New BC Place roof can't close in the rain [Archive]

Great68

11-01-2010, 03:49 PM

The new, $500-million retractable roof at BC Place stadium won't be able to close when it's raining or there are high winds, officials said Monday.

The retractable roof, which seemed an ideal fit for the West Coast's rainy and quick-changing weather, can't actually be closed while it's raining because of an engineering problem.

As the roof closes, the fabric creates folds that will become gathered in the centre of the stadium. Officials say the weight the water would create in the folds could potentially create a tear in the roof.

"You can't have those folds collect water, especially with the size of the roof," BC Place Stadium General Manager Howard Crosley told reporters at a press conference Monday.

Crosley said the problem won't affect fans, whose seats will be permanently protected by the outside portion of the stadium at all times.

"The only thing that will be affected is the players on the field. And they're used to playing in open air stadiums, so that shouldn't be a big problem," he said.

Crosley said BC Place doesn't anticipate having to cancel any sporting games because of weather. He added that the decision whether the roof will be open or closed during games will be made far in advance.

The roof, which will be the world's largest cable-supported roof in the world, takes about 20 minutes to fully open or close.

Stadium officials say they chose to install a retractable roof because of the original design of the building, saying its design would not support a metal retractable roof like the one at Toronto's Rogers Centre.

"All of the structure that exists wasn't set up to handle the very significant weight of a metal retractable roof. This technology was sourced through engineers that have worked with our building before," Crosley said.

Crosley admitted a fixed roof would have cost less money, but says the new retractable roof will enhance the ability to market the venue for special events.

Since 1983, BC Place has averaged more than 200 event-days a year, generating $58 million annually. The government says the new retractable roof will add an additional 41 event days per year.

It is scheduled for completion by summer 2011, in time for the Grey Cup and for the Vancouver Whitecaps' first season as a Major League Soccer franchise.

BC Place is run by the BC Pavilion Corporation, which is owned by the provincial government.

Does anyone else think the engineers who designed the roof should be on the hook for fixing this? The roof's not built yet, why can't they come up with a better design? I mean shit, this is only vancouver where it rains 300 days a year.

murd0c

11-01-2010, 04:01 PM

so whats the point of the roof being retractable if you cant close it in the rain????

Greenstoner

11-01-2010, 04:02 PM

such a fail and waste of money

flagella

11-01-2010, 04:04 PM

sad

2 n r

11-01-2010, 04:07 PM

thats ridiculous.. if i paid for a roof with that price tag it better suck my dick let alone retract rain or shine

JSS

11-01-2010, 04:07 PM

This should have been disclosed before construction even began.

FN-2199

11-01-2010, 04:07 PM

Unbelievable. Those engineers didn't even factor in the rain? I guess once it's completed, it'll stay closed for a long, long time.

sonick

11-01-2010, 04:08 PM

lolollololololololloll

Not really racist!

11-01-2010, 04:11 PM

500 million dollar roof that only retracts depending on weather

:facepalm:

Teriyaki

11-01-2010, 04:13 PM

So only retract it when skies are warm and brimming with sunshine... wait WAT?

RiceIntegraRS

11-01-2010, 04:15 PM

i guess it will only open and close once a year i guess....... i wonder how much a regular roof would of cost

twitchyzero

11-01-2010, 04:16 PM

LOL
i hope this will be on national tv...so other canadians will know how efficiently our provincial gov't runs.

BC Gov't and translink with their 80k richmond bus stops = fail.

dark0821

11-01-2010, 04:27 PM

wait.. so if they had it open.. but the rain starts..and goes on for 30days.. they are just going to have the rood open for those 30 days? =.=

shit son..

Hondaracer

11-01-2010, 04:44 PM

jasonturbo

11-01-2010, 04:48 PM

This is only one of many examples.... of engineering having failed to identify all the variables related to whatever the practice of engineering is being applied to.

