Six-Four: 20 Years Today (June 4th Movement, Tiananmen Square)

[m4k4v4li]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The current topic is how the Communists essentially raped the nation of all its culture and identity. Do you really think it's as simple as "not being able to vote"? Do you think that guy stood in front of the tank because he wanted to view Wikipedia? Look at mainland people (generally). It goes far beyond just that. They have no more class, no more culture, because everything has been bleached away (nothing against Mainland people, they simply don't know any better. That's why I don't bother arguing with them any more). Instead of amazing historical monuments and fascinating places of history, they have posters and statues of Chairman Mao, other "feats" that the PRC built, and the stupid fucking bird's nest stadium.

All that's left are brainwashed people who don't know any better, and all they give a shit about any more is the latest LV bag and shiny BMW. They have been fooled into thinking economy is everything, and the nation has basically turned into a bunch of classless brainwashed money grubbing drones.

China has an amazing history. I love China. Anything before 1949 or so is amazing to learn about and discover. The country itself has some amazing things to see, and people to meet, as long as you stay far away from the shithole phony cities.

ha ha ha

people aren't as brainwashed as you think. stop fucking talking about mao because thats HISTORY. the majority do not idolize mao, nor do they hate him. its mixed. how can you be a sheep when you live through something like the cultural revolution, or tiananmen square massacre
even tho theres censorship, everybody still knows

and NA does not have money loving, porsche driving, laguna beach, vip bottle service, tailored suits, platnum card, country club, holt renfrew buying snotty fucks either huh? where is the culture in corporate america? if you call being shallow and carrying yourself with a mannerism that looks down upon others CLASS then sure, behind those gucci shades we're still of the same kind

gtfo if you think chinese people have been raped of their culture, its something you'll never fully understand. no matter how much time you spend in china or how ever many chinese people you befriend if you hold the attitude you hold

"i believe that our educatiaaaan like such as south africuhhh and the iraq everywhere such as and should help the US uhh iraq and asian countries"
theres your culture

[El Bastardo]

This thread solved all the world's problems. Rated A++
Would read again. Can't wait for the sequel.

[StylinRed]

too much to read and to little care in reading it


sooo..... this happened when i was a little kid and i remember my mom engrossed with the television at that time, and im sad to say i understand very little of it aside from the point that the students wanted china to open up


but from what i recently learned of it is the students at the time (who were the prosperous in china at that time) wanted china to open up to world for them so that they could prosper more; Chinas beliefs at that time were the country shouldn't open up yet until more of the populace could prosper and the students didn't like that and revolted and got taken down

that about it?






anyway i hear there's pictures that were released of Tanks actually running over students and ppl with flame throwers torching them, anyone have a link?

[Carl Johnson]

^
see the link i had posted

[dna82]

Originally Posted by RFlush

How about censorship that happens that you might not even know? Such as in the media?

not reporting things is not censorship.

if the government steps in and says you CAN'T report on this, that's censorship

if media companies say 'we DON'T want to report on this' that is NOT censorship.

[dna82]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

I was banned for a week for revealing the shitty ending to terminator salvation

funny how someone was mentioning how immigrants should some how feel guilty because their parents are rich while millions of other Chinese people are suffering

what makes Canadians exempt from this? Where do you think the wealth and freedoms we enjoy come from? The same source, the exploitation of a large and poor working class in a 3rd world country and a shit load of natural resources. Here we are sitting fat pointing our fingers being apart of the small percentage of the world that isn’t living like shit. How the fuck do you think capitalism works? Sorry but there are few countries where you can work 40 hours a week doing labor with no education and still enjoy living in a nice home, drive a car, plasma tv, retirement package and all the other crazy useless shit you want to buy in between. Don’t get your panties all up in a twist cuz chinks want what you have too

Someone mentioned political vs economic freedom, and someone went ape shit about how luckily in Canada we can enjoy both because we don’t have a corrupted fucked up government, geez, why can’t people in china have the freedom of choice to be able to enjoy everything we have over here too! Obviously they’re fucked up if they cant have both political and economic freedom, that I cherish so much evidently from how easy I think it comes. All the gov’t has to do is give it too them, what greedy bastards keeping it for themselves.

