Open letter to BlackBerry bosses [Archive]

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versep

06-30-2011, 09:59 PM

"Open letter to BlackBerry bosses: Senior RIM exec tells all as company crumbles around him"

http://www-bgr-com.vimg.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/crossro-ads110630144819.jpg

To the RIM Senior Management Team:

I have lost confidence.

While I hide it at work, my passion has been sapped. I know I am not alone — the sentiment is widespread and it includes people within your own teams.

Mike and Jim, please take the time to really absorb and digest the content of this letter because it reflects the feeling across a huge percentage of your employee base. You have many smart employees, many that have great ideas for the future, but unfortunately the culture at RIM does not allow us to speak openly without having to worry about the career-limiting effects.

Before I get into the meat of the matter, I will say I am not part of a large group of bitter employees wishing to embarrass us. Rather, I believe these points need to be heard and I desperately want RIM to regain its position as a successful industry leader. Our carriers, distributors, alliance partners, enterprise customers, and our loyal end users all want the same thing… for BlackBerry to once again be leading the pack.

We are in the middle of major “transition” and things have never been more chaotic. Almost every project is falling further and further behind schedule at a time when we absolutely must deliver great, solid products on time. We urge you to make bold decisions about our organisational structure, about our culture and most importantly our products.

While we anxiously wait to see the details of the streamlining plan, here are some suggestions:

1) Focus on the End User experience

Let’s obsess about what is best for the end user. We often make product decisions based on strategic alignment, partner requests or even legal advice — the end user doesn’t care. We simply have to admit that Apple is nailing this and it is one of the reasons they have people lining up overnight at stores around the world, and products sold out for months. These people aren’t hypnotized zombies, they simply love beautifully designed products that are user centric and work how they are supposed to work. Android has a major weakness — it will always lack the simplicity and elegance that comes with end-to-end device software, middleware and hardware control. We really have a great opportunity to build something new and “uniquely BlackBerry” with the QNX platform.

Let’s start an internal innovation revival with teams focused on what users will love instead of chasing “feature parity” and feature differentiation for no good reason (Adobe Flash being a major example). When was the last time we pushed out a significant new experience or feature that wasn’t already on other platforms?

Rather than constantly mocking iPhone and Android, we should encourage key decision makers across the board to use these products as their primary device for a week or so at a time — yes, on Exchange! This way we can understand why our users are switching and get inspiration as to how we can build our next-gen products even better! It’s incomprehensible that our top software engineers and executives aren’t using or deeply familiar with our competitor’s products.

2) Recruit Senior SW Leaders & enable decision-making

I’m going to say what everyone is thinking… We need some heavy hitters at RIM when it comes to software management. Teams still aren’t talking together properly, no one is making or can make critical decisions, all the while everyone is working crazy hours and still far behind. We are demotivated. Just look at who our major competitors are: Apple, Google & Microsoft. These are three of the biggest and most talented software companies on the planet. Then take a look at our software leadership teams in terms of what they have delivered and their past experience prior to RIM… It says everything.

3) Cut projects to the bone.

There is a serious need to consolidate our focus to just a handful of projects. Period.

We need to be disciplined here. We can’t afford any more initiatives based on carrier requests to squeeze out slightly more volume. Again, back to point #1, focus on the end users. They are the ones making both consumer & enterprise purchase decisions.

Strategy is often in the things you decide not to do.

On that note, we simply must stop shipping incomplete products that aren’t ready for the end user. It is hurting our brand tremendously. It takes guts to not allow a product to launch that may be 90% ready with a quarter end in sight, but it will pay off in the long term.

Look at Apple in 1997 for tips here. I really want you to watch this video because it has never been more relevant. It is our friend Steve Jobs in 97 and it may as well be you speaking to RIM employees and partners today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LEXae1j6EY

4) Developers, not Carriers can now make or break us

We urgently need to invest like we never have before in becoming developer friendly. The return will be worth every cent. There is no polite way to say this, but it’s true — BlackBerry smartphone apps suck. Even PlayBook, with all its glorious power, looks like a Fisher Price toy with its Adobe AIR/Flash apps.

Developing for BlackBerry is painful, and despite what you’ve been told, things haven’t really changed that much since Jamie Murai’s letter. Our SDK / development platform is like a rundown 1990′s Ford Explorer. Then there’s Apple, which has a shiny new BMW M3… just such a pleasure to drive. Developers want and need quality tools.

If we create great tools, we will see great work. Offer shit tools and we shouldn’t be surprised when we see shit apps.

The truth is, no one in RIM dares to tell management how bad our tools still are. Even our closest dev partners do their best to say it politely, but they will never bite the hand that feeds them. The solution? Recruit serious talent, buy SDK/API specialist companies, throw a truckload of money at it… Let’s do whatever it takes, and quickly!

5) Need for serious marketing punch to create end user desire

25 million iPad users don’t care that it doesn’t have Flash or true multitasking, so why make that a focus in our campaigns? I’ll answer that for you: it’s because that’s all that differentiates our products and its lazy marketing. I’ve never seen someone buy product B because it has something product A doesn’t have. People buy product B because they want and lust after product B.

Also an important note regarding our marketing: a product’s technical superiority does not equal desire, and therefore sales… How many Linux laptops are getting sold? How did Betamax go? My mother wants an iPad and iPhone because it is simple and appeals to her. Powerful multitasking doesn’t.

BlackBerry Messenger has been our standout, yet we wasted our marketing on strange stories from a barber shop to a horse wrangler. I promise you, this did nothing to help us in the mind of the average consumer.

We need an inventive and engaging campaign that focuses on what we are about. People buy into a brand / product not just because of features, but because of what it stands for and what it delivers to them. People don’t buy “what you do,” people buy “why you do it.” Take 3 minutes to watch the this video starting from the 2min mark: http://youtu.be/qp0HIF3SfI4

6) No Accountability – Canadians are too nice

RIM has a lot of people who underperform but still stay in their roles. No one is accountable. Where is the guy responsible for the 9530 software? Still with us, still running some important software initiative. We will never achieve excellence with this culture. Just because someone may have been a loyal RIM employee for 7 years, it doesn’t mean they are the best Manager / Director / VP for that role. It’s time to change the culture to deliver or move on and get out. We have far too many people in critical roles that fit this description. I can hear the cheers of my fellow employees now.

7) The press and analysts are pissing you off. Don’t snap. Now is the time for humility with a dash of paranoia.

The public’s questions about dual-CEOs are warranted. The partnership is not broken, but on the ground level, it is not efficient. Maybe we need our Eric Schmidt reign period.

Yes, four years ago we beat Microsoft when everyone said Windows Mobile with Direct Push in Exchange would kill us. It didn’t… in fact we grew stronger.

However, overconfidence clouds good decision-making. We missed not boldly reacting to the threat of iPhone when we saw it in January over four years ago. We laughed and said they are trying to put a computer on a phone, that it won’t work. We should have made the QNX-like transition then. We are now 3-4 years too late. That is the painful truth… it was a major strategic oversight and we know who is responsible.

Jim, in referring to our current transition recently said: “No other technology company other than Apple has successfully transitioned their platform. It’s almost never done, and it’s way harder than you realize. This transition is where tech companies go to die.”

To avoid this death, perhaps it is time to seriously consider a new, fresh thinking, experienced CEO. There is no shame in no longer being a CEO. Mike, you could focus on innovation. Jim, you could focus on our carriers/customers… They are our lifeblood.

8) Democratise. Engage and interact with your employees — please!

Reach out to all employees asking them on how we can make RIM better. Encourage input from ground-level teams—without repercussions—to seek out honest feedback and really absorb it.

Lastly, we’re all reading the news and many are extremely nervous, especially when we see people get fired. We need an injection of confidence: share your strategy and ask us for support. The headhunters have already started circling and we are at risk of losing our best people.

Now would be a great time to internally re-brand and re-energize the workplace. For example, rename the company to just “BlackBerry” to signify our new focus on one QNX product line. We should also address issues surrounding making RIM an enjoyable workplace. Some of our offices feel like Soviet-era government workplaces.

The timing is perfect to seriously evaluate at our position and make these major changes. We can do it!

Sincerely,

A RIM Employee

I know it is a long read, but it is a good read.

source: http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/open-letter-to-blackberry-bosses-senior-rim-exec-tells-all-as-company-crumbles-around-him/

RIM's response:

An “Open Letter” to RIM’s senior management was published anonymously on the web today and it was attributed to an unnamed person described as a ‘high level employee”. It is obviously difficult to address anonymous commentary and it is particularly difficult to believe that a “high level employee” in good standing with the company would choose to anonymously publish a letter on the web rather than engage their fellow executives in a constructive manner, but regardless of whether the letter is real, fake, exaggerated or written with ulterior motivations, it is fair to say that the senior management team at RIM is nonetheless fully aware of and aggressively addressing both the company’s challenges and its opportunities.

