REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

the_rickster · 09-09-2008, 10:50 AM

these boys would likely stay here their whole careers as long as they got treated and paid fairly. gillis made a mistake by specifically calling their names during his conference, he made a mistake by communicating with lu right from the get-go and here we are months later and these guys are set to talk for the FIRST time. in all this time since gillis got hired jp barry has been conversing with the guys and likely telling them that vancouver isn't the end all be all. my guess is that barry isn't a huge gillis fan, didn't like what gillis said during that first presser and has spent the last few months on damage control trying to figure out the route. by saying that if nonis was still the gm the boys would be signed, is a huge slap in the face to gillis and also draws me to my conclusion that unless we do actually build the team around the sedins (as far as money goes) they'll likely sign elsewere.

AzNightmare · 09-09-2008, 11:06 AM

This is going to be interesting.
How much are they going to ask for? 5mil? 6mil each?
The interesting thing I can think of here is that are they going to produce
equivalent to 1 superstar player who will be making less than the sum of their
combined salary.

I guess what I'm trying to say, or what a lot of people say, is are they both individual superstars or are they a superstar force when put together.

the_rickster · 09-09-2008, 11:24 AM

its true. you cant argue "well they both put up 60+ point seasons" because they're assisting each other's goals.

the question really comes down to whether or not the team values the productivity the pair can put up, since that's how they come. if you decide to not resign them, you need to fill in the spots left vacant. whether you do it with a 8-9m marquee player and a 3-4m playmaker, or you spend the 10-12m on three guys, you're back at the same starting point, just with different faces... so why not continue to invest in the guys who have a proven track record in our market.

if i was gillis, it'd be one of my top priorities to get burrows, edler & sedins signed to long term deals this year, mitchell (hopefully) & kesler next year and see what happens with luongo over this season and part of next.

Roach · 09-09-2008, 12:39 PM

^ Agreed. Right now the Sedins are a major piece of the Canucks identity. I would like them to stay here.

Kev

stuff99 · 09-09-2008, 12:51 PM

As hockey players and as brothers, Daniel and Henrik Sedin do everything together.

But this year they travelled to Vancouver separately to get ready for training camp. Daniel arrived in town last week because his daughter had to start school early, while Henrik arrived on Monday. They still plan to play their entire career together, but the question is, where?

There will be a lot of questions revolving around the Canucks' twin bill on and off the ice this season. Both players have taken their knocks for not stepping up their game the way the team and its fans expect them to, and both are set to become unrestricted free agents next summer.

With that in mind, has their strength improved for this season?

Are they ready to be front line players?

Can they get it done in the playoffs, if they even get there?

Will this be their last season in Vancouver?

For both Sedins, the main objective is simple and all-encompassing. "Our goal here is to make the playoffs and if we can do that, we're happy," explained Daniel. "Our focus is to make the playoffs and if we do that, everything else will take care of itself."

Both veterans return to a Canucks club that has made drastic changes over the summer. New general manager Mike Gillis brought in free agent Pavol Demitra and winger Steve Bernier to cover the loss of Markus Naslund and Brendan Morrison to free agency. The team also added some character players in forwards Darcy Hordichuk and Ryan Johnson and defenceman Rob Davison.

The Sedin brothers were impressed with summer's turnaround and hope it sparks the club towards a playoff run next spring. "It's looking pretty good," Daniel told TSN. "These guys are hard working and it's really going to be a lot of fun."

The moves also puts more pressure on the twins to generate more offence, but Daniel and Henrik aren't worried about that as long as other elements work in the team's favour as well. "We still have to focus more on defence," explained Daniel. "But I think we have the best in the league if you look at our top six to seven guys. Of course, we have the best goalie in the world too, so that's going to be our focus. But if we score a few more goals, it will be an interesting season."

When Gillis took over as general manager, he said he didn't know if the Sedins would be players the team will be built around moving forward. With his current lack of options up, that position may have changed as the pair will find out when they meet Gillis for the first time on Wednesday.

"I don't really buy into that comment a whole lot," Henrik told reporters regarding Gillis' statement. "He wanted to have something to say, he didn't have any names he wanted to build the team around, so we're going to see him tomorrow and see where we are."

Up until this point, the Sedins' agent J.P. Barry has been unwilling to open contract negotiations. But Barry will also be at the meeting, so it is expected that some discussion on an extension will take place.

"We'll see what happens," said Daniel. "It's two weeks until training camp and if nothing happens, that's fine too. We'll look at it the same way."

