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The thin line between love and hate
Mature discussion about understanding the opposite sex...

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Old 12-18-2008, 08:00 PM   #1
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I just don't understand her sometimes. </friend circle>

Revsceners, I know you guys have some pretty wicked ideas and bad-ass suggestions, as it helped me fix some relationships in the past... but this is one big door-crasher scenario that I can't solve for myself... You guys got to hear me out again.

In the past, I became the desperate one and got mad at her just because of some stupid issue, and she totally blocked me off all communication for half a year. During this phase, I regretted the fact that I was desperate for her, and pushed her too much into realizing that I had gone too far, and vowed not to push myself into wanting more from her.

Fortunately, I got back together again (long story), and ever since then, I've been holding back because I've been too scared not to lose her again. During dinner, my question to her somehow became dating. Luckily, she seemed somewhat comfortable that I brought up this discussion (meaning, signs of interest, and no "Can we talk about something else?" line.).

Recently, I've been connecting with her more frequently. Things such as talking on the phone from time to time, going out to eat, watching movies at home, occasional text. Play guitar and sing together. Just like a friend would, right? Next week, we've got dinner at my house, and the Train at Stanley Park... just us... oh i'm so lost right now.

She won't even call this a relationship. I'm currently in her friend circle, but I want to put this friend circle into something more. However, she won't let me. There has been many times where I made my flirtacious moves, such as putting her arm around her while taking strolls around parks, frolicking in the snow / snowfights... but every single one, she has shut me down in ways that she leaves me in her friend circle and nothing more. (like moving away just when I put my arm around her, etc.) Let me say more.

She also has a lot of guy friends, as to how I have a lot of girl friends; however, she seems to be more connected to her guy friends a lot more than how I'm connected to my girl friends. Things such as talking to guys, seeing other guys, hanging out with them when i'm not around. And for some reason, I'm feeling a bit insecure when she is interrupted by boys during our hangout session or when she mentions that she's going to hang out with another guy the next day.

Dinner? We sit across from each other, not beside each other.
Movie at home? We sit on different couches. It's always her call. Even though I take my initiative and go for the same couch thing, she sends me to the other. She pushes me back in ways that i've kinda given up on moving towards relationship and instead staying within her friend circle where she's the most comfortable. I gave up because the harder I try, the more she will see me as a desperate person. (and I don't want to lose her again). I believe she also knows that I am willing to commit my time to her because of my physical attraction towards her and the kinds of similarities we both share together.

This is where I had to watch what I would have to say because again, I didn't want to sound desperate.

She stated how relationships these days are dull, and that "It's like any other high school relationships" where its only a one side thing. Such example is where one person really likes someone, and the other responds to a liking, and bam, they're together. She mentioned that true love comes from both sides of the party having feeling of each other, not just one side.

Question 1 is: Would you agree with her? What, in your opinion, would love mean?

Question 2 is: If you were to show show her how committing and how much respect you would be able to provide for her in order to get out of that friend circle, what would you do?

Question 3 is: Would you rather let go and remain in the same friend circle that you always will be in, or would you rather continue being the nice guy you are right now?

Please, serious responses, and no "put it up the butt" answers.

Regards,

Nintensity

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Old 12-18-2008, 08:16 PM   #2
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hmmmm trickey...

you try to take a step in...she takes a step away....

well...if the conditions are right, when you go to the train at stanely park...i say go for a walk...play in the snow...playfully tackle her to the ground (just so you can get close to her) and just stare at her...then go for the kiss....if she takes it, consider that friend circle being gone soon...if she rejects it....might be best to just suck up your losses and move on...

as for your questions...

1) cant answer that...
2) couldnt answer that as well...
3) if i couldnt be WITH her in a relationship...id rather still hang around her..hopefully she'll eventually see what you see..


sorry im not much help haha
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:19 PM   #3
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Question 1:

I don't think that true love is defined or determined when both sides of the party share feelings towards each other. Rather true love is when one person is willing to do or sacrifice anything for that one person that they care about. Things that they would not do for anyone else (parents excluded), true love need not be reciprocated and does not need to be shared by both people.

Question 2:

To honestly answer this question you need to assess the situation. To show her how committed you are to her and to show how much you respect her you have to be able to respect what she wants and desires - even if this does not include you. Touching on the subject of true love, if you really care and want to be with this person you have to be able to respect their wishes.

Yet in the mean time you can't get stuck in the friend zone, I believe that you are on the right path of showing her that you are willing and capable to give it your all to her while respecting her wishes. Although it is an extremely difficult process if it works out for the best then you know that there is something special, if not then would you prefer that someone that you care for not be in your life even as a friend? I would continue to support her whether or not I agreed with the situation, although I would let my opinions and feelings be heard - because ultimately if you want to be with her as more than a friend you have to show that you care and make your presence known.