RIM recently confirmed that it is nearing the end of a major business and technology transition. Although this transition has taken longer than anticipated, there is much excitement and optimism within the company about the new products that are lined up for the coming months. There is a fundamental business reality however that following an extended period of hyper growth (during which RIM nearly quadrupled in size over the past 5 years alone), it has become necessary for the company to streamline its operations in order to allow it to grow its business profitably while pursuing newer strategic opportunities. Again, RIM’s management team takes these challenges seriously and is actively addressing the situation. The company is thankfully in a solid business and financial position to tackle the opportunities ahead with a solid balance sheet (nearly $3 billion in cash and no debt), strong profitability (RIM’s net income last quarter was $695 million) and substantial international growth (international revenue in Q1 grew 67% over the same quarter last year). In fact, while growth has slowed in the US, RIM still shipped 13.2 million BlackBerry smartphones last quarter (which is about 100 smartphones per minute, 24 hours per day) and RIM is more committed than ever to serving its loyal customers and partners around the world.

source: http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/30/rim-responds-to-open-letter-published-by-bgr/

inb4http://i.imgur.com/U7PpT.gif

Gridlock

06-30-2011, 10:14 PM

Ha!

The response proves the letter true.

I paraphrase...
"If it was a high-level employee in good standing, they would have brought up their concerns in the quarterly employee morale meeting with their direct superior, followed up by a one on one chat with their hr rep and director level superior for review...."

See, what maddens me, is that guy needs his ass promoted. He's pissed off, but cares. Guaranteed, his boss wants his negative nelly attituded up ass fired a week ago. He's a malcontent that doesn't get it!

Sadly, that guy, in 5 years is gonna pull that shit up when they are auctioning off the soviet style furniture and be like...told you bitches.

Hehe

06-30-2011, 11:14 PM

Honestly, it's sad to see a once market-leading company is doing this bad. And I used to think RIM is one of the only few truly innovative/well managed company.

The smart portable devices (phones/tablets) had its explosive advancement in the last couple of years and I guess RIM really didn't see it coming.

They basically dominated the smartphone for corporation back then because all the intuitive software they provided on their phones. But as iOS and Android started to expand, they didn't see the opportunity coming and missed a lot of steps and shipped many insignificant products.

I hope RIM can get better. After all, for consumers, the more competition there is, the better.

But from the response, it seems that they are in denial... simply stating what they have done and not offering any better insights.

From a personal perspective, I felt it was a really lousy official response. It would be better if they simply state that they are willing to accept criticism and would provide a determined dates to come up with some sort of actual actions, rather than stating what they have achieved so far with current management.

They have to get it... the problem this open letter want to say is... THE MANAGEMENT IS THE PROBLEM.

wouwou

06-30-2011, 11:24 PM

Culverin

06-30-2011, 11:32 PM

I for one love my Crackberry, can't live without it. If someone offer me a free iphone, I will sell it and get a BB instead.

What the letter said, especially the end-user experience, hit the spot pretty good. I don't actually mind not having the "game"apps, but for utility apps BB sucks major balls.

Ok, once and for all, I gotta hear why people love their blackberries. I just don't get it.

If the user-end experience isn't there (meaning the GUI is lacking), what the hell is left that makes you loyal to it? All fanboyism aside, what does it do better for you, that android or iphone doesn't?

Shorn

06-30-2011, 11:42 PM

For me, all blackberries had going was the physical keyboard.. meant messaging and texting was much faster. Plus once I had it down I didn't have to look at the keyboard to type.. a plus in class. Other than that, I much prefer my iphone with its practically limitless entertainment and easy to use/functional interface. BBM was cool for a bit.. but I do fine with just texting. BBM to me was just a more reliable way of texting.. can't remember the last time I felt the need to send a voice message or a picture.

StylinRed

06-30-2011, 11:52 PM

Honestly, it's sad to see a once market-leading company is doing this bad. And I used to think RIM is one of the only few truly innovative/well managed company.

which market? NA? it was always a small market until the last few years when smartphones started to take off among the general populace (NA was always slow to adopt)

NOKIA FTW :(

I'd say Nokia is in a worse position but that isn't really true since they have an escape plan in place and in the process (although they are selling off assets... :/ and i think WP is going to fail... since it has been failing all this time) but even Elop was making fun of RIM so :shrug:

This "open letter" is all the buzz though even if its not from within RIM it describes the general sentiment out there in the blogosphere as well, everyone is saying RIM is dying although they still have a respectable marketshare

Rank . . . Operating System . . Market Share Q1 . .........(2010 Q4)

1 . . . . . . Android . . . . . . . . . 35%. . . . . . . . . . . . . . (30%)
2 . . . . . . Symbian . . . . . . . . . 25% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (32%) (expected to plummet to single digits '11/'12)
3 . . . . . . iOS . . . . . . . . . . . . 18% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (16%)
4 . . . . . . Blackberry . . . . . . . . 14% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (14%)
5 . . . . . . bada . . . . . . . . . . . . 3% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ( 3%)
6 . . . . . . Windows Mobile............2% . . . . . . . . . . . . . .( 2%)
7 . . . . . . Phone 7......................2% . . . . . . . . . . . . . .( 2%) rofl
Others . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1% . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ( 1%)

Culverin

07-01-2011, 12:02 AM

MindBomber

07-01-2011, 12:13 AM

tool001

07-01-2011, 12:41 AM

one of the biggest issues is process of developing apps for bb os. thats why bb is losing out,, iphone and now android has tons of apps. bb needs to losen its grip a little on app development

flagella

07-01-2011, 12:48 AM

Ok, once and for all, I gotta hear why people love their blackberries. I just don't get it.

If the user-end experience isn't there (meaning the GUI is lacking), what the hell is left that makes you loyal to it? All fanboyism aside, what does it do better for you, that android or iphone doesn't?

The image of professionalism associated with it. :rofl:

Gridlock

07-01-2011, 09:14 AM

If the letter is authentic, and there's really no reason to believe otherwise, I would be taking it very seriously if I were a rim ceo. The voice of your workforce is powerful tool and receiving it in an undistorted fashion is nearly impossible, not only that, but the letter has excellent points.

Also, if RIM has 3 billion cash and no debt, but they have government surplus soviet furniture decorating their offices they need to start investing in their working conditions. If google has proved anything to the world in the last decade, it's that an amazing work environment attracts and retains talent better than any headhunter or HR vp ever could.

I did my practicum at Telus hq on Kingsway, and they were starting to get it. They were updating everything to be a technology company, not a utility company. New decor, computers, and a pool table in the cafeteria. Not quite google, but a step in the right direction.

I used to work for a large logistics company..well, the largest actually. And these types of problems permeate any company that used to have a really good thing going on then lost it.

The worst thing that can happen is "business as usual".

For us, it was a license to print money. We had people stacked in every corner possible running around thinking they were important. We had a large client that just paid the bill and didn't ask questions.

Then the port strike hit.

Suddenly, we had to adapt and quickly. We had no idea how to do it.

Management was useless to the task. I actually got in a fight with the director of the company right before he outranked me, did it his way and lost 10's of thousands on a stupid maneuver. He got fired,I got promoted ;)

They never got it back after that. We couldn't close the books on a bad year and call it a day. Suddenly, our customers were asking questions. They started developing contingency plans that involved not putting all their freight in one basket.

The point is, everyone wanted to get back to the good ole days.

And companies like Blackberry are doing the same thing. The same night I read this, I read an article that shareholders are wanting the co-ceo's to step down as co-chairmen of the board.

They won't listen to this letter because the bosses of the day to day operation are the heads of the board and are also the largest shareholders.

hk20000

07-01-2011, 09:21 AM

I've played with my friends blackberries, those keyboards are awesome. Can't argue with you there and as for BBM, whatsapp seems similar, it's quick. Isn't that all BBM had going for it?

If all you want is a physical keyboard MANY Android phones will have that in large scale or same scale as what RIM has to offer.

http://www.androidauthority.com/the-best-qwerty-android-phones-in-2011-compared-10391/

and my odd as hell phone that I start to get used to and bought it solely because it has proper keyboard:
http://www.alcatel-mobilephones.com/us/North-America/products/United-States/Touch-GSM/OT-981A

which the keyboard is almost identical to what Palm and Crackberry has to offer. And the phone is cheap as you won't believe it and AWS capable.

Gridlock

07-01-2011, 09:38 AM

BTW...just finished watching the TED video, and its worth the 20 minutes. Nothing revolutionary, but well presented.