This sort of thing happens rather frequently, and to be fair, you have to consider so much when taking a project like this on, that something major becomes easy to overlook when focusing so much on all the small details. Though engingeering firms always have multiple levels revisions and squad checks to try and ensure something like this doesnt happen... too bad many engineers cant seem to think in simple terms, anything their calculator cant tell them musnt be important anyways lol.

Here's a side story,... something of the same nature...

2 years ago I was quality manger for Ledcor on the Transcanada Keystone pipeline project... http://www.transcanada.com/keystone.html

A portion of this project, involved the conversion of an existing 34" steel pipeline which ran across Sask... a pipeline which for 50 years handled natural gas transmission... and natural gas lines tend to corrode due to water content and condensate.

So, this project was planned in 2000, and the line was to be commisioned in the fall of 2009... so fast forward to april 2009. I'm sitting at my desk and the sr. inspector from TransCanada comes into my office and tells me that shit is hitting the fan over at TransCanada... and here's why!

So imagine, you and a group of engineers, decide to build this new pipeline, and use a rather large portion of existing pipeline to save some money... you would think... that someone would have decided to do some integrity testing, corrosion surveys, etc of the existing pipeline to verify its condition and to make sure it's worth investing the money into doing the associated conversion work of making a pipeline built for gas transmission, work for crude oil.

Well, turns out... nobody did! So April 2009, Transcanada decides to send a "smart pig" through the line which will give them an idea what condition the line is in... and the results were... terrible! The line is 50 years old, there is over 1200 individual locations across Sask. that are in such poor condition, they need to be excavated and have sections of pipe installed.... like a giant band aid project.

So now the cost of the project explodes, as they are required to have the line operational by october and the only way to meet that deadline is to spend a lot of money on these "dig up's"... hahaha

So basically, how is a room full of people with degree's stupid enough to overlook something which seems so obvious... Would you use a 50 year old rad hose on your new car? Even if you did,... you would probably have a look at the hose to make sure it wasnt fucked.. before you put it on... this isnt the flawed application of engineering, so much as a lack of common sense.

But hey, hindsight is 20/20 hahaha.

sunny_j

11-01-2010, 04:57 PM

lol so much fail

jtanner_

11-01-2010, 05:00 PM

I honestly laughed when I read that... what a waste of money

rsx

11-01-2010, 05:12 PM

Wow, fucking incredible.

!e.lo_

11-01-2010, 05:18 PM

wow... way to overlook a factor like coastal weather!

Remember when it snowed and the marshmallow roof had buildup issues?

seakrait

11-01-2010, 05:21 PM

FAIL.

not to mention it'll be fugly. all those crane-like structures and riggings will stay and it'll look like it's perpetually under construction.

http://www.6717000.com/admin/uploads/article/moreimages/5807.jpg

carisear

11-01-2010, 05:22 PM

so can it even be closed when its raining? or never closed due to rain? lol thats quite the oversight..

At least the Government made the right decision in not letting an independent billionaire build a water front stadium with his own money in skid's ville :troll:

man that STILL pisses me off. Greg kerfoot is about as PERFECT an owner as you could possibly have, and the city shits all over him.

Rich Sandor

11-01-2010, 05:27 PM

I liked the old roof better.

Kim Jong Un

11-01-2010, 05:27 PM

:facepalm:

shenmecar

11-01-2010, 06:08 PM

jesus, just step up the motor so it'll close faster than the rain can gather.

i suggest them using a series of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9-yw6EgCQ

Great68

11-01-2010, 06:09 PM

Since 1983, BC Place has averaged more than 200 event-days a year, generating $58 million annually. The government says the new retractable roof will add an additional 41 event days per year.

So does that factor in the number of event days that will no longer happen because the facility no longer has a fully closed roof?

boss604

11-01-2010, 06:49 PM

lol engineering FAIL

The_AK

11-01-2010, 06:50 PM

they should build a roof over the roof so in case it rains they're able to close it

:troll:

seakrait

11-01-2010, 06:56 PM

that damn gordon campbell i tells ya. :(

So does that factor in the number of event days that will no longer happen because the facility no longer has a fully closed roof?

what confuses me is that their logic implies that there are events that can only be held in an open stadium that can't be held in a totally covered stadium. :rolleyes: someone please educate me.

