at leasing i ran the numbers that way. Based on the idea of a Electric flash vs a gas XLT/lariat ( hard to have real comparison as they have different mix of features across the various levels) the difference is about $100-$200 month less expensive for the electric vs the gas powered ( that difference will be bigger as gas gets more expensive ).

Would be a really good idea to go drive one.
A few things that stood out:

- When I had boots on, 1 pedal driving is amazing.
- Drives smaller than Lexus RX because of low COG and way smother over bumpers with IRS
- Very response and quiet, no turbo lag, feels better than 2500 Diesel

Some others
- Stays warm/cold while running errands because u can keep the AC and heat going. Cabin is warm in the morning for gf.
- Frunk power is awesome for fresh towels, cold drinks, and tool boxes (built in load floor is a divider)

Charging wise, I really don't think you need a panel upgrade.
You can...

1) Cheapest - $20, no panel or breaker change.
Convert household 2 plug 5-15 to 1 plug 5-20.
Instead of 1.3kw you'd get 1.8kw ... 86km or 16% a night.

2) Install a manual power split device that enables you to use hot tub/dryer OR Level 2 charger.
Dryer is 240V 30A so power split gets you 7.2kW, 65% charge a night.

3) Do an automatic power split charger (Emporia) or device (DCC9, BlackBox EMS) and sub panel to reduce or turn off charging when hot tub/dryer is enabled.
You could get the full 48A, full charge each night.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Gas prices are high so you spend another 25% on the ev equivalent lol?

The F150 with the 5.0 gets better mileage than my G37. Which isn’t saying much but who gets into a truck and trips out about the fuel prices?

The tiny 2.7L eco boost costs about $200 to fill up, but you get between 850-1000 KM’s out of it.

What spec are you running?
4x4? Crew Cab? 6.5' bed?

Even on a brand new 10 speed 5.0, 6.5' Crew Cab on highway tires, I get 17L city, 11L highway.
6 speed, 8' bed, max payload pack gets 23L city, 14L highway.

[rymack]

As far as I can tell I’d spend 300-400 more a month on fuel for gas vs electric ( most of my driving is highway albeit partially during gridlock). The lease for the electric is a couple hundred more than the gas . So it isn’t full savings . I guess I should enquire about cost difference in insurance and take maintenance into consideration as well.

And again the models are different enough electric vs gas so it’s not a straight across comparison. From what I can tell I can get a lariat gas that would be similar to a flash electric so it’s not straightforward.

As for the power I’ve had a electrician in and we are already overloaded from when we bought the place so they told me they really shouldn’t even be working on the panel as it requires a upgrade. Which as I said we are planning on but maybe not right away.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by rymack

As far as I can tell I’d spend 300-400 more a month on fuel for gas vs electric ( most of my driving is highway albeit partially during gridlock). The lease for the electric is a couple hundred more than the gas . So it isn’t full savings . I guess I should enquire about cost difference in insurance and take maintenance into consideration as well.

And again the models are different enough electric vs gas so it’s not a straight across comparison. From what I can tell I can get a lariat gas that would be similar to a flash electric so it’s not straightforward.

As for the power I’ve had a electrician in and we are already overloaded from when we bought the place so they told me they really shouldn’t even be working on the panel as it requires a upgrade. Which as I said we are planning on but maybe not right away.

Personally I think in a crazy work/home day, getting into a warm truck in the AM/after work and not being bothered by bumpy ride/gas engine is good enough reason to deal with the tradeoffs in my circumstance.

That’s tough for you though - I wouldn’t do it in City of Vancouver since fast chargers are really limited.

City of Richmond/Surrey/Coquitlam/Burnaby is ok with Superchargers where the groceries are. At home, most you can do without panel upgrade is 5-20 120V, which still gives 80km overnight.

Insurance wise we didn’t buy the replacement cost - there aren’t any aftermarket parts for lightning body panels and the EV incentive for business should continue.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Gas prices are high so you spend another 25% on the ev equivalent lol?

The F150 with the 5.0 gets better mileage than my G37. Which isn’t saying much but who gets into a truck and trips out about the fuel prices?

The tiny 2.7L eco boost costs about $200 to fill up, but you get between 850-1000 KM’s out of it.

F150 averages 13L/100km in a city/hwy mix for daily drive. Say 5yr/100,000km, that's roughly $22,000 in gas alone assuming $1.65/L price. Lightning, OTOH, it's about 350w per km or 35kw/100km or about $3500 in hydro bill if you charge it at night.

This is before any EV rebates or whatever incentive.

Then comes the maintenance. Lightning requires almost 0 maintenance up to 100k other than some cabin filters. A quick search on Google shows roughly $12,000 for maintenance up to 100k for ICE F150 and about $2000 for Lightning based on factory suggested program.

The gas saving alone can justify the difference in price, or at the bare minimum, break even between ICE and EV for up to 100k. Then the difference just widen from there on.

If you factor all cost of ownership, the EV version would always come out ahead. I have said it before and I'd say it again, if buying new car is the goal, buying ICE is actually the luxury version as the cost over the years is so much more.

The only possible scenario where ICE yields better saving is if you buy a super cheap beater and drive it to the ground. At new vs. new scenario, EV would always cost less to run.

[Hondaracer]

Lightning has an 8 year, 100,000km warranty on the battery. Once you’re out of warranty it’s currently a 32k replacement.

The truck is scrap at that point

[AstulzerRZD]

It’s actually 160k km and Ford’s built it in a way that you can replace individual cells.

The gassers have some big ticket items too:
- 10 speeds: CDF drum better but valve body still an issue.
- Wet oil belts in latest 2.7 and 5.0: $4-5k labour cost at 160k km.
- 3.5 and 5.0 cam phasers: better but not bulletproof.