Ever stop to think what happens when 1 billion Chinese people living below the poverty line with no education start believing they have a voice in government affairs? I want political freedom! Im gonna strike and quit my job till I get better benefits! I want to vote for an assortment of political parties!! I want political stability and freedom!!! Sorry but political freedom and economic freedom can not happen simultaneously in china. At least not yet. Utter chaos would ensue, GLOBALLY. if you keep the majority of ur population dumbed down through censorship its easier to control, especially when it consist of 1/3 of the worlds population. Its harsh but its reality. Its for your own fucking good too.

And why the fuck are we talking so much about communism? O wait, that’s cuz all the white boys here think they know it all. China = big baddd commies, just like they were in the 80s! lets go smoke weed and advocate for world peace dude. The gov’t may still run under a communist headline, but that’s about it, LOL @ ur face if you think that’s how they operate. China is pushing so hard to promote a prosperous middle class and free private enterprise, you know… the ones investing heavily in NA. Please don’t bring human rights into the argument, the overall living standard is being raised significantly year after year. The average joe (or wong) bad joke I know… suddenly has an internet connection, and a tv, and is thinking about maybe buying a pair of nikes and sending his/her child to school. People are being fed on 3% fertile land and can drink clean water under a roof. They’re starting to have things, lots more things. That is the biggest human rights justification you can do for your people as a nation. They run just like how Canada run$. Its all about the RMB ^_^

you are an idiot and a racist. nobody in this thread even bashed chinese people. we're talking about the chinese government. but there you go, pulling out the race card.

go die in a fire.

you, yc, ddgauge, and whoever the fuck are all too stubborn to admit the very simple and glaring fact.

Unprecedented economic growth is not an excuse to abuse basic human rights.
Giving more time to an authoritarian government to consolidate power is not an effective means for democratic reform.
China supports Iran, Sudan, N.Korea, Myanmar. wow, is there any other shit country I haven't labeled?

list goes on, but im sure you guys will think of some assinine, obscure and evasive means to avoid the core issues.

[m4k4v4li]

you wouldnt have a computer to type out that post if china was a democracy

[dna82]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

you wouldnt have a computer to type out that post if china was a democracy

Originally Posted by dna82

list goes on, but im sure you guys will think of some assinine, obscure and evasive means to avoid the core issues.

I rest, my case.

[m4k4v4li]

fair enough
maybe I am just too stubborn to actually believe China is trying to progress forward

lol its a pity how pissed off you get dna, hopefully one day you'll be able to see beyond black and white

[dna82]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

fair enough
maybe I am just too stubborn to actually believe China is trying to progress forward

lol its a pity how pissed off you get dna, hopefully one day you'll be able to see beyond black and white

Originally Posted by dna82

list goes on, but im sure you guys will think of some assinine, obscure and evasive means to avoid the core issues.

wow, how many times do you want me to qoute myself?

ask yourself this.
China is progressing towards what exactly? the richest authoritarian state in the world? congrats! your competition for this illustrious title is, Vietnam, Myanmar, Nkorea, Cuba, Saudia Arabia. i'm sure they'll be the smartest kid in the special ed's class.

[Nightwalker]

Originally Posted by 6chr0nic4

ha ha ha

people aren't as brainwashed as you think. stop fucking talking about mao because thats HISTORY. the majority do not idolize mao, nor do they hate him. its mixed. how can you be a sheep when you live through something like the cultural revolution, or tiananmen square massacre
even tho theres censorship, everybody still knows

and NA does not have money loving, porsche driving, laguna beach, vip bottle service, tailored suits, platnum card, country club, holt renfrew buying snotty fucks either huh? where is the culture in corporate america? if you call being shallow and carrying yourself with a mannerism that looks down upon others CLASS then sure, behind those gucci shades we're still of the same kind

gtfo if you think chinese people have been raped of their culture, its something you'll never fully understand. no matter how much time you spend in china or how ever many chinese people you befriend if you hold the attitude you hold

"i believe that our educatiaaaan like such as south africuhhh and the iraq everywhere such as and should help the US uhh iraq and asian countries"
theres your culture

Protip: We're not American.

[StylinRed]

the USA stifles Democracy too, look at Russia the USA helped Yeltsin crush Democracy because those democrats didn't believe in Capitalism(etc etc, Shock Doctrine)

[m4k4v4li]

haha ill agree to disagree

[m4k4v4li]

Originally Posted by Nightwalker

Protip: We're not American.

thats true. but we're also the size of california

[RFlush]

Originally Posted by dna82

not reporting things is not censorship.

if the government steps in and says you CAN'T report on this, that's censorship

if media companies say 'we DON'T want to report on this' that is NOT censorship.

media reporting in a biased way and alterating interviews is pretty much censorship. Maybe you should look at the definition of censorship. In my opinion, censorship and proaganda go hand and hand.