Question 3:

This question can honestly only be answered by you. People here are going to give conflicting answers and suggestions to you; but in the end the choice is yours. Look at it this way, you have such strong feelings for this person and care for them quite a bit. Would your rather have this person leave your life, or would you rather have this person a part of your life albeit as a friend - but remaining in your life.

Good luck with the situation.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:24 PM   #4
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After reading all that, the first words that popped up into my head was
"Move on"

Hey, you never know, if you move on and show you're not into her anymore she'll come running to you
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:34 PM   #5
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hmmm this sounds very very similar to what i'm going through right now, the more u want her, the more she stays away from u. sometimes i think that maybe i'll just suck it up and be friends with her just so she's happy and not try to distance herself from me.

sigh i know how it feels. good luck to u.
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Old 12-18-2008, 08:43 PM   #6
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1.) as far as i think there is no such thing as love just oen person who likes the person more then the other. but i think that cause im cynical. she probably thinks it because she got burned. doesnt want to get burned again. easy concept, hard everything else.

2.) wouldnt do it. cant force myself to show my emotion for a girl that doesnt want to hear it. if she doesnt want you, then honestly, fuck her. im sure you like her a lot but honestly, she is probably dime a dozen. just like you. just like me.

3.) getting out of the friend zone and making a good re-first impression is key. what I gather from what you said is that she feels bored and in a rut with you. she has more fun with you then other people, but thats not saying much in her eyes. not a shot against you, she could just be impossible to please. id back off for another 6 months. and if you still care, then try again then.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:17 PM   #7
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There is absolutely no way this will work if she has no interest in you. You can't force someone to have feelings for you. Move on
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:20 PM   #8
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sounds like there isn't really a chance for you there
i might be wrong
but seems like you might have to move on and just live with the fact that she'll just be a friend
its tough buddy, i've been through it plenty of times
but you gotta know when its a lost cause
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:43 PM   #9
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as hard as it sounds - moving on might be the right choice here.
make yourself less available to her - if she initiates on more than one occasion then u might have a chance - but considering what you've said - she's beyond that.

sounds like a chick i know.
anyone remember Jane?
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:42 AM   #10
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Question 1:
To each their own. Everyone goes through different experiences to find love. Her definition may not be someone else's, but it's her take on it. Gives you a little insight as to what to expect from her.

Question 2:
I wouldn't try to force anything. If she ain't feeling it, she ain't feeling it. Just take it as you go.

Question 3:
Never burn your bridges unless it's worth tearing down.
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:01 AM   #11
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Agreed. move on, dont force it like it seems like you've been doing. Stay in her friends circle but dont keep as close as you've been.

I sorta agree with her, true love should be when both parties have feelings for each other. But I also believe feelings develop over time if you're with someone. I mean if a person doesnt have any feelings for the one chasing them but you start dating them for the hell of it then u get to know them and realize how great they are Bam He loves her, She loves him.
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Old 12-19-2008, 07:52 AM   #12
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Your actions scream "I am the type of guy that girls like you DON'T date." Ignore any words she says and pay attention to the subtext.

Allow me to put things through the patented DaFonz Lingotastic Translator

Quote:
relationships these days are dull
is translated into

Quote:
The thought of being in a relationship with you is dull because I know you're going to do everything I want anyways. The next time some attractive guy comes along, i'm going to drop my panties for him before you have a chance to say "WTF bitch? YOU KNEW I LIKED YOU"
1) That's irrelevant. What is relevant is your ability to generate attraction in her. Thus far, you have failed miserably.

2) Wrong approach. By doing things for her, you're reducing your intrinsic value which makes you less attractive.

3) Isn't that the same thing? Girls do not like doormats. Repeat after me: I will not be a doormat.

To help you visualize, I'm going to explain things in terms of the battle of Thermopylae.

Right now, you're Ephialtes, the deformed Spartan who no one wants to be with so he has to betray his people to have enough money to buy women.

You want to be King Leonidas - the badass motherfucker who hooks up with all the hunnies and knows how to kick some persian ass.

Here's how a conversation might go
Quote:
You: Hey, let's go do something fun. Let's play a game.
Her (playing along): Oh fun I like games!
You: Ok, this is called 300. So how it works is this,... on second thought, let's just make out.
Her: I'm not so sure that's a good idea...
You: Do you think this is a democracy bitch? THIS IS.. SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAA
*make out*
Do you want to be the guy who has to pay for a woman's company or the badass motherfucker who women WANT to be with?
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Old 12-19-2008, 08:32 AM   #13
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In how many different ways do you expect a girl to reject you? Sorry bud she's not in that place, not even close to the place you are. Doesn't have any plans to go there and is thinking how she can get even further from that place.