I have both so no real bias either way, just pros and cons.
At least on the EV you’re covered till 160k.

[noclue]

If you buy a truck for work or daily driving around town in which you do consider the running cost of an EV truck but if it's for pleasure use you want the freedom of a gas truck. Towing? Off-roading up a logging trail? Carrying extra jerry cans in the bed to increase range? Not having to plan precise stops to charge and hoping the charger is working? A F150 with the 136L tank I can drive from Vancouver to northern California in one shot, and with one 10min fill at a gas station anywhere along I5 I can get to San Fransisco by nighttime.

Plus he said his driving is mostly highway so the gas savings is negated somewhat.

[rymack]

Originally Posted by Hehe

F150 averages 13L/100km in a city/hwy mix for daily drive. Say 5yr/100,000km, that's roughly $22,000 in gas alone assuming $1.65/L price. Lightning, OTOH, it's about 350w per km or 35kw/100km or about $3500 in hydro bill if you charge it at night.

This is before any EV rebates or whatever incentive.

Then comes the maintenance. Lightning requires almost 0 maintenance up to 100k other than some cabin filters. A quick search on Google shows roughly $12,000 for maintenance up to 100k for ICE F150 and about $2000 for Lightning based on factory suggested program.

The gas saving alone can justify the difference in price, or at the bare minimum, break even between ICE and EV for up to 100k. Then the difference just widen from there on.

If you factor all cost of ownership, the EV version would always come out ahead. I have said it before and I'd say it again, if buying new car is the goal, buying ICE is actually the luxury version as the cost over the years is so much more.

The only possible scenario where ICE yields better saving is if you buy a super cheap beater and drive it to the ground. At new vs. new scenario, EV would always cost less to run.

That all makes sense.I'm probably looking at a 3-4 year lease so those longer term savings wouldn't really apply.

I think its going to come down to trim level ( the flash isn't trimmed out as nice as a equivalent gas version or another way to say it is you got to pay a bunch more to get the same trim and that will eat any savings ) , Cost of making charging doable at home , am i willing to rent a pickup for any potential long trips in the trailer etc ,

Anyway i'm gonna swing by my local ford dealership today to see if i can get a sense of what makes more...sense.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by noclue

If you buy a truck for work or daily driving around town in which you do consider the running cost of an EV truck but if it's for pleasure use you want the freedom of a gas truck. Towing? Off-roading up a logging trail? Carrying extra jerry cans in the bed to increase range? Not having to plan precise stops to charge and hoping the charger is working? A F150 with the 136L tank I can drive from Vancouver to northern California in one shot, and with one 10min fill at a gas station anywhere along I5 I can get to San Fransisco by nighttime.

Plus he said his driving is mostly highway so the gas savings is negated somewhat.

Not having to plan stops is pretty big. It really isn’t about charging since Google/Apple maps does this but it’s more about the hassle of trying to figure out whether there’s good food/washroom at the charging.

Highway traffic is actually the best fuel economy you'll get in EV (40-80kmh).
Even if you consume 2X the electricity, the cost per KM is so low that it's immaterial.

Lightning Suburban driving: 3c/km
Lightning Highway towing: 9c/km

Gas City driving (17L): 29c/km
Gas Towing (30L): 51c/km

[JDMDreams]

How much are cats when crack heads cut them out

[Badhobz]

wowowowo even the base model, 2 door, fugly as hell steel wheels one is 52k!! fuck that. everything sucks dick nowadays. It used to be this fugly base truck was under 40k just a few years ago!

[AstulzerRZD]

The biggest travesty is an XLT 4x4 5.5' Super Crew - most common spec is $67k WTF??!?!

Want adaptive cruise, dimming mirrors, heated seats, power/memory seat? 74k
Want 360 camera, blue cruise, plastic leather? 82k
Want in bed power outlets >> add another 5-7k.

Compare to..
Lightning XLT: heated seats, 360 camera, in bed power output > 65k (14k discount like for like)
Lightning Flash: bluecruise, plastic leather > 70k (5k discount)

Add 5k incentive, huge financing incentive (15k at Island Ford) and 20-40c in fuel saved per km...
A Flash at 140k km or so is a completely free truck and you still have some battery warranty left.

[AstulzerRZD]

Originally Posted by rymack

Anyway i'm gonna swing by my local ford dealership today to see if i can get a sense of what makes more...sense.

This is what helped us pick between Maverick / F150 5.0 / F250 6.7 / Lightning for new fleet trucks. They even let us hook up trailer.

[noclue]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

wowowowo even the base model, 2 door, fugly as hell steel wheels one is 52k!! fuck that. everything sucks dick nowadays. It used to be this fugly base truck was under 40k just a few years ago!

We got a fully loaded platinum in 2018 for 60k... truck inflation is outta control. Aren't trucks posed to be for the average joe?

[JDMDreams]

Aren't trucks posed to be for the average juan?

Fixed

[rymack]

Just took the electric Flash for a rip. Fairly impressive tbh . Hate the fake leather. For whatever reason I really prefer a moon roof but can’t justify the price in the electric .

The gas powered lariat is prob the sweet spot for trim for my preferences just isn’t worth the extra money ( gas etc)

[AstulzerRZD]

Don't the new F150s continue to have moon roof leaks?
We used to accept Lariat but don't any more even if a dealer is offering us a banging deal.

[rymack]

Hmm interesting . In this day and age not something I’d expect to be a issue

[AstulzerRZD]

Ford and Audi continue to suffer hella moonroof leak - is why new B10 A5 no longer has a sliding pano roof. VW/Audi bought back an insane amount of pano roof car.... and every F150 we continue to try with moonroof leaks.

[Manic!]

Just buy a Honda Ridgeline.