Skyline350gt

07-01-2011, 10:37 AM

Blackberry's is a trademark now when one thinks of networking.
BBM is a great and classic feature like MSN messenger in the telecommunication world.
They just need to fix the stupid OS and I will be happy. :thumbsup:

dangonay

07-01-2011, 10:46 AM

In related news, Nortel Networks patent portfolio was just sold. Initially it was thought that a single company would buy it (Google offered up $900 million).

Then it was announced that Apple, Microsoft, RIM, Sony, EMC and Ericsson got together and paid a whopping $4.5 billion. RIM's share was reportedly $770 million and Ericsson's was $340 million.

Interesting that RIM paid that much money and also interesting they did it as part of a group of companies that are basically competitors in the smartphone market.

So what does this mean for Android, since Google, Samsung, Motorola and HTC were all left out of this deal.

gars

07-01-2011, 10:53 AM

I have both a BB and an iPhone 4 (from work), and while I do play with my iPhone when I'm bored, games, etc - I still end up using my BB a lot more. It's not just about messaging, but with the menus, etc, everything is so much more streamlined and integrated. Even firing off a text quickly, or responding to an email, it's so much quicker on my BB.

I just love on my BB how everything is integrated. I take a picture, and press the menu button and I can send it via email, via facebook, via whatsapp, via MMS. iOS only allows you to do it thru email or MMS. And if you want to attach more things to an email, it's easy to do - with iOS - there's a long workaround to do it.

Unfortunately, I've never had an Android Device, and considering how much of a tweaker I am, I think I will have fun with it.

rsx

07-01-2011, 10:55 AM

Had an iphone 3g and I can honestly say it kicks the blackberry torch's ass, in all aspects.

Iphone if you're taken, bb if you're single. I hate to admit it but bbm is pretty nuts, girls just seem more than willing to sext. The phone itself sucks though.

Say all you want about the poor management of RIM and how it turns out inferior OS' the company has zero debt.

SaviorSelf_666

07-01-2011, 10:58 AM

What they need to do is get this ass on track with their blackberry playbook, I check their shitty app store every day to see if something cool worth downloading comes up...there is nothing! Only thing I've downloaded since buying it is Facebook. Web browsing is decent tho.

I will be switching from my iPhone 4 to the new Bold 99xx when it's released. I have so many devices that can do what the iPhone does.

t8v6

07-01-2011, 11:00 AM

bcrdukes

07-01-2011, 11:07 AM

Then it was announced that Apple, Microsoft, RIM, Sony, EMC and Ericsson got together and paid a whopping $4.5 billion. RIM's share was reportedly $770 million and Ericsson's was $340 million.

Interesting that RIM paid that much money and also interesting they did it as part of a group of companies that are basically competitors in the smartphone market.

So what does this mean for Android, since Google, Samsung, Motorola and HTC were all left out of this deal.

The companies who bought the Nortel patents are primarily hardware manufacturers with RIM, Sony, EMC and Ericsson being the major players. Software, not so much.

Ericsson North America's business unit was interested in buying out Nortel's patents in order to incorporate the technology it into their hardware designs. In regards to software, it will probably be re-engineered to a proprietary Ericsson language (AXE.) Nortel had a very lucrative and diverse portfolio of products, composed of both physical hardware and intellectual property/rights hence the list of buyers.

Source: Industry personnel.

Great68

07-01-2011, 11:25 AM

There are lots of things I wish were better with my Blackberry, but not enough for it worth to be worth spending cash on a personal Android or iPhone and usage plan.

Makes phone calls - Check
Does email - Check
Does google maps - Check
Plays music - Bonus

That's pretty much all I need and use.

fs604

07-01-2011, 11:29 AM

For me, all blackberries had going was the physical keyboard.. meant messaging and texting was much faster. Plus once I had it down I didn't have to look at the keyboard to type.. a plus in class.

well, for me anyways, the physical keyboard doesn't matter for me. I pretty much memorized the iphone keyboard and can type perfectly without looking, the only problem is that I don't see if it autocorrected into something wrong.

Drk

07-01-2011, 11:45 AM

inb4http://i.imgur.com/U7PpT.gif

Too late

Vale46Rossi

07-01-2011, 12:17 PM

Due to work I was given all a blackberry and I have recently just purchased a Samsung Galaxy 2s and I have always been an iPhone user.

These are the top 3 phones out for their respective market

iPhone 4
Blackberry Torch
Samsung Galaxy S2

Let me tell you.

I use the blackberry for work so BBM is what it's used for....
Iphone 4 for everyday life
Samsung I just got it to check out the android system.

Let me tell you... The Blackberry is a piece of shit, we are talking about user interface sucks, old technology that is slow. ONLY good thing is the BBM which I am an avid user of. But since then it's starting to be replaced by whatsapp on iPhone and Android I am slowly using the BBM less and less. Also with iMessage coming out for iPhone in 5.0 I am sure it will make me use BBM a lot less.

I have been using i OS 5.0 for a while now and it have made the iPhone 4 so much better but of course minus the bugs that it has due to being a beta version.

But seriously, The blackberry fucking sucks.

R-U-Retarded?

07-01-2011, 12:33 PM

What do you think of the SGs2 comapred with the iphone.
I'ved used both and im gonna say fuck iphone/itunes/ios.

Culverin

07-01-2011, 01:43 PM

If all you want is a physical keyboard MANY Android phones will have that in large scale or same scale as what RIM has to offer.
I don't really want a keyboard, but I think maybe BB users might have difficulty letting the idea go.

I just love on my BB how everything is integrated. I take a picture, and press the menu button and I can send it via email, via facebook, via whatsapp, via MMS. iOS only allows you to do it thru email or MMS. And if you want to attach more things to an email, it's easy to do - with iOS - there's a long workaround to do it.

Unfortunately, I've never had an Android Device, and considering how much of a tweaker I am, I think I will have fun with it.

This is how integrated my photos/gallery is with my Galaxy S.
I can share via: all share, sms, picasa, google buzz, evernote, google docs, facebook, whatsapp, google+, bluetooth and email. I'm actually impressed it was this integrated.

well, for me anyways, the physical keyboard doesn't matter for me. I pretty much memorized the iphone keyboard and can type perfectly without looking, the only problem is that I don't see if it autocorrected into something wrong.

Well, I don't really know how you iphone guys do it. Everytime I pick one up, I feel like a rooster pecking at a screen. Seems so tedious and slow, so prone to error.

I use swype, it's like touch typing, but instead of having to nail each letter correctly, you just trace out the shape of your words on the screen and get it close to your desired keys.

P.S.
The world texting record is held by a Galaxy S using Swype

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAh-FqEizi4

doverbay

07-01-2011, 05:36 PM

Gridlock

07-01-2011, 09:01 PM

these are the ONLY two reasons I know of why the majority of the population has a blackberry..

1) their work gave them one
2) BBM

I fall under the ladder. If it were not for BBM I would not have gotten the Blackberry.
It's a dumbass reason, but BBM is the most superior IM client ever created for a phone.
If Apple made "Apple Messenger" a native IM client built into their device they would completely wipe out RIM. I would switch to an iPhone the next day

Got to love patents.

I've done no research, but I assume thats why apple and everyone has not replicated BBM into their units.

Hardware to run it can't be much of a problem with the server farms operated by Apple or google.

Ch28

07-01-2011, 09:03 PM

these are the ONLY two reasons I know of why the majority of the population has a blackberry..

1) their work gave them one
2) BBM

I fall under the ladder. If it were not for BBM I would not have gotten the Blackberry.
It's a dumbass reason, but BBM is the most superior IM client ever created for a phone.
If Apple made "Apple Messenger" a native IM client built into their device they would completely wipe out RIM. I would switch to an iPhone the next day

http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/06/apple-unveils-imessage-its-bbm-competitor-at-wwdc/

Tapioca

07-02-2011, 12:06 AM

Culverin

07-02-2011, 12:19 AM

Somebody's gotta explain in plain language to me what a secure email server is.

k thanks.

kungpow

07-02-2011, 12:34 AM

Newb question: Does Google have a secure email server, like RIM, for real-time e-mail? I know Apple doesn't.

If not, case closed. If you want real-time and secure e-mail, your only option is Blackberry. There are many of use who actually use email and don't use our phones to chat, play games, listen to music, etc.

Where did you get this info from? I don't think you have a clue on how email works or technology for that matter.

If your email server provides SSL, you have encryption and it's real-time.

The only good thing about RIM is that if your email server doesn't support SSL, then it will still be encrypted anyway since you setup your pop email account in BIS.

jeedee

07-02-2011, 12:48 AM

For me, BlackBerry has always kept me as a customer for the following:

1) Physical keyboard
2) BBM
3) LED light
4) Easy housing changes

The third one is a BIG advantage compared to Android and iPhone. I have friends with iPhones and they've always had to check when they got a text, at random times. I can't say for the Android on the other hand.