It will likely take six to $6.5 million to sign each player, and will be hard for Gillis to low-ball the pair, given the $10 million he he has on the table for Mats Sundin - a player who has fewer points than both Sedins over the past two seasons.

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=248963&l...s=secStory_nhl

stuff99 · 09-09-2008, 12:52 PM

It's easy to forget that they both are top tier players. Like it or not, Joe Thornton has similiar questions about his game.

Ronin · 09-09-2008, 01:01 PM

$6m each isn't bad given the salaries being handed out in the new NHL. $6.5 is probably what they'll get. Hopefully for...3-4 years? I don't think I'd want to sign the Sedins til they're 40 like AO or Lecavalier.

the_rickster · 09-09-2008, 01:24 PM

daniel was just on the radio saying if it comes down to dollars they'd take a bit of a discount to stay in vancouver.

they want terms and respect. long term deal with an ntc.

Ronin · 09-09-2008, 01:30 PM

Props to them for having such loyalty even though they get hung out to dry so much in this city.

I'd love to see them stay but not for an excessively long term. They still haven't been playoff performers and although they're durable, I think they get tired down the stretch.

the_rickster · 09-09-2008, 01:34 PM

a team that doesn't have much playoff experience is bound to get tired down the stretch. thats the problem.

scheng924 · 09-09-2008, 02:58 PM

i wonder if gillis will do anything in the next month or so

Hondaracer · 09-09-2008, 03:02 PM

i'd put money down that they sign contract for under 6 mill each

and even if they do want 6-6.5 we would be retarded not to sign them, a debate wether the sedins are worth that money is completely irrelevent imo because no way in hell are u getting point a game players for that price tag anywhere else in the league.

Ronin · 09-09-2008, 03:06 PM

80+ point players cost that much. There are plenty of guys in the league that score less and get paid more. The Sedins were in...what...the top 20 in league scoring?

the_rickster · 09-09-2008, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronin

80+ point players cost that much. There are plenty of guys in the league that score less and get paid more. The Sedins were in...what...the top 20 in league scoring?

damn close, anyways.

something like 70% of the top 30 scorers last season averaged 1pt/gm or more. every single one of them has either a long term deal (over 5 years), makes a shitload of money or both, with the exception being zetterberg and malkin.

basically, we're going to have to give those guys around 6.5-7m and its going to be 4-5 years.

Hondaracer · 09-09-2008, 03:42 PM

^ the only 80 point players getting under 6 mill a season are ones that signed contracts before said seasons.

the_rickster · 09-09-2008, 03:53 PM

exactly. and jp barry is smart enough to not bring up those guys' names in negotiations

stuff99 · 09-10-2008, 01:42 AM

they better not lose the sedins...

i still hated how gillis knocked on them and nonis on his first presser as gm.

hes not doing much better than nonis IMO

stuff99 · 09-10-2008, 01:44 AM

It is possible that the 2009-2010 Vancouver Canucks lineup will be minus three key players: Mathias Ohlund, and Daniel and Henrik Sedin.

The Sedin's future with the Canucks won't be determined anytime soon, unless Canucks general manager Mike Gillis is granted the authority to give the twins what they want, as the duo can become unrestricted free agents at the end of the season.

Neither Daniel, nor Henrik is contractually protected from trade, so that threat exists and will surely be addressed if the Sedin's are to agree to a long-term extension, or a hometown discount that is unlikely to dip below $6 million per season.

Without a no-trade, or no-movement clause the 27-year old brothers will likely play the waiting game in favor of unrestricted free agency were some believe the market may top $7 million dollars for each.

Meanwhile, veteran defenseman Mathias Ohlund's future with the Canucks will also be discussed during Wednesday's meeting between Gillis and Ohlund's agent, J.P. Barry.

Ohlund's contract expires at the end of the season and while his existing deal is armed with a no-trade, his name along with teammate Kevin Bieksa has popped up in trade rumors throughout the summer.

Sources say Ohlund wants to stay in Vancouver, but he may re-consider his options if negotiations to extend his term don't go according to plan.

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/darren_dreger/?id=248978

Harvey Specter · 09-10-2008, 01:48 AM

I hope the Sedins stay because imo it would be a big mistake to let them leave.

stuff99 · 09-10-2008, 01:58 AM

Twins take a stand ahead of sit-down
Forwards want no-trade clause included in next contract

Ben Kuzma
The Province

Wednesday, September 10, 2008

The trade-off is a no-trade clause.

In return for less than market value in the first year of multi-year contract extensions, Henrik Sedin wants the professionalism and production that he and twin brother Daniel have provided the Vancouver Canucks to be rewarded with peace of mind.