MDMA

11-01-2010, 08:10 PM

Someone post double facepalm :facepalm:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

StylinRed

11-01-2010, 08:16 PM

you would think this is something they could remedy before everything gets put in place

shouldnt someone be held accountable -_-

Nintensity

11-01-2010, 08:21 PM

HAHA This reminds me like the problem that San Francisco was facing a while back, where people could easily bypass the ticket gates with just a simple wave of the hand.

oh well, the spectators can be covered in the rain, lets just make the players wet just because they're used to practicing in the rain...... psh.

vafanculo

11-01-2010, 08:48 PM

Hope it doesn't self destruct during snowy season
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

whitev70r

11-01-2010, 08:57 PM

Epic ... failure.
Add BC Stadium Roof to: Fastcat, Olympic Village, Vancouver Convention Center.

c_loke

11-01-2010, 08:57 PM

whoever sold them the roof musta' been a damn good salesman.

FN-2199

11-01-2010, 09:00 PM

whoever sold them the roof musta' been a damn good salesman.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZjzsnPhnw&feature=related

:troll:

Mancini

11-01-2010, 09:08 PM

"Stadium officials say they chose to install a retractable roof because of the original design of the building, saying its design would not support a metal retractable roof..."

What?

dachinesedude

11-01-2010, 09:14 PM

Either make one that closes or have no roof at all, wat the fuck are we gonna do with a "close only under perfect circumstances" roof

Lomac

11-01-2010, 09:20 PM

"Stadium officials say they chose to install a retractable roof because of the original design of the building, saying its design would not support a metal retractable roof..."

What?

Basic engineering. The side of the stadium wasn't built with the intention of having a giant steel roof placed on top. It would require major renovations for it to work, otherwise the structure would simply collapse under the weight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_load

MelonBoy

11-01-2010, 10:34 PM

Epic ... failure.
Add BC Stadium Roof to: Fastcat, Olympic Village, Vancouver Convention Center.

Whats wrong with the Vancouver Convention Center?...

seakrait

11-01-2010, 11:05 PM

Either make one that closes or have no roof at all, wat the fuck are we gonna do with a "close only under perfect circumstances" roof

or make one that's permanently closed. no issues. there we go.

and to be clear, the roof DOES close. just not when they have it open and THEN it starts to rain. or if the wind picks up suddenly.

ie: they have to be watching the weather closely all the time when the roof is open and close it in advance of any rain/wind.

ilvtofu

11-01-2010, 11:33 PM

they should build a roof over the roof so in case it rains they're able to close it

:troll:

LOL that's what I was thinking, either that or a Massive tarp

impulseX

11-02-2010, 12:10 AM

I liked the old roof better.

Ya, the 'pineapple bun'.

AVS_Racing

11-02-2010, 12:10 AM

LOL y am i not surprised about this

goo3

11-02-2010, 12:24 AM

Stadium staff will monitor weather reports to determine whether to close or open the roof, added Crosley. The roof can be opened or closed in 20 minutes multiple times through a day.

The BC Place general manager said the retractable roof's fabric has folds that would collect water if it was opened or closed in the rain.

"You can't have those folds collect water," Crosley said, adding that the weight of the water could cause a tear in the fabric, called Tenara.

The stadium's revamp, the largest retrofit of its kind in the world, is scheduled to be completed next September, in plenty of time for the 2011 Grey Cup.

The inability to adjust the roof in the rain has never been a secret, Crosley said. The architects and engineers involved in the stadium revamp always knew the roof couldn't be opened or closed in the rain.

But questions from the media about the roof's operation during a rainstorm "never came up before," he added.

The roof also cannot be opened or closed in winds of 60 kilometres an hour or more.

The roof's limitations in wet weather are a result of the building's structure, which forced architects to choose a fabric rather than metal retractable roof.