The 4th one is also a great bonus. If I'm ever bored of how my phone looks, I can always change the color of it etc. With the iPhone...that's a completely different story.

The led is a huge plus for notifying me when I get a text instead of just checking my phone at random times

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbHWGVEg9hQ

The iPhone4 has interested me with it's fast browsing and very impressive camera quality, compared to a BlackBerry, the browsing and camera is shit on it lol. I'm not a big fan on touch screens, but if Apple ever had a phone with the top 4 + fast browsing app + great camera, count me in.

sas

07-02-2011, 12:56 AM

Blackberry for work - reliable and I know my emails will be sent/received. I'm very happy with:

the battery life
easy to navigate
physical keyboard
syncs with CRM - don't think droids offer MS CRM yet?
BB messenger
Not a fan of touch (or just could be the X10 sucks balls)

And most importantly, it was free from work. I just can't see our office using iphones or droids because of the optics. I really want to give the Nokia E6 a try though.

Keep in mind, my perspective is most likely different than 90% of RS who are more likely tech savy. My priorities are reliability and communication. Nothing fancy, it's a working tool not a toy for me.

skiiipi

07-02-2011, 01:36 AM

I think people are blackberry loyal for the following reasons.

1. Its a working tool, it is still the phone of choice by most large corporations, and it is reliable for work needs.
2.The "professionalism" image associated with BBs. Hard to deny in the working world, a lot of professionals still see Iphones as more of a toy than a professional/business device. Its the same reason why business laptops do not look fancy, they look professional + they work.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

goo3

07-02-2011, 05:08 AM

I used to work for a large logistics company..well, the largest actually. And these types of problems permeate any company that used to have a really good thing going on then lost it.

The worst thing that can happen is "business as usual".

For us, it was a license to print money. We had people stacked in every corner possible running around thinking they were important. We had a large client that just paid the bill and didn't ask questions.

Then the port strike hit.

Suddenly, we had to adapt and quickly. We had no idea how to do it.

I think this describes RIM and Nokia pretty well. They both grew into giants beginning either in the 90s or early 2000s and what was working pre-2008 was not something that worked by 2009: the market had drastically changed and they didn't see it coming until it did. Trying to change momentum in mindset and culture of a large organization (of many individuals) that quickly is difficult to do, especially if it's not coming from the top. I gather ppl in your company went through a range of emotions like denial, resistance, blame, and anger before reaching acceptance. Unfortunately, it takes a few years to build a smart phone platform from scratch. Even then, it's not guaranteed to be good.

In related news, Nortel Networks patent portfolio was just sold. Initially it was thought that a single company would buy it (Google offered up $900 million).

Then it was announced that Apple, Microsoft, RIM, Sony, EMC and Ericsson got together and paid a whopping $4.5 billion. RIM's share was reportedly $770 million and Ericsson's was $340 million.

Interesting that RIM paid that much money and also interesting they did it as part of a group of companies that are basically competitors in the smartphone market.

So what does this mean for Android, since Google, Samsung, Motorola and HTC were all left out of this deal.

It means Google still needs a patent portfolio either by building one up or buying one. Infringement is less of a deal if the other guy is also infringing on your patents. That's why it makes sense for these guys to team up.

LiquidTurbo

07-02-2011, 03:20 PM

I have an iPhone and BB Bold for work. What usually ends up happening is read the emails on the iPhone and type the response on the BB. Hahaha. Someone earlier mentioned that BBM is the "best msging platform". Why exactly?

iMessage coming out soon. Should be pretty much curtains for BBM, or at least a lot of it.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

taylor192

07-02-2011, 03:39 PM

For me, all blackberries had going was the physical keyboard.. meant messaging and texting was much faster.
I feel the same. I had 2 BBs cause I loved the hardware, the keyboard was fantastic to use.

I finally got sick of the lack of app support and moved to Android. With the Swype keyboard I am completely hooked and have no reason to go back to a physical keyboard.

taylor192

07-02-2011, 03:41 PM

3) LED light

It is hilarious how much I miss such a simple feature! All phones should have this.

Bonka

07-02-2011, 03:44 PM

Does any Android phone have an LED indicator?

Physical keyboard, LED indicator and battery life is what's keeping me on a BB, despite the archaic UI.

taylor192

07-02-2011, 03:47 PM

Unfortunately, I've never had an Android Device, and considering how much of a tweaker I am, I think I will have fun with it.
You'll love Android! Widgets and launchers are so much fun to customize!

I've got 7 home screens of various widgets that I don't even have to start an application to send a message, send an email, check my calendar/agenda, check the weather, read the news, play songs, toggle wifi/bluetooth/vibrate/..., kill apps, and tons more!

optiblue

07-02-2011, 08:31 PM

iPhone for life! Blackberry webbrowsing sucks!
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

johnnycage

07-02-2011, 08:43 PM

I use swype, it's like touch typing, but instead of having to nail each letter correctly, you just trace out the shape of your words on the screen and get it close to your desired keys.

P.S.
The world texting record is held by a Galaxy S using Swype

YouTube - ‪Guinness Record for Texting Challenge‬&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAh-FqEizi4)

I find swype quite hard to get used to, tried it on my friends phone for awhile : / but nonetheless, its a great feature

dark0821

07-02-2011, 09:17 PM

damn... the letter is ery well written...
and i must admit... its true...

I am in a market for an iPhone, and I am even considering the BB, I keep labeling BB as Boring/work/efficient phone.... iPhone as trendy/fun whatever...

after all i am an average joe... ya...

wouwou

07-02-2011, 10:39 PM

gars

07-03-2011, 12:35 AM

It is hilarious how much I miss such a simple feature! All phones should have this.

I forgot to mention the LED as well - I leave my phone on silent at work - just keep my LED on, so I know when people message me. And it makes it so easy so I don't have to keep hitting my screen to see if any messages have come across.

Can you use swype without looking at the screen? I like the idea of it, and I know it's fast, but typing without looking at my keyboard is really handy.

DanHibiki

07-03-2011, 12:56 AM

To this day I still don't understand the BBM hype.

How is it different than texting? Is it because you feel like you're in a conversation rather than leaving messages? ie. the difference between emails and msn?

Is it the exclusivity of it? that only blackberry owners can use it?

For the last year I kept saying to myself "All iPhone needs is their own bbm and blackberry will be done" and BAM! iMessage is coming out and I'm excited! But then I think, isn't apps like Whatsapp, LiveProfile, TextPlus, Kakaotalk, etc. better since they are cross platform? If I use iMessage primarily, I won't be able to talk to my android friends.

About the LED light. Rumors is that iPhone 5 will have it.

I'm jealous of Swype on the Android.

The good thing about the iPhone is although they are slow and added features that already exist on other phones, they WILL implement them eventually. So the phone you love just gets better. It's like Apple's way of :troll:ing. They know everyone loves the iPhone already and they don't have to be THAT innovative on their features, just gotta slowly release already existing features. :troll:

unit

07-03-2011, 01:46 AM

BBM hype makes no sense really. since whatsapp came along bbm is basically toast.
people only hang on to thier BBs because they already have friends with BBs who probably refuse to install whatsapp.

LED is nice, but how could you hold on to a phone because of something like that, and ignore everything else bad about it?

there are software LEDs on android, where when you get a msg, the screen stays black and a colored square sort of flashes on the screen to indicate what type of notification you have.

YouTube - ‪NoLED für Android by mobiFlip.de HD‬&rlm;

jeedee

07-03-2011, 01:50 AM

Bonka

07-03-2011, 02:01 AM

I find that many of the Androids and the iPhone do not require housing changes as they look great the way they are.

Yes, newer BBs are easier to swap housings, but the build quality is getting crappier as well. I would know I own the 9780.

jeedee

07-03-2011, 02:05 AM

Same can be said with a BlackBerry, but how long will you get bored of how your phone looks like? Wouldn't you want your phone to be unique/different than someone elses?

Maybe it's just me :lol

ajax

07-03-2011, 02:08 AM

As many others mentioned, the only reason regular phone users still have a BB is:
1) BBM
2) Keyboard
3) Battery life
4) Ease of use

For me the only things stopping me from switiching to an iPhone are bbm and the keyboard.

Also Whatsapp sucks.
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Bonka

07-03-2011, 02:20 AM

Same can be said with a BlackBerry, but how long will you get bored of how your phone looks like? Wouldn't you want your phone to be unique/different than someone elses?

Maybe it's just me :lol

When you get bored, you get a new phone :D

BB users are a strange breed indeed but I do sympathize with them as there is a certain kind of charm with BlackBerries. It's sort of like people who prefer classic cars to modern cars. The list of negatives are long with a classic car but the few positive attributes it has really do win you over.