[dna82]

Originally Posted by RFlush

media reporting in a biased way and alterating interviews is pretty much censorship. Maybe you should look at the definition of censorship. In my opinion, censorship and proaganda go hand and hand.

Censorship, the control of speech and other forms of human expression.
by this broad definition, there is no escape from it. everything is censored. is that what you wanted to hear? what exactly are you trying to say?

semantics, geezes.

[fetched]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The current topic is how the Communists essentially raped the nation of all its culture and identity. Do you really think it's as simple as "not being able to vote"? Do you think that guy stood in front of the tank because he wanted to view Wikipedia? Look at mainland people (generally). It goes far beyond just that. They have no more class, no more culture, because everything has been bleached away (nothing against Mainland people, they simply don't know any better. That's why I don't bother arguing with them any more). Instead of amazing historical monuments and fascinating places of history, they have posters and statues of Chairman Mao, other "feats" that the PRC built, and the stupid fucking bird's nest stadium.

All that's left are brainwashed people who don't know any better, and all they give a shit about any more is the latest LV bag and shiny BMW. They have been fooled into thinking economy is everything, and the nation has basically turned into a bunch of classless brainwashed money grubbing drones.

China has an amazing history. I love China. Anything before 1949 or so is amazing to learn about and discover. The country itself has some amazing things to see, and people to meet, as long as you stay far away from the shithole phony cities.

I'm feel sorry for you, because you don't know anything about China. What makes you think they have no class, no more culture? Ask most people about China's history before 1949, they will tell you the dynasties and opium smoking China men.
China still has most historic structures (some were burnt and destroyed by the Japanese and the British) and have become tourist attractions. Chairman Mao's picture no longer exists anywhere besides historic government buildings, only classic quotes from him are hanging in normal government buildings and etc.
Bird Nest is not a fucking stupid building, any stadium that can fit over 80,000 people is an architectural marvel. Besides, it's not even designed by the Chinese.
Canada/US is no better than China, see all the ricers with no taste? And bling this chrome that? You call that class? White guys wearing Ed Hardy Dom Rebel thinking their the shit? C'mon.. China is still in it's industrial age, just like what Canada and the United States gone through decades ago. No matter how much you complain about human rights blah blah blah, things are going to happen that will overlook human rights for economic gain, hence Canada/US(Chinese railroad workers vs Black Slaves).
You guys cry about how it is not right to say that China needs time for things to change, but it is the inconvenient truth. China just like any other developing country will go through moderate changes through out it's phase into a developed country, although China has more problem than what Can/US have, it is also expected that in a country that inhabits 1.3billion people, things are bound to be different.
History of China is anything before June 6th, 2009. Anyone will tell you Capitalism in 2009 in China is better than it was in 1949.

DNA:
China supports Sudan, N Korea, Venezuela, Russia
US supports Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan(before 911) other rogue countries.

It's all about World Power!

[+Kardboard+]

Originally Posted by fetched

C'mon.. China is still in it's industrial age, just like what Canada and the United States gone through decades ago. No matter how much you complain about human rights blah blah blah, things are going to happen that will overlook human rights for economic gain, hence Canada/US(Chinese railroad workers vs Black Slaves).
You guys cry about how it is not right to say that China needs time for things to change, but it is the inconvenient truth. China just like any other developing country will go through moderate changes through out it's phase into a developed country, although China has more problem than what Can/US have, it is also expected that in a country that inhabits 1.3billion people

Ding ding ding ding, even though I don't agree with all that you said, you hit the hammer on the nail right there. I minored in econ, specifically economic history, so I can attest to the horrors of what the Industrial Revolution brought about.

If anything, perhaps some of us don't want the same to happen to China during their transition, at least that's the case for me.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by fetched

Ask most people about China's history before 1949, they will tell you the dynasties and opium smoking China men.

Yup, before the communists came around to make things perfect, China was nothing but a bunch of shit eating opium smoking crackheads. Nothing good came out of China before that. No art, no literature, no major inventions. Thanks Mao, for making China such a great place!

BTW thanks for proving my point

[Hehe]

Some of you don't get the criticism that most of us are trying to discuss here is about Chinese government rather than China as a whole.