The stadium "wasn't set up to handle the very significant weight of a metal retractable roof of the type you see in other stadiums," Crosley said.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Place+retractable+roof+close+open+rain/3760245/story.html#ixzz146tfhdW1

noots

11-02-2010, 01:05 AM

It seems like the media is making it out to be a lot worst than it really is. You would think that they would check the weather forecasts and close/open the roof accordingly. It's not like they would leave the roof open when it's expected to rain later.

It would be a problem when there's some sudden, freak rain storm and the roof is open. Also IIRC, the roof would only be open during MLS or CFL games and the fans will be covered regardless.

hotjoint

11-02-2010, 07:48 AM

wow such fail

Jsunu

11-02-2010, 08:02 AM

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Place+retractable+roof+close+open+rain/3760245/story.html#ixzz146tfhdW1

Please for the love of god people read this. It is not so much engineering fail as it was as a result of building limitations since they had to construct on an existing structure, hence the cloth roof. Constructing a metal roof would've required building a entirely new stadium and hence more $$$$$. They just had to make the most cost effective decision and built on an existing structure.

Basically if a freak rainstorm just happens to down pour, it will just make the players wet. They just have to make sure and look at the weather conditions before they retract or open the roof. It really is a non-issue.

This scenario, albeit an improbable one, emerged Monday with confirmation from BC Place general manager Howard Crosley that the stadium's new $458-million retractable roof will not be able to open or close in the rain.

"If a rainstorm catches us by surprise," Crosley said, the football Lions and the soccer Whitecaps will get wet.

Expresso

11-02-2010, 08:04 AM

Why is this a big deal? The cost to do a roof everyone wants will probably double the price of construction. So it can only stay open during the summer, at least it can open. And if it rains the only people that get wet are the players, the seats always remain covered. I don't see the big deal, chances are it will only stay open during the summer. BC Place desperately needed a reno, I'm not going to complain.

I was disappointed at first, but got over it pretty quick.

InvisibleSoul

11-02-2010, 08:16 AM

"Stadium officials say they chose to install a retractable roof because of the original design of the building, saying its design would not support a metal retractable roof..."

What?
What's the problem? The retractable roof isn't metal.

It isn't that big of a deal... they just have to close it well in advance if the weather report calls for heavy rain for sports events, or if the weather report calls for any rain for other events like the auto show...

Tapioca

11-02-2010, 08:51 AM

The media is making a big deal about it because they're trying to politicize the project.

But, I do feel sorry for the people who live in buildings near the stadium. Their views of the southwest have been severely reduced as a result of the support beams.

b0unce. [?]

11-02-2010, 09:10 AM

Ya, the 'pineapple bun'.

my dad used to call bc place "the giant boh lo bao" ahaha

CP.AR

11-02-2010, 04:10 PM

lolwut

seakrait

11-02-2010, 05:04 PM

Please for the love of god people read this. It is not so much engineering fail as it was as a result of building limitations since they had to construct on an existing structure, hence the cloth roof. Constructing a metal roof would've required building a entirely new stadium and hence more $$$$$. They just had to make the most cost effective decision and built on an existing structure.

Basically if a freak rainstorm just happens to down pour, it will just make the players wet. They just have to make sure and look at the weather conditions before they retract or open the roof. It really is a non-issue.

but the question still remains: why was a retractable roof necessary? what events could they NOT have held with a closed roof?

or is this an issue akin to choosing a convertible car because it's figuratively cooler?

or were there physical limitations for building a closed roof as well?

Great68

11-02-2010, 05:29 PM

or is this an issue akin to choosing a convertible car because it's figuratively cooler?

Ding Ding Ding!

They had 1/2 a billion burning a hole in their pocket and had to spend it on something.

Funny, BC place can get a 500 million dollar roof but Victoria can't get 50 million to replace a nearly condemned rusting to shit 100 year old bridge that feeds into the downtown core. Fuck you very much BC Liberals!

winson604

11-02-2010, 06:07 PM

I don't think this is a big deal personally. Like other cities with retractable roofs they plan ahead as well. Even the Mariners and Bluejays rarely run into a situation where they need to suddenly close the roof because they plan ahead and close it just in case anyways. Meh stupid media.