Simplex123

07-03-2011, 03:02 AM

There's also 1 huge advantage that BlackBerry has and iPhone/Android doesn't:

Housing changes.

Each BlackBerry that is being released is easier and easier to change, compared to an iPhone/Android. If you try opening it [iPhone/Android], and try changing the parts, you can easily fuck up your phone in the process. It's a different story with BlackBerry's :fullofwin:
iPhone users actually don't care about housings because they have so many fucking cases. I know people who want an iPhone because they want some of those nice cases...
Yes, newer BBs are easier to swap housings, but the build quality is getting crappier as well. I would know I own the 9780.
Really? I found the quality to be pretty good on the 9780. No loose/squeaky parts and the phone is quite solid

Culverin

07-03-2011, 04:00 AM

the keyboard and the email

What's the email like? I've got zero complaints with my native gmail app, but if blackberry's email app is better, I'll start looking for a better aftermarket solution.

StylinRed

07-03-2011, 04:14 AM

LED is nice, but how could you hold on to a phone because of something like that, and ignore everything else bad about it?

there are software LEDs on android, where when you get a msg, the screen stays black and a colored square sort of flashes on the screen to indicate what type of notification you have.

YouTube - ‪NoLED für Android by mobiFlip.de HD‬&rlm; (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5inbIdazqcU)

hey Nokia has something like that too which has made me love amoled screens

YouTube - ‪Nokia Sleeping Screen [Experimental] (Nokia Beta Labs)‬&rlm;

:fullofwin:

and that police siren led for BB is awesome

CT10

07-03-2011, 09:04 AM

I've used BB, iphone, winmo and android, and the reason why I keep going back to blackberries is because of the email, keyboard, battery life and reception.

I text a lot, and my battery can easily last me 2 days on heavy usage. Where as on the iphone, android and winmo I find that the battery is almost dead by 9pm, which I absolutely cannot stand.

IPhones and Androids feel like a toy more than a phone, sure you can download all those different games and apps, but to me, it doesn't do what a phone is supposed to do, have great battery life, reception and a good keyboard. Especially if you text a lot, the touchscreen keyboard on the iphone and android is a pain in the ass, even with Swype on the android, I type a lot of slang and I believe you have to go into swype and program all the slang words that you use, where as on the blackberry I don't have to program anything.

But then again, the lack of apps on the blackberry is really pissing me off haha

07-03-2011, 09:18 AM

Ok, once and for all, I gotta hear why people love their blackberries. I just don't get it.

It's a dumbass reason, but BBM is the most superior IM client ever created for a phone.
If Apple made "Apple Messenger" a native IM client built into their device they would completely wipe out RIM. I would switch to an iPhone the next day

This debate can go on forever. I've written an article about this once, and I'll see what I can remember..

I have both an iPhone and a Berry. I'll try and put a different angle on it.

You can't argue with:
iPhone wins - Apps and browsing.
BB wins - E-mail, messaging, speed.

No question that iPhone wins on apps.

People can type exponentially faster on a tactile keyboard because we get used to the feel and location of the physical keys. Don't even wanna get started with iPhone's autocorrect.

BB's e-mail system is way more work-friendly. What blows me away is with all this intricate programming, an iPhone can't even "mark all e-mails as read."

Reason why BBM is (and might always be) the most superior instant messaging client: exclusivity. Just like Facebook.
First of all, the obvious - it's faster. Especially when you really get into the conversation. Has group chat, instant picture sending, voice notes, and more.
But ultimately - It's one step below asking for someone's phone number, but it's one step above having someone's phone number. It's more casual. It gives the user a feel of close exclusiveness. People are more willing to post up their PINs than phone numbers online. Phone numbers get tossed left and right, everyone has everyone's phone number - family, friends, school, work, plumber, pizza shop.. etc. But to have that direct contact with someone, and know if they're checking their phone on the other end, is something text messaging doesn't have. For lack of a better word, it's "cooler."

The best App I've seen that mimics BBM is one called Whatsapp. It has group chats, does the pictures, has the "delivered" and "received" on messages, and so on. It even connects BB's with iPhones with Androids!
The only downside is that users must go out of their way to download it, and it works through phone numbers instead of some sort of PIN code.

Apple is also coming out with iMessage, which is, quote, "BBM for iPhone." They're finally pulling the trigger and not even hiding the fact that it's Apple's direct copy of BBM.

In the end, BBM did it first. And disregarding the business end, they will always have that going for them. Just like all these new Facebook and Youtube knockoffs that will never have the same impact as the original.

On iPhone's end, hell, they have unlimited Apps out there. Pretty self-explanitory.

The way I see it, it's a personal choice between Apps, or Messaging/e-mail. To each their own.

Ludepower

07-03-2011, 10:18 AM

If i had 100 friends and half of them were girls on my BBM. Then of course I'll never let it go...but I dont.

The iphone is the new generation of phones. The benefits of the touchscreen outweigh a fixed keyboard.

Mancini

07-03-2011, 12:03 PM

The iphone is the new generation of phones. The benefits of the touchscreen outweigh a fixed keyboard.

This. There may be some [business] users for whom the ultimate typing/messaging experience is of paramount importance.

For everything else the bigger screen is a big, big plus.

unit

07-03-2011, 12:08 PM

Also Whatsapp sucks.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

care to explain in practical terms, what the difference is?
ive used both extensively and i dont think whatsapp sucks at all.

IPhones and Androids feel like a toy more than a phone, sure you can download all those different games and apps, but to me, it doesn't do what a phone is supposed to do, have great battery life, reception and a good keyboard.
But then again, the lack of apps on the blackberry is really pissing me off haha

the thing about phones is, they've evolved into so much more than phones. i wouldnt even say the primary purpose of my phone is for calling anymore.
msging, browsing, apps, gps, all this stuff has become what a phone is meant for today.

im surprised they are still calling them phones. they should be called personal devices or something like that. so to choose a phone because "it does what a phone should do" is a terrible reason. it might have made sense if we were living in the 90s, but nowadays a phone is "supposed to do" much more than it used to. and thats where a blackberry just fails at being a "phone".

Simplex123

07-03-2011, 01:57 PM

Reason why BBM is (and might always be) the most superior instant messaging client: exclusivity. Just like Facebook.
First of all, the obvious - it's faster. Especially when you really get into the conversation. Has group chat, instant picture sending, voice notes, and more.
But ultimately - It's one step below asking for someone's phone number, but it's one step above having someone's phone number. It's more casual. It gives the user a feel of close exclusiveness. People are more willing to post up their PINs than phone numbers online. Phone numbers get tossed left and right, everyone has everyone's phone number - family, friends, school, work, plumber, pizza shop.. etc. But to have that direct contact with someone, and know if they're checking their phone on the other end, is something text messaging doesn't have. For lack of a better word, it's "cooler."

The best App I've seen that mimics BBM is one called Whatsapp. It has group chats, does the pictures, has the "delivered" and "received" on messages, and so on. It even connects BB's with iPhones with Androids!
The only downside is that users must go out of their way to download it, and it works through phone numbers instead of some sort of PIN code.

Apple is also coming out with iMessage, which is, quote, "BBM for iPhone." They're finally pulling the trigger and not even hiding the fact that it's Apple's direct copy of BBM.

In the end, BBM did it first. And disregarding the business end, they will always have that going for them. Just like all these new Facebook and Youtube knockoffs that will never have the same impact as the original.

Many people buy BlackBerries because of BBM, and now that iOS 5 has its own iMessage with basically all the features BBM has, people will probably choose iPhone>BlackBerry. What I see happening, is that BBM users will stick with a BlackBerry as they already have all their friends/groups on BBM, but the average people who have never used a Blackberry before and are deciding between the two will most likely choose the iPhone. As for single guys and gals, they will continue to use BBM, because girls with nails clearly cannot type on iPhones!

Regarding the impact iMessage will have.. obviously it will not have the same impact, but people will not switch over to BlackBerries just because they are the Original. They want to use what their friends are using and iPhone's user base is obviously larger globally. I say globally, because it's not really the case in Vancouver because I do see A LOT of BlackBerries wherever I go. And according to these (http://mobilesyrup.com/2011/06/01/report-rim-has-42-of-canadian-smartphone-market-followed-by-apple-with-31/) stats, BlackBerry has 42% of the Canadian smartphone market and Apple only has 31%.

DanHibiki

07-03-2011, 03:30 PM

For iMessage. I assume u can add ppl by either phone #s or emails? There's no iMessage pin right?
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CT10

07-03-2011, 03:48 PM

the thing about phones is, they've evolved into so much more than phones. i wouldnt even say the primary purpose of my phone is for calling anymore.
msging, browsing, apps, gps, all this stuff has become what a phone is meant for today.

im surprised they are still calling them phones. they should be called personal devices or something like that. so to choose a phone because "it does what a phone should do" is a terrible reason. it might have made sense if we were living in the 90s, but nowadays a phone is "supposed to do" much more than it used to. and thats where a blackberry just fails at being a "phone".

