Police Forum Police Head Mod: Skidmark
Questions & info about the Motor Vehicle Act. Mature discussion only. |
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03-23-2010, 10:29 PM
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#1 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
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| Excessive police force in victoria
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03-23-2010, 10:31 PM
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#2 | | NOOB, Not Quite a Regular!
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WOW......
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03-23-2010, 11:29 PM
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#3 | | The Lone Wanderator
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I'd be curious to know the circumstances of the situation.
Also, this is one more reason why obeying the police is a smart move.
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03-24-2010, 12:52 AM
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#4 | | I contribute to threads in the offtopic forum
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That does not look good on the cops. Anyone know the story or a news link?
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03-24-2010, 07:17 AM
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#5 | | VAC Head Rotang Mod
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need lots more video from before this to determine context. maybe they weren't following instructions, or were resisting arrest.
that second guy is retarded if he was sitting on the grass and got up, not a smart idea when a cop tells you to shut up, sit down, and don't move... and then you go and get up and walk towards them... of course thats going to earn you a boot in the kidney.
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03-24-2010, 07:41 AM
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#6 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
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Originally Posted by slammer111 That does not look good on the cops. Anyone know the story or a news link? | http://www.ctvbc.ctv.ca/servlet/an/l...ritishColumbia | |
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03-24-2010, 08:45 AM
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#7 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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People do not like to listen when they are drunk.. Cop tells you to do something and you don't basically says you wont listen to them so they are better off handcuffing you. If you resist thats your own problem.. Also i dont understand why people try to move away when a cop pulls out their handcuffs, its not like they are going to put the cuffs back and call it a day. If you know you are going to get cuffed you will.
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03-24-2010, 02:00 PM
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#8 | | I wish I was where I was when I wished I was here
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In the beginning of the video you can see a guy laying down in front of the store not moving. If they were responsible, the kicks were understandable. http://www.revscene.net/forums/exces...e-t609784.html | |
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03-24-2010, 02:09 PM
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#9 | | Orgasm Donor & Alatar owned my ass twice!
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You think they don't have access to the off topic forum or something?
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03-24-2010, 05:31 PM
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#10 | | Retired Traffic Cop
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Unfortunately, whenever you see something in the news, you really have no context at all to place it in. Being skeptical of the media, my personal opinion is that they cut the video to try and show the police in a bad light. Sometimes it is deserved, and sometimes not. If not, I think that the officer should be responsible for the excess force.
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03-25-2010, 08:26 AM
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#11 | | Banned (BBM)
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bad move on the cops
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03-25-2010, 09:43 AM
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#12 | | Proud to be called a RS Regular!
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Originally Posted by Raid3n that second guy is retarded if he was sitting on the grass and got up, not a smart idea when a cop tells you to shut up, sit down, and don't move... and then you go and get up and walk towards them... of course thats going to earn you a boot in the kidney. | The 2nd guy might have been retarded but he doesn't deserve to get a soccer kick into the kidney and it isn't like the guy was attacking the officer. I still say that was the cheap shot from the officer.
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03-25-2010, 09:55 AM
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#13 | | OMGWTFBBQ is a common word I say everyday
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Originally Posted by lonelydriver The 2nd guy might have been retarded but he doesn't deserve to get a soccer kick into the kidney and it isn't like the guy was attacking the officer. I still say that was the cheap shot from the officer. | If he was sober maybe, but these guys were drunk and were not cooperating properly.
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03-25-2010, 12:11 PM
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#14 | | Retired Traffic Cop
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Generally, by the time that you have reached the point in the incident that the video was taken, you have either missed or exhausted the opportunity to ask nicely. Minimum force has failed and you are now into making it happen and you've decided not to back out.
Now you are dealing with a subject who has been drinking, is not compliant, and adding a bit of pain to the equation is what is needed to force the issue. (Might be a perfect time to use a Taser, but there are problems with that too!) This is the only part that the video shows, and the boot looks bad, but in the total context is an acceptable way of applying force to try and bring about compliance.