Hondaracer

11-02-2010, 06:07 PM

no one cares about island people :P :troll:

Great68

11-02-2010, 06:15 PM

Here's an interesting tidbit. Qwest Field in Seattle was $430 million, for a BRAND NEW stadium with a full retracting metal roof...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Aerial_of_Qwest_Field_and_downtown_skyline%2C_2002 .jpg/800px-Aerial_of_Qwest_Field_and_downtown_skyline%2C_2002 .jpg

Why the hell is it costing us $500 million for just a roof? A fabric one at that?

Hondaracer

11-02-2010, 06:19 PM

because it's less expensive to build something from the ground up than Demolish an existing structure, engineer the new structure, and build ontop of a pre existing frame?

Cowboys stadium cost 1 billion btw, how old is Qwest field now? 10 years at least?

seakrait

11-02-2010, 06:30 PM

i still think they could have built a solid roof... or i suppose a fabric one for weight savings for much cheaper if it didn't have to be retractable.

Great68

11-02-2010, 06:36 PM

because it's less expensive to build something from the ground up than Demolish an existing structure, engineer the new structure, and build ontop of a pre existing frame?

Uhhh, they built Qwest Field over the old Kingdome.

JSS

11-02-2010, 06:46 PM

Here's an interesting tidbit. Qwest Field in Seattle was $430 million, for a BRAND NEW stadium with a full retracting metal roof...

Why the hell is it costing us $500 million for just a roof? A fabric one at that?

qwest field does not have a retractable roof.

CanadaGoose

11-02-2010, 06:55 PM

WTF

For $500 million they could've built a goddamn 12 feet thick concrete blastproof roof that would retract in the middle of a fucking nuclear strike, let alone a rainy day. :facepalm:

Hondaracer

11-02-2010, 07:08 PM

Uhhh, they built Qwest Field over the old Kingdome.

After the king dome was demolished.

Pretty sure the demolishion, cleanup, and rebuild of qwest totalled more than 500
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Great68

11-02-2010, 07:46 PM

qwest field does not have a retractable roof.

My bad I was thinking of safeco (Which cost 517mil by the way)

Great68

11-02-2010, 07:49 PM

After the king dome was demolished.

Pretty sure the demolishion, cleanup, and rebuild of qwest totalled more than 500
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Even if demolition costs brought the total over 500mil, they got an entire NEW stadium. We're getting a fabric roof with a design flaw. We're getting a shitty deal.

Hondaracer

11-02-2010, 08:09 PM

well yea, i'm pretty sure for the value Jerry jones got more for his 1 billion then we did for the 500 mill

hal0g0dv2

11-02-2010, 08:29 PM

should of built a birds nest

winson604

11-02-2010, 08:51 PM

JSS

11-02-2010, 09:00 PM

One has to keep in mind that the Cowboys stadium is in the middle of no where while BC Place is in a prime location. I think that should be factored in a bit here personally. Would I have preferred tearing Bc Place down, playing at Empire for a couple few years instead? Sure, but this is what we got and I'm sure it will be dope.

i think a majority of the public would have rather opted for a new stadium if cost was gonna be similar to a new roof... but im sure the fact that they wanted to host the 2011 grey cup here had something to do with a quick time frame for construction so they opted to go the current route.

im still puzzled as to why this whole "can only close at certain times" fiasco was not disclosed before any building permits were issued.

one of two things happened here...

whoever designed the roof knew and never said anything...

or

the government knew about it from the beginning but opted to go ahead with it and only disclose it to the public once construction was past the point of no return.

i find it ironic that construction is this far along and we were just told about it now.

Expresso

11-02-2010, 09:30 PM

The government probably opted for it because it was the cheaper option, and didnt know everyone would make big stink about it.