I agree that phones have evolved a lot, but how does a blackberry not do most of the things you listed?

Messaging - Blackberry is still at the top
Browsing - not as good as the iphone but it still works when I want to browse websites, news, RS, etc
Apps - iphone wins this hands down
GPS - Google Maps is just as good on the BB vs the iphone

but in the end i'm a old school person and everyone has different values of what a 'phone' is 'supposed to do'. It's cool and all that it can play angry birds (which I loved when I had my iphone) but to most blackberry users (which is decreasing day by day) what I want in a phone is a real keyboard, good reception and good battery life which will last me at least a day on heavy usage, which is impossible on these 4" phones with AMOLED screens coming out nowadays. Not to mention a LED light to remind me of missed calls

I've used an iphone and android before and I keep going back to a blackberry because it does well in what I value in a phone

unit

07-03-2011, 04:10 PM

can't argue with that.

DanHibiki

07-03-2011, 04:49 PM

I don't like playing single player games so I practically never play games on my iPhone.

I only liked coop multiplayer games or versus games onlines.

THANK YOU STREET FIGHTER 4: VOLT!!!

Now I just need a better data plan so I can play it outside of wifi areas.

dangonay

07-03-2011, 05:58 PM

For iMessage. I assume u can add ppl by either phone #s or emails? There's no iMessage pin right?

Been playing around with iOS 5 Beta (and also the SDK). Here are the features so far....

- Yes, you can identify people via e-mail or phone number.
- People in your list are identified by the device. If they also have an iDevice, you will see an icon showing this and anything sent to them will go through iMessage. If your contact is using a regular phone, you will also know this by an icon.
- For people with another iDevice, you will know if they are "online" and available.
- iMessage works over WiFi/3G so you can send unlimited texts without worrying about your carrier charging you for messages (the carriers probably don't like this). If sending to a "normal" phone, iMessage will use SMS.
- Of course, you can send texts, photos, videos, locations and contacts.
- Group messaging.
- Delivery and read receipts.
- You can tell when the other person is typing in real time.
- With iCloud, you can start a conversation on your iPhone and pick it up later on any other iDevice and it retains the continuity.
- Secure encryption of text messages.

In all, this is a huge upgrade for iPhone users.

DanHibiki

07-03-2011, 06:09 PM

Been playing around with iOS 5 Beta (and also the SDK). Here are the features so far....

- Yes, you can identify people via e-mail or phone number.
- People in your list are identified by the device. If they also have an iDevice, you will see an icon showing this and anything sent to them will go through iMessage. If your contact is using a regular phone, you will also know this by an icon.
- For people with another iDevice, you will know if they are "online" and available.
- iMessage works over WiFi/3G so you can send unlimited texts without worrying about your carrier charging you for messages (the carriers probably don't like this). If sending to a "normal" phone, iMessage will use SMS.
- Of course, you can send texts, photos, videos, locations and contacts.
- Group messaging.
- Delivery and read receipts.
- You can tell when the other person is typing in real time.
- With iCloud, you can start a conversation on your iPhone and pick it up later on any other iDevice and it retains the continuity.
- Secure encryption of text messages.

In all, this is a huge upgrade for iPhone users.

So if you wanted to add someone to talk to on iMessage without asking for their phone number, do you just make a new contact in the phone list with just the e-mail??

Also what if the other person has an iDevice but I want to send via SMS instead of data?

I have unlimited texts but 500mb data so I would like to use my text msgs instead at times

DanHibiki

07-03-2011, 06:18 PM

//posted twice

dangonay

07-03-2011, 07:17 PM

So if you wanted to add someone to talk to on iMessage without asking for their phone number, do you just make a new contact in the phone list with just the e-mail??

Also what if the other person has an iDevice but I want to send via SMS instead of data?

I have unlimited texts but 500mb data so I would like to use my text msgs instead at times
My understanding is that you can choose how to send the message. However, iOS 5 isn;t final so who knows what might change.

freakshow

07-03-2011, 07:45 PM

So if you wanted to add someone to talk to on iMessage without asking for their phone number, do you just make a new contact in the phone list with just the e-mail??

Yes. It works the same way currently if you want to FaceTime someone with an iPad or iPod Touch.

DanHibiki

07-03-2011, 07:49 PM

^Ahh. I always wondered how you would FT on a ipod or ipad.

Man I can't wait for iOS5. I dun even care if it won't be jailbroken right away, I'm updating!

taylor192

07-03-2011, 08:35 PM

I text a lot, and my battery can easily last me 2 days on heavy usage. Where as on the iphone, android and winmo I find that the battery is almost dead by 9pm, which I absolutely cannot stand.

IPhones and Androids feel like a toy more than a phone, sure you can download all those different games and apps, but to me, it doesn't do what a phone is supposed to do, have great battery life, reception and a good keyboard. Especially if you text a lot, the touchscreen keyboard on the iphone and android is a pain in the ass, even with Swype on the android, I type a lot of slang and I believe you have to go into swype and program all the slang words that you use, where as on the blackberry I don't have to program anything.
No offense it is funny to say BBs don't feel like toys then admit to txting a lot of slang :p

I programmed my BB with all the slang I used to improve typing of slang and swear words. I was pleasantly surprised to find that my nexus s had most swear words in the dictionary :D

dton13

07-03-2011, 08:36 PM

This debate can go on forever. I've written an article about this once, and I'll see what I can remember..

I have both an iPhone and a Berry. I'll try and put a different angle on it.

You can't argue with:
iPhone wins - Apps and browsing.
BB wins - E-mail, messaging, speed.

No question that iPhone wins on apps.

People can type exponentially faster on a tactile keyboard because we get used to the feel and location of the physical keys. Don't even wanna get started with iPhone's autocorrect.

BB's e-mail system is way more work-friendly. What blows me away is with all this intricate programming, an iPhone can't even "mark all e-mails as read."

These two things stuck out to me,

You do realize that BB still can't even get IMAP accounts working properly (wtf upwards of 1hr+ to sync gmail accounts?) and 45 min refresh rate for Exchange accounts unless you're on a BES server? No wonder corporates are moving away from RIM, that's a joke

I do admit I was way more fond of banging out emails on my berry vs iPhone or Android, but those two features alone made me laugh at anyone saying BB's EMAIL is their strength, much less "work-friendly"

RRxtar

07-03-2011, 09:29 PM

love how anything people say the BB is better for than the iphone, the iphone fanboys say "well the iphone5 will have something like it anyway"

its not fair to compare the current BBs to the future iphones anyway. guess what, BB Bold Touch 9900. that will even the playing field. theres no doubt the current BBs are 2 years behind. but the 9900 should bring them up to the same level of functionality of the competitors.

there are certain things BBs do that iphones dont, and they are usually some kind of integration. iphones may have a better camera, and better apps, but BBs bring the two together so much easier. like being able to send a picture from the camera app to your BBM or upload to facebook or email in one step, not have to close your current app and open the new one to send. the integration and shortcuts are what makes BBs work so well.

my buddy who is a huge iphone fanboy was playing with my 9700 on os6 yesterday and once he started figuring out the shortcuts he was really amazed.

and beyond that, i dont care if the iphone or android are a little better in a couple ways. BBs work fantastic for me, and i like them. we all dont buy the best car we can afford, we buy the one we like.

I honestly dont give a rats ass about music or youtube or games, so why should I buy a phone thats good at that, but inferior in the areas I use my phone (email, txt, , scheduling, msging, PHONE CALLS)?

Culverin

07-04-2011, 12:13 AM

lthere are certain things BBs do that iphones dont, and they are usually some kind of integration. iphones may have a better camera, and better apps, but BBs bring the two together so much easier. like being able to send a picture from the camera app to your BBM or upload to facebook or email in one step, not have to close your current app and open the new one to send. the integration and shortcuts are what makes BBs work so well.

Say WHAT? Are you saying that the native iphone camera app can't push-to-share with multiple services? I don't quite believe what you're saying... Cause my android was able to do that with 2.1 which is 2 OS versions behind, and it seems to keep track of all the apps install as well.

jmvdesign

07-04-2011, 07:20 AM

Say WHAT? Are you saying that the native iphone camera app can't push-to-share with multiple services? I don't quite believe what you're saying... Cause my android was able to do that with 2.1 which is 2 OS versions behind, and it seems to keep track of all the apps install as well.

My 2 year old HTC Hero had all these simple features way before the latest HTC Sense/Android updates. I can easily take a picture and push-to-share it to a number of apps (Bluetooth, Facebook, FlickR, Gmail, Picasa, Twitter, text messages and a variety of other email clients) instantly.