She's even told you what she thinks is wrong with you and her... "another highschool relationship where one likes another and BAM together." She's not responding to your feelings and is not going to become "BAM" another couple. That is her way of saying- just because you like me doesn't mean it's going to happen. Get over it or she'll push you further away. Forget the other couch... she won't even get together to watch a movie.
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:25 AM   #14
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Right now, you're Ephialtes, the deformed Spartan who no one wants to be with so he has to betray his people to have enough money to buy women.
lol what in the fuck....
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Old 12-19-2008, 09:28 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DaFonz View Post
Your actions scream "I am the type of guy that girls like you DON'T date." Ignore any words she says and pay attention to the subtext.

Allow me to put things through the patented DaFonz Lingotastic Translator



is translated into



1) That's irrelevant. What is relevant is your ability to generate attraction in her. Thus far, you have failed miserably.

2) Wrong approach. By doing things for her, you're reducing your intrinsic value which makes you less attractive.

3) Isn't that the same thing? Girls do not like doormats. Repeat after me: I will not be a doormat.

To help you visualize, I'm going to explain things in terms of the battle of Thermopylae.

Right now, you're Ephialtes, the deformed Spartan who no one wants to be with so he has to betray his people to have enough money to buy women.

You want to be King Leonidas - the badass motherfucker who hooks up with all the hunnies and knows how to kick some persian ass.

Here's how a conversation might go


Do you want to be the guy who has to pay for a woman's company or the badass motherfucker who women WANT to be with?
best reply ever
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Old 12-19-2008, 10:44 AM   #16
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I'll try my best to reply to everybody else's comments all in one shot.

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Quote:
In how many different ways do you expect a girl to reject you? Sorry bud she's not in that place, not even close to the place you are. Doesn't have any plans to go there and is thinking how she can get even further from that place.

She's even told you what she thinks is wrong with you and her... "another highschool relationship where one likes another and BAM together." She's not responding to your feelings and is not going to become "BAM" another couple. That is her way of saying- just because you like me doesn't mean it's going to happen. Get over it or she'll push you further away. Forget the other couch... she won't even get together to watch a movie.
Most of the times, she's comfortable being the person I am because I'm staying withing that friend zone. Anything further that I do, and she pushes me away. I'm not putting up a fuss because of the fact not because that I want to stay in that friend zone, its because that I'm afraid that I would lose her again. If I get over it and cut communication with her for a while, she'll turn to the guys that she sees, indicating that i'm the weaker component out of the others that I quit early. Crap. I don't even think that made sense at all.

Dafonz
Quote:
1) That's irrelevant. What is relevant is your ability to generate attraction in her. Thus far, you have failed miserably.

2) Wrong approach. By doing things for her, you're reducing your intrinsic value which makes you less attractive.

3) Isn't that the same thing? Girls do not like doormats. Repeat after me: I will not be a doormat.

To help you visualize, I'm going to explain things in terms of the battle of Thermopylae.

Right now, you're Ephialtes, the deformed Spartan who no one wants to be with so he has to betray his people to have enough money to buy women.

You want to be King Leonidas - the badass motherfucker who hooks up with all the hunnies and knows how to kick some persian ass.

Good post nonetheless, but what you are saying is that i'm venturing into uncharted territory by means of an altered personality towards her. I'm not afraid to do so, but I don't want to make her uncomfortable by means of doing what you just described. I can definitely raise the mood into something like that, then for sure, i'll go for it. but at this time, chances are pretty slim.

BoneThug
Quote:
1.) as far as i think there is no such thing as love just one person who likes the person more then the other. but i think that cause im cynical. she probably thinks it because she got burned. doesnt want to get burned again. easy concept, hard everything else.

2.) wouldnt do it. cant force myself to show my emotion for a girl that doesnt want to hear it. if she doesnt want you, then honestly, fuck her. im sure you like her a lot but honestly, she is probably dime a dozen. just like you. just like me.

3.) getting out of the friend zone and making a good re-first impression is key. what I gather from what you said is that she feels bored and in a rut with you. she has more fun with you then other people, but thats not saying much in her eyes. not a shot against you, she could just be impossible to please. id back off for another 6 months. and if you still care, then try again then.
1. Love is defined in a so many ways its so hard to interpret. Everybody perceives love differently because of how we all approach and think things differently. We're not all linear thinkers, most of us guys think out of the box just like how girls think too. We just have to do most of the work in order to get what we want. It's always been like that </offtopic>

2. I really don't want to give up on her. I can still show my emotion to a girl whether or not she's able to commit. Even as a good friend, I can still show my emotion to a girl if i'm able to trust her.

3. I do feel like as if i'm at the bottom of the totem pole, where I'm merely the backup-guy to all her leisures where she still enjoys her time with other guys. She's no player, she just has more close guy friends than how I have close girl friends. The last thing I'd want to hear is that i'm being used, but I know that she isn't because she definitely appreciates the things I do for her and the things we do together, but will always push me back into that friend zone after.