And while money and term are important, a no-trade clause is imperative.

"We would like to have that for sure," Henrik stressed Tuesday in advance of today's dinner meeting with general manager Mike Gillis and agent J.P. Barry.

"We want to be here long-term. Our families love it here, and we like it here, so that's something we really want to have.

"We'll never be players who'll take the last dollar to stay here. If it's a little bit less, we'll take it."

So there you have it. The line in the negotiation sand has been drawn, although Henrik stressed there's no rush to reach a contract conclusion. And if Gillis doesn't choke on no-trade talk

during the first dinner course, it should make for productive conversation because money and term will probably be easier for the GM to digest.

"There's no question, if you look at all these deals with free agents of this magnitude, no-trade clauses are a really important part of the discussion," Barry said of the twins, who can become unrestricted free agents July 1.

"Generally, in these deals you see a pretty standard term ... in the range of four to seven years. We'll look across the spectrum of comparables, and they're from $5 to $7 million (US) if the player is staying with his team or going to another."

With $3.575 million remaining on the final year of their identical contracts, the Sedins are underpaid by performance standards. Henrik and Daniel had 76 and 74 points respectively last season, and where you start them off in an extension will be open to great debate.

Gillis didn't return a call from The Province on Tuesday, but numbers for the Sedins aren't hard to figure.

The 80-point club last season included Mike Ribeiro ($5-million cap hit this season), Martin St. Louis ($5.2 M) and Ryan Getzlaf ($5.3 M). While their roles on respective clubs vary, you can point to any of those figures as a good starting point for the Sedins. Or, you can suggest that the six-year, $33-million extension that Shawn Horcoff signed in July -- a cap hit of $5.5 million commencing in 2009-2010 -- may or may not be enough to seal the deal. The Edmonton centre's cap hit this season is $3.6 million.

A look at the last three seasons is another compelling argument to retain the Sedins and cough up no-trade clauses. Henrik has compiled 75, 81 and 76 points the past three campaigns and was fourth in assists last season with 61. Daniel had 71,84 and 74 points, while Horcoff had 73, 51 and just 29 points last season in 53 games because of injury. Over 82 games, he would have had 44 points.

Yes, the laid-back Swedes may not be dynamic Canadian-born, blood-and-guts guys who ooze leadership. But the bottom line is they are models of consistency, durable and only now entering the prime of their respective careers. They turn 28 on Sept. 26.

Let's be honest. Trying to lure talent here to play in the top-six forward group has never been easy. Factor in the team, the travel, style of play, cap space, poor drafting and Gillis has only landed former client Pavol Demitra. He even tried to woo Mats Sundin with a two-year, $20-million pitch.

Regardless, the Sundin uncertainty may also work in the Sedins' favour to land no-trade clauses. After all, the Sedins in hand are better than a Sundin in hiatus.

Henrik also took the high road Tuesday when reminded that Gillis considered the Sedins front-line players, but added: "I don't know if they are players the team will be built around going forward."

Even though the Sedins have yet to meet him, Henrik isn't riled by Gillis's remarks.

"I really didn't buy into that comment a whole lot," said Henrik. "It was a few days after he took over, and he wanted to have something to say and didn't want to put any names out that he wanted to build the team around.

"He's had the summer, and now we'll talk and see where we are in his plans."

Stay tuned.
© The Vancouver Province 2008

trdees · 09-10-2008, 09:44 AM

So when are the sedins and ohlund meeting with gillis? I was expecting it to be this morning

the_rickster · 09-10-2008, 09:54 AM

i dont know when ohlund is meeting, but the sedins are tonight.

by the way, this doesn't mean we're going to get any kind of results or gratification. this city is starved for hockey news so this is the big thing, when it really happens quite regularly.

hotjoint · 09-10-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trdees

So when are the sedins and ohlund meeting with gillis? I was expecting it to be this morning

dinner meeting - Sedin's
Ohlund - not sure

trdees · 09-10-2008, 10:02 AM

I just thought of something, if we sign the sedins on a extension for say 6 mil a year EACH, and if we did sign suckdickdin wouldnt we be over the cap next season by 6 mil?

the_rickster · 09-10-2008, 10:08 AM

the sedins already have a contract for this season, so their new contract would kick in against the cap for the 09/10 season.

we dont have to worry about 09/10 salary commitments until.... you guessed it, this time next year. PLUS, we have a potential 13 UFAs (counting sedins) and 5 RFAs at the end of this season, and only $26m commited, so finding cap space shouldn't be a concern.