However, it's pretty sad how Apple, a proclaimed industry leader, is just phasing out their very own version of the LED/Notification Center feature that Android has had as a standard on their handsets.

Five iOS 5 Features Apple Copied From Android - International Business Times (http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/165852/20110620/ios-5-apple-android-google-twitter-notification-center-pc-free-steve-jobs.htm)

7seven

07-04-2011, 07:22 AM

I'm a Blackberry user for 4 main reasons, their keyboard/hardware, great for emails/work, bbm and durability. Personally, I could really care less about what apps that the Iphone or Android phones have better over Blackberry, I don't use my cell for games/entertainment. The few apps I have on my Berry, like stock trackers, sports updates, travel info work great on my Blackberry.

The native Blackberry contact book, calendar/scheduler is great for my needs. With the keyboard, I can deal with emails/text/bbm very quickly, personally I just hate typing on a touch screen keyboard and it slows me down. I also have a bad habit of dropping my cell phones, so far I've dropped my Torch close to 15 times, once from 3 stories and the phone still works perfectly fine. I've had friends knock their Iphones off the counter and the phone is dead.

gars

07-04-2011, 08:49 AM

!Yaminashi

07-04-2011, 10:27 AM

That was a good read.

Before they start worrying about developing better apps and all that other stuff, they need to focus on quality control if the management decides to seriously consider the points presented.

The absolute worst thing for me is having to use a phone that feels like it was put together by a 14 yr old in a back room of toys r us.

Creaky and clicking keyboards, metal trims, battery covers etc imo are NOT acceptable for a $500 phone.

That letter hit alot of good points, spend more time perfecting their product/software instead of shipping it out half-assed, listen to the consumers etc

How many of you have had a blackberry and had it freeze on you while you're working on something important? Its frustrating, whats even worse is having to wait 10 minutes for your phone to be usable again.

On my droid, I can turn my phone off and back on and be at full speed again in less than a minute

dangonay

07-04-2011, 12:53 PM

It's true, iOS only has "Email Photo", "Assign to Contact", "Use as Wallpaper" and "Print" (???). Don't even get me started on trying to email multiple photos with iOS.
You forgot to add MMS to that.

To e-mail multiple photos go to Camera Roll (album) click the share icon top right. Then click on as many pictures as you want and a little check mark appears on each thumbnail. At the bottom click "Share" and a popup lets you pick "Email" or "MMS".

iOS 5 will bring several changes since things like Twitter are now integrated right into the OS (instead of a separate App).

tool001

07-04-2011, 12:57 PM

well, i think the best part about bb is that is uses half data ,

DanHibiki

07-04-2011, 03:16 PM

You forgot to add MMS to that.

To e-mail multiple photos go to Camera Roll (album) click the share icon top right. Then click on as many pictures as you want and a little check mark appears on each thumbnail. At the bottom click "Share" and a popup lets you pick "Email" or "MMS".

iOS 5 will bring several changes since things like Twitter are now integrated right into the OS (instead of a separate App).

But the thing is you can only share 5 pictures max which is annoying.

I read somewhere that Facebook will also be integrated. It better be true. How can u integrate twitter and not the post popular social site ever? Lots of ppl post pics from their phones to fb more than twitter so it only makes sense.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

dangonay

07-04-2011, 05:46 PM

^ Yeah, 5 photo limit but that's never bothered me as I rarely send more than a couple pics at once. My phone is a casual picture taking device when I'm stuck without a real camera. I usually wait until I have a bunch of pictures and simply transfer them to my PC every now and then.

As to Facebook there are rumors of bit of a fight (disagreement) between Apple and Facebook (specifcally Jobs and Facebook). Hard to say if it's true or not. WP7 did integrate Facebook and so did Google with Android. Then again, Google just stuck a knife in the back of Facebook with Google+ so who knows how they'll be working together in the future.

Ah, all these whiny little billionaires who can't get along. :)

DanHibiki

07-04-2011, 05:55 PM

^ All they need is an "attach photo" button to the e-mail app.

Many times I find myself typing up an email and then deciding to attach a photo to it.

LiquidTurbo

07-04-2011, 05:58 PM

http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/smartphone/10.png

Bonka

07-04-2011, 06:00 PM

Hahahahaha so true.

Every smartphone thread eventually gets derailed :fullofwin:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

trancehead

07-04-2011, 06:07 PM

Hahahahaha so true.

Every smartphone thread eventually gets derailed :fullofwin:
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Easier to put things into perspective with a rival product

DanHibiki

07-04-2011, 06:51 PM

Is there already an iPhone Vs. Blackberry Vs. Android thread? If not we should make one.

StaxBundlez

07-04-2011, 09:06 PM

I love my berry..

bengy

07-05-2011, 12:42 PM

Blackberry for communicating.
iPhone for procrastinating.

unit

07-05-2011, 12:51 PM

that comic is true for anything not just phones.
ps3 vs xbox
stupid engine arguments such as 1.8t vs vr6
mac vs pc

you're probably not qualified to argue any of these unless you've owned and used both extensively. otherwise you're just defending your purchase.

Psykopathik

07-06-2011, 07:13 AM

iphone with slide out keyboard = death for all other phone makers

gars

07-06-2011, 09:06 AM

iphone with slide out keyboard = death for all other phone makers

we can talk about "what-ifs" all day - but you know and i know that iphone with keyboard would never happen. And honestly, the physical keyboard isn't the only thing that is missing from an iPhone. iOS is still missing many features from other OS's.

unit

07-06-2011, 10:27 AM

the physical keyboard isnt missing from an iphone.
physical keyboards are backwards technology.
touch screen is here to stay.

taylor192

07-06-2011, 10:36 AM

iphone with slide out keyboard = death for all other phone makers

Nope. I asked around and more of my coworkers are on Android than iPhones. Cheaper, faster, more configurable with different HW options.

The latest stats confirm it too, Android has leap frogged everyone to ~40% market share while BB has dipped slightly below iOS at ~25% each.

dangonay

07-06-2011, 12:16 PM

^ Funny how people have those stories. At work out of 22 people there are 2 iPhone 3GS's, 3 BB's, 1 Galaxy, 8 iPhone 4's and the rest are plain ordinary phones. 2 of the BB users are planning on getting the iPhone 5, the 3GS users are also getting 5's and several 4's are planning on 5's.

Android does have the market share, but a lot of those aren't even full-on smartphones. I got my mom an Android phone and it's not even as good as an iPhone 3G.

Every Android phone is not a Galaxy II S or similar.
Posted via RS Mobile (http://www.revscene.net/forums/announcement.php?a=228)

Nabatron

07-06-2011, 12:35 PM

Blackberry is dropping it market share due to.........................slow ass processors in their devices, shitty os, app market non exsistent, the whole phone line is made up of cheap materials which fall apart...out of the box mm bb 9780 bezel was completely falling apart at the sides on my second bb 9780 and its doing the same thing, not to mention the bezel is made up of cheap plastic.

Another reason for the drop would be their release dates are atrocious and try to compete with well known companies such as Apple. They first debuted their piece of shit playbook in Sept '10 and promoting it as essentially an ipad killer...then finally officially released the playbook to the consumer base in May '11 how the fuck due wait that long to release a product and then when consumers actually want to buy it they moved on to a different product. The playbook has bugs and lag up the ass and is just garbage.

q0192837465

07-06-2011, 12:41 PM

Blackberry was the "cool" phone back then so those fanboyz and girlz get them. But seriously, how many of them really need a blackberry? Yes, the blackberry is great for business, but how many of the current blackberry users really use it for business purposes. Right now the iPhone is the new "cool" phone and thats why I think people who never really needed a blackberry in the first place are switching, resulting in a declining market share. I'm sure those who actually use a blackberry for its functions will continue using it. Those who just wanna be like everyone else will get the iPhone or Android or whatever the next "cool" thing is.

6insomnia9

07-06-2011, 12:43 PM

a letter from the outer space: why developing apps for BlackBerry ? « ekkes-corner: eclipse | osgi | mdsd | erp | mobile (http://ekkescorner.wordpress.com/2011/07/04/a-letter-from-the-outer-space-why-developing-apps-for-blackberry/)

bcrdukes

07-06-2011, 01:22 PM

I honestly dont give a rats ass about music or youtube or games, so why should I buy a phone thats good at that, but inferior in the areas I use my phone (email, txt, , scheduling, msging, PHONE CALLS)?

This. Blackberry still has a nice phone feel to it. The iPhone doesn't.

Not interested in apps. Just want a device that will let me do business efficiently without the bells and whistles. Oh, and make phone calls like a normal person.