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Quote:
"Move On"
The reason I quoted all of you is because most, if not all, of your responses all direct to me moving on with my life and letting go, but still remain in her friend circle in ways that if she realizes what she has done, she'll come back to me. She'll want more. A friend noted:

so your options are basically to accept that she doesn't want more, that she just wants a friend-friend relationship, or if you do want more, then to step back and realize that if you aren't getting more, is what you already have enough, and if not, then to take the extra step back and find someone else to devote your time and energy to.

She uses you as that comfort/hanging out with without feeling like you want more. She likes being around you because she gets the company of what she'd have in a relationship without having to deal with you as a boyfriend. She gets that level of having someone there, without having to feel committed. You're being used, and it's unfortunate


Your explanations are very logical nonetheless as you provided me with sufficient detail on your reasons on what I should do.

I'll make sure to keep you guys updated with any news about us. But for now, after our last date this coming monday, i'll try my best to step back.

Regards,

Nintensity
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:08 AM   #17
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^This italicized text up there explains it perfectly.
From an outsider's view, thats exactly what it looks like..

She's using you cause she knows she can. She likes the feeling of having someone there to keep her company, yet not have to committ any extra time to you, other than what she feels is necessary to fill that empty space she's feeling.

But yeah, see how the "date" goes, if she's still acting the same, take a BIG step back.
My earlier post didnt necessarily mean step back and wait for her to realize what she's lost, thats just a bonus for you if it does happen

When I say move on, I mean forget about her, talk to other ppl, focus on work/school etc

Draft out.
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:32 AM   #18
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yeah man, shes using you because she knows that you will be there for her no matter what
take that away from her and see how she feels then
you'll find out if she really thinks of you only as a friend or not
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Old 12-19-2008, 11:52 AM   #19
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Keep us posted, bud.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:23 PM   #20
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You deserve better Nick. If you can't be yourself around her, you don't need her. She's not a good friend or anything else if she can't accept who you are. Turn her loose. She's gotta go.
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Old 12-19-2008, 02:45 PM   #21
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poor guy man..
i think she knows she got u wrapped around her finger.."as u posted above,where she totally blocked u off"
n as for girls there r 2 ladders ""a friend ladder and a dating ladder"" usually they dont cross.
as for my suggestion. if u really really like her, u have to let lose n be her friend sometimes loving someone doesnt mean u have to be with her.
n if she is smart enough to realize that ur a good dude, u will get her.
but forcing ur way in aint getting u newhere..

keep talkin to other chicks maybe u will run into one " just as attractive, just as chill where u guys share common interest"" that u both will share the same feelings

plenty of fishes in the sea. Dont get stranded lol
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Old 12-19-2008, 03:23 PM   #22
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i wouldn't say she is using you but you are making yourself way too available for yourself. Buddy, you are stuck in teh friend zone and there's no turning back. The fact you tried to hug her and sit on the same couch and then have her push you away, is so similar to a dog looking for approval. You're not going to get it. Once you're rejected,that's it. I don't know why you keep on trying and trying. that makes you deseparte.

Delete her from you life, ignore her and to tell you the truth, once that's done, BAM, she'll put a whole lot more attention on ya.
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Old 12-20-2008, 12:55 PM   #23
I don't get it
 
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Originally Posted by 6793026 View Post
i wouldn't say she is using you but you are making yourself way too available for yourself. Buddy, you are stuck in teh friend zone and there's no turning back. The fact you tried to hug her and sit on the same couch and then have her push you away, is so similar to a dog looking for approval. You're not going to get it. Once you're rejected,that's it. I don't know why you keep on trying and trying. that makes you deseparte.

Delete her from you life, ignore her and to tell you the truth, once that's done, BAM, she'll put a whole lot more attention on ya.

Truth.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:07 PM   #24
Willing to sell body for a few minutes on RS
 
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Originally Posted by 6793026 View Post
i wouldn't say she is using you but you are making yourself way too available for yourself. Buddy, you are stuck in teh friend zone and there's no turning back. The fact you tried to hug her and sit on the same couch and then have her push you away, is so similar to a dog looking for approval. You're not going to get it. Once you're rejected,that's it. I don't know why you keep on trying and trying. that makes you deseparte.

Delete her from you life, ignore her and to tell you the truth, once that's done, BAM, she'll put a whole lot more attention on ya.
Totally agree, if there is any interest on her part she'll come crawling back looking for more from you. I wouldn't go so far as to say don't call her anymore but make her a way smaller piece of your life and play the field. You really have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
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Old 12-20-2008, 03:56 PM   #25
My name is Michael. J. Caboose, and I hate BABIES!
 
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Why should he have to play her mind games though? Why can't girls just be straight up about if they like someone or not. It isn't that hard!!! Quit the fucking head games, we're not in high school anymore kiddies! Jesus.
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