6-4 was an unfortunate event due to a conflict in political interest. Fast forward 20 years later, the Chinese government is still crap in term of anything that go against its interest.

It doesn't matter what age China is, industrial or what not, it's just the Chinese government is still doing everything it can to protect itself from collapsing (or even slightly chance). They have been brainwashing their citizens for years to ensure that events like industrial revolutions in the western worlds does not occur to them. They are not doing this in the best interest of Chinese people, but the interest of the communist party.

[fetched]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

Yup, before the communists came around to make things perfect, China was nothing but a bunch of shit eating opium smoking crackheads. Nothing good came out of China before that. No art, no literature, no major inventions. Thanks Mao, for making China such a great place!

BTW thanks for proving my point

um..what?
Dynasties
Which included all the art, literature, and inventions.
hahahahaha
Thanks for proving my point.

[Hehe]

^

I believe it was sarcasm.....

[fetched]

^
You
Are
Clueless
He thought i was brainwashed where I only know about opium blah blah, and pointed out there are arts lit other stuff in China's history hence Dynasties.
Aiii These threads are pointless, going back and forth back and forth. Same topic every time and i can't stop myself from typing lol

[Carl Johnson]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Some of you don't get the criticism that most of us are trying to discuss here is about Chinese government rather than China as a whole.

6-4 was an unfortunate event due to a conflict in political interest. Fast forward 20 years later, the Chinese government is still crap in term of anything that go against its interest.

It doesn't matter what age China is, industrial or what not, it's just the Chinese government is still doing everything it can to protect itself from collapsing (or even slightly chance). They have been brainwashing their citizens for years to ensure that events like industrial revolutions in the western worlds does not occur to them. They are not doing this in the best interest of Chinese people, but the interest of the communist party.

and the government is building up the largest army in the world and spending crap load of money on developing military technologies and are damn proud of it. but they don't want you to hear about all the unsafe school buildings in the rural areas. thousands of young student died last year from earthquake because school builders and province officials kept most of the project monies to themselves. kids? who cares the babies can to born again right

[dna82]

Originally Posted by fetched

I'm feel sorry for you, because you don't know anything about China. What makes you think they have no class, no more culture? Ask most people about China's history before 1949, they will tell you the dynasties and opium smoking China men.
China still has most historic structures (some were burnt and destroyed by the Japanese and the British) and have become tourist attractions. Chairman Mao's picture no longer exists anywhere besides historic government buildings, only classic quotes from him are hanging in normal government buildings and etc.
Bird Nest is not a fucking stupid building, any stadium that can fit over 80,000 people is an architectural marvel. Besides, it's not even designed by the Chinese.
Canada/US is no better than China, see all the ricers with no taste? And bling this chrome that? You call that class? White guys wearing Ed Hardy Dom Rebel thinking their the shit? C'mon.. China is still in it's industrial age, just like what Canada and the United States gone through decades ago. No matter how much you complain about human rights blah blah blah, things are going to happen that will overlook human rights for economic gain, hence Canada/US(Chinese railroad workers vs Black Slaves).
You guys cry about how it is not right to say that China needs time for things to change, but it is the inconvenient truth. China just like any other developing country will go through moderate changes through out it's phase into a developed country, although China has more problem than what Can/US have, it is also expected that in a country that inhabits 1.3billion people, things are bound to be different.
History of China is anything before June 6th, 2009. Anyone will tell you Capitalism in 2009 in China is better than it was in 1949.

DNA:
China supports Sudan, N Korea, Venezuela, Russia
US supports Israel, Pakistan, Afghanistan(before 911) other rogue countries.

It's all about World Power!

o, pakistan, yes, the us supports them. what did they get in return? money to fight militants and a civilian elected government. that's progress.
us supported afghanistan to repel a russian invasion. gg.
isreal? whats wrong with them? sure they do some fucked up shit, but their people are generally happy, and have a say in their political sphere. hell, if you were surrounded by countries that literally don't believe you have the right to exist, it's hard to play nicely.
name me another country. the us isn't perfect, far from it. but it's still one of the best countries in the world.

you do realize that the Chinese Government has not made one step towards democratic reform since....ever.
what makes you have faith in the Chinese government? to let go of so much unchecked power...

you do realize your entire post can be condensed to.
'we're growing, so we should be allowed to do whatever the fuck we want, when we grow up, then we'll play by the rules set out by our peers.' pointing out other people's histories does not justify your own atrocities. if anything, you should learn from our mistakes and move on.

you are a child.