6insomnia9

07-06-2011, 01:35 PM

^ /Thread.

gars

07-06-2011, 01:50 PM

Blackberry is dropping it market share due to.........................slow ass processors in their devices, shitty os, app market non exsistent, the whole phone line is made up of cheap materials which fall apart...out of the box mm bb 9780 bezel was completely falling apart at the sides on my second bb 9780 and its doing the same thing, not to mention the bezel is made up of cheap plastic.

I don't know why people want that metal edge and glass screen on the iPhone 4. Sure, it looks great, but is impractical. In my company, two of my coworkers dropped their iPhone 4's the first day they gave them out. Not even a big drop, but a small one, maybe a foot or two feet off the ground, and crack goes the glass. I'm a little more careful with my iPhone so thank god, it hasn't cracked yet.

My BB on the other hand may be made of "cheap plastic" but at least I know that if I've dropped it (I have a few times), it won't break right away. I'm sorry, I understand that electronics are fragile, but phones aren't TV's - they don't just sit there on a stand, they're carried around in a pocket or purse all day - they shouldn't break so easily when you don't have a monster otterbox case around it, which makes the phone twice the size.

taylor192

07-06-2011, 02:23 PM

^ Funny how people have those stories.
Stories aside, market share stats don't like. Android is far ahead now, and iOS has leveled off for the past year, and even dipped a bit.

taylor192

07-06-2011, 02:30 PM

This. Blackberry still has a nice phone feel to it. The iPhone doesn't.

Not interested in apps. Just want a device that will let me do business efficiently without the bells and whistles. Oh, and make phone calls like a normal person.
I completely agreed with you and had a BB8900... until I got a Nexus S. I rarely used apps, mocked my friends who had 100s of apps which were mostly useless, and generally was happy with the few BB apps I used... then I realized I didn't use many BB apps cause they sucked, and not all the apps were useless crap my friends download.

I've modded my Android phone with many widgets that provide me all the info I want at a swipe of my finger. My BB never did that, despite being the "business" device which should be able to display the information I want, how I want it, when I want it.

Oh, and call quality is fantastic. :D The phone is slimmer and longer, so it feels more like a "phone" than my BB ever did. BBs are too short and fat, always felt odd using it as a phone.

!Yaminashi

07-06-2011, 02:43 PM

Those who just wanna be like everyone else will get the iPhone or Android or whatever the next "cool" thing is.

This isnt entirely true, I got an android because of what it's capable of.
Dont like something on it? It can be changed. Need an app to do something? Download one.

How cool people think I am was the last thing on my mind when I made the jump

jmvdesign

07-06-2011, 02:50 PM

Stories aside, market share stats don't like. Android is far ahead now, and iOS has leveled off for the past year, and even dipped a bit.

It also doesn't help how Apple is just now adopting 2 year old features from Android (notification/message center). Why they won't add customization features like widgets is beyond me.

taylor192

07-06-2011, 03:12 PM

It also doesn't help how Apple is just now adopting 2 year old features from Android (notification/message center). Why they won't add customization features like widgets is beyond me.

The main thing I like about Android is the widgets. I liked my BB home screen where I could have previews of my calendar, msgs, emails, ... and that's one thing that kept me from an iPhone. I love my calendar staring me in the face, otherwise I forget things after I dismiss reminders.

With widgets I can have all that and more! Hell I even put all the widgets on my lock screen so I don't even have to unlock my phone to see my calendar or notifications.

I was inspired by this:

http://img54.xooimage.com/files/8/6/d/atrix-2627b4a.jpg

and this:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Tyclo/EVO/EVO-Body-Trans-8-1-10.gif

DanHibiki

07-06-2011, 04:13 PM

RRxtar

07-06-2011, 05:09 PM

I completely agreed with you and had a BB8900... until I got a Nexus S. I rarely used apps, mocked my friends who had 100s of apps which were mostly useless, and generally was happy with the few BB apps I used... then I realized I didn't use many BB apps cause they sucked, and not all the apps were useless crap my friends download.

I've modded my Android phone with many widgets that provide me all the info I want at a swipe of my finger. My BB never did that, despite being the "business" device which should be able to display the information I want, how I want it, when I want it.

Oh, and call quality is fantastic. :D The phone is slimmer and longer, so it feels more like a "phone" than my BB ever did. BBs are too short and fat, always felt odd using it as a phone.

youre comparing an entry level 8900 curve that was released in early 2008 probably running os4.5 to a brand new top of the heep nexus s?

ya, 2011 F350s are cooler than 97 F150s too but thats a shitty comparison.

dangonay

07-06-2011, 06:30 PM

Stories aside, market share stats don't like. Android is far ahead now, and iOS has leveled off for the past year, and even dipped a bit.
Sure Android is ahead. To the tune of about 500,000 activations per day compared to about 300,000-325,000 for iOS. However, you ignored my comment about the type of Android devices. Not all of those 500,000 devices are "Steaks", rather they are "Big Macs".

It also doesn't help how Apple is just now adopting 2 year old features from Android (notification/message center). Why they won't add customization features like widgets is beyond me.
I'm curious, do you own an iPhone? If you do, then I can see being upset that features like Notifications or iMessage took so long to hit iOS.

If you don't own an iPhone, then why does it matter if they got the features late?

DanHibiki

07-06-2011, 07:38 PM

http://www.revscene.net/forums/mobile-phone-chat/649193-android-vs-ios-vs-blackberry.html

I made a new thread for these debates.

taylor192

07-06-2011, 09:34 PM

youre comparing an entry level 8900 curve that was released in early 2008 probably running os4.5 to a brand new top of the heep nexus s?

ya, 2011 F350s are cooler than 97 F150s too but thats a shitty comparison.
oh so you know fuck all about BBs then. You can upgrade the os to the latest, so your comparison is stupid at best. even with the latest os the apps still suck, and its not the speed, its the shitty apps themselves.

taylor192

07-06-2011, 09:39 PM

However, you ignored my comment about t3e type of Android devices. Not all of those 500,000 devices are "Steaks", rather they are "Big Macs".
Who cares? apple is about to start giving away iphone 3s to get more market share with people only wanting entry level phones. So even apple thinks your argument is stupid.:p

6insomnia9

07-06-2011, 09:41 PM

People dont buy BBs for APPS.

I dont even use apps on my BBs, they are just bonuses that come with phones.

Iphones and Andriods are nothing without their apps.

The only app i ever use is Google Maps and it is the only app i need.

Lets just say this BUY A BLACKBERRY IF YOU HAVE BUSINESS RELATED SHIT TO DO.

IF NOT BUY A IPHONE/ANDRIOD , ENOUGH SAID

Sticking with blackberry until the end of time.

gars

07-06-2011, 09:50 PM

I have to say though, the one app that I really do use IS google maps.

AND

the best device with it is Android. Not all android devices have access to the latest Google Maps though, but those top ones, man, they're insane. Loads up so much faster than any iOS or BB device. Plus, they have an offline mode that will store the most frequently looked up locations.

SlySi

07-07-2011, 03:57 PM

BB user for over 5 years now.
I switched to Iphone and Android.
Loved both of them. Had to go back to BB though. Just felt more practical.

My likes of BB are a solid keyboard, durable built phone, simple LED, reading and writing email was much simpler.

Fast forward to today.
I am on the edge.
If I dont get a fast CPU, swift touch screen, quality built phone within months.
I have no choice but to jump ship soon.

Common BB user "I dont need the apps". I am a business user.
If you truly are a business user. Its time to adapt and evolve.
Blackberry clearly isnt. With their useless "BES Tax System", lack of innovation, badly managed corporation, upsetting Telecom's and of course clients.
Its time to move on.

Apps and widgets are only getting better and growing at a remarkable pace.
Some of the most amazing tools are in the APP store for Android and Iphone.
Learn to use and adapt to this phenomenon.

BB is legacy. Their new OS may help them. Unfortunately new OS might not be enough.
BES is hated. Its not wanted. This BES subcription fee is what makes RIMM profitable.
With corporations jumping off BES.
RIMM could be in some serious trouble.

Once a great innovative Canadian company. Now its a desperate company trying to catch up.

If I had to chose a phone.
I would say Iphone.
Since Im a true believer of Open source and so should EVERYONE.
My next phone will be a Droid.

goo3

07-08-2011, 01:00 AM

To be fair to RIM, Apple and Google aren't exactly chumps.

Culverin

07-08-2011, 04:05 PM

Wait a sec... they are releasing it later this year and it's ONLY a single core?
New pictures of BlackBerry Touch Monza leak - GSMArena.com news (http://www.gsmarena.com/new_pictures_of_blackberry_touch_monza_leak_reveal _nothing_new-news-2867.php)

Won't the iphone 5 come out by then being a double? There are even low-clocked androids that are dual core now.
:failed:

6insomnia9

07-08-2011, 04:22 PM

http://techfibe.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/upcoming-blackberry.jpg