If you were to build a brand new stadium in the middle of downtown with todays pricing, I'm pretty sure it would be close to what the Dallas Cowboys paid.

winson604

11-02-2010, 09:41 PM

i think a majority of the public would have rather opted for a new stadium if cost was gonna be similar to a new roof... but im sure the fact that they wanted to host the 2011 grey cup here had something to do with a quick time frame for construction so they opted to go the current route.

im still puzzled as to why this whole "can only close at certain times" fiasco was not disclosed before any building permits were issued.

one of two things happened here...

whoever designed the roof knew and never said anything...

or

the government knew about it from the beginning but opted to go ahead with it and only disclose it to the public once construction was past the point of no return.

i find it ironic that construction is this far along and we were just told about it now.

My point is I don't believe it would ha been close to the price of the new roof at all. Oh wells too late now =\

Great68

11-02-2010, 09:52 PM

If you were to build a brand new stadium in the middle of downtown with todays pricing, I'm pretty sure it would be close to what the Dallas Cowboys paid.

The land is already paid for. Also, Cowboy stadium seats 110,000 (Compared to the 55,000 of BC place). That's a huge a factor for how much that stadium cost. We couldn't possibly support a 110,000 seat stadium in Vancouver.

BMW135i

11-02-2010, 11:23 PM

What a waste of $$. Epic fail

bikerx

11-03-2010, 12:59 AM

.. soo if it rains.. and the water collects inside they have to wait a couple of days for all the rain to evaporate? ....

Kamui712

11-03-2010, 01:19 AM

Lol I have to say... 1st two pages of this thread are a great example of people just going along in order to belong.

Page 1:
someone posts the news article stating the stadium has engineering problems.

The responses:

"OMG WTFBBQ LOL enginering FAIL FAIL FAIL bwahaha waste of money!!!"

---------------------------------

Page 2:
someone posts an article that says "this issue has been known for awhile" and someone says it's being blown out of proportion"

the responses now become:

"yea jeez! I don't know why everyone's complaining, this was a better decsion!! people stop blowing it out of proportion."

-----------------------------

Page 3:
beginning of some dialogue/debate instead of "he said, she said" crap.

----------------------------

stop jumping on the bandwagon and think for yourselves, you only look like an ass when you agree just to agree.

/end

edit: this is basically how the first 2 pages of the thread play out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMcJTSQ-hk8

DaJo

11-03-2010, 01:26 AM

Waste of money, they should fire the engineer who did this. I was really excited to see it completed but now this... -sigh-

goo3

11-03-2010, 02:17 AM

edit: this is basically how the first 2 pages of the thread play out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMcJTSQ-hk8

We get the politicians we deserve because the ones we vote for are the ones who either tell us what we want to hear or don't just don't tell us hoping we don't find out. How can you blame them if that's how the game is won?

We might want a 2002 Qwest for $450M, but I don't think that's gonna happen in 2010. Construction price index:

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/econ144e-eng.htm

I don't know how much a new one would cost - maybe $600M, $700M, or $800M. How about we do some hw and find out before going "it's so simple, why don't those idiots just do this" ?

Hondaracer

11-03-2010, 06:29 AM

Waste of money, they should fire the engineer who did this. I was really excited to see it completed but now this... -sigh-

So becuase somthing happened that doesn't effect the look or functionality of it, now your no longer excited? :/
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Liquid_o2

11-03-2010, 10:18 AM

The amount of stupidity in this thread is unbelievable for the most part.

People are acting like the builders, the engineers and the government all learned of this right now, when in fact they knew about this issue before construction began. It is only NOW, that the media has picked up on this issue, and since construction has already began, they have decided to blow it up and make it seem that nobody knew about it.

This roof is modeled after Commerzbank-Arena in Frankfurt. If you go to its Wikipedia page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerzbank-Arena there is an entire section devoted to its roof, and its positives and negatives. I read up on this when the roof was first announced, and if people weren't sheep and actually did 5 minutes of their own research, instead of looking towards the media for all their information, they too would have known about this issue long ago.