It's hard to really understand this until you have to make someone go with you who does not want to and violently resists.
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03-25-2010, 03:36 PM
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#15 | | e-thugger*
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I have no problem with the amount of force used by the officers in that video, especially if the CTV article is accurate describing how those guys were attacking a guy on the street.
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03-25-2010, 04:56 PM
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#16 | | I subscribe to Revscene
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Originally Posted by skidmark Generally, by the time that you have reached the point in the incident that the video was taken, you have either missed or exhausted the opportunity to ask nicely. Minimum force has failed and you are now into making it happen and you've decided not to back out.
Now you are dealing with a subject who has been drinking, is not compliant, and adding a bit of pain to the equation is what is needed to force the issue. (Might be a perfect time to use a Taser, but there are problems with that too!) This is the only part that the video shows, and the boot looks bad, but in the total context is an acceptable way of applying force to try and bring about compliance.
It's hard to really understand this until you have to make someone go with you who does not want to and violently resists. | RE the second guy that was kicked by the officer in the yellow jacket:
The suspect was crawling with both his arms well exposed. Wouldn't it have been a much simpler end to the situation if the officers simply grabbed his arms, pulled them to the sides and let the crawler down on his chest? Both arms would be out to the side and it would have been much easier to bring about compliance.
Instead of grabbing his arm, the officer in the yellow jacket kicked the suspect, waited for the suspect to fall down onto his left side, then placed his knee firmly in the suspect's back making it much harder for the suspect to slide his arm under him and then around his back.
The second kneeing in the back was also uncalled for. In the position he was in, the suspect simply couldn't bring his left hand under him and place it around his back.
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03-25-2010, 10:39 PM
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#17 | | WOAH! i think Vtec just kicked in!
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This might look like excessive force, but the media only reports what the police did, but they don't say what the drunk guys were doing before it escalated to that. However, I do agree it looks bad, but I wouldn't judge them until I hear everything. However, it seems like the Victoria police have been in the news lately for a bunch of negative things.
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03-26-2010, 08:28 AM
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#18 | | RS Peace Officer
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The 'victim' was a 6 foot 5 inch 250 lb former Shamrocks player. He said the pain was 'the worst he had ever felt in his life'...what kind of Lacrosse do the 'Rocks play ?
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03-26-2010, 11:24 AM
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#19 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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Originally Posted by netfreak I have no problem with the amount of force used by the officers in that video, especially if the CTV article is accurate describing how those guys were attacking a guy on the street. | It's really pathetic that these guys figure they're allowed to (allegedly) beat on some guy eight-on-one, but when they (allegedly) get it back from the cops, suddenly it's "police brutality, ooooo poor me, boo hoo hoo!"
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03-26-2010, 01:24 PM
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#20 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
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Turns out the second guy in the video getting the kick was actually asking for help. http://www.theprovince.com/kicked+se...689/story.html | |
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03-26-2010, 01:27 PM
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#21 | | I subscribe to Revscene
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Originally Posted by dutch | But he's 6 foot 5.. he can't possibly be a victim needing help... Quote:
Originally Posted by zulutango The 'victim' was a 6 foot 5 inch 250 lb former Shamrocks player. He said the pain was 'the worst he had ever felt in his life'...what kind of Lacrosse do the 'Rocks play ? | | |
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03-26-2010, 01:38 PM
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#22 | | 14 dolla balla aint got nothing on me!
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Originally Posted by sebberry But he's 6 foot 5.. he can't possibly be a victim needing help... | I don't understand?
Are you saying because hes a big guy, he can take on 5-6 other guys?
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03-26-2010, 01:39 PM
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#23 | | RS Peace Officer
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Originally Posted by dutch | If you read the TC story...even they say that what they printed was "This is Archer's account of what happened". He has a lawyer now and that is usually followed by self-serving public statements in the hope of getting $ from the police in the suit he has now filed against them. One of the thoughts that crossed my mind in reading the TC article, might also cross yours..this was the worst pain he had ever felt in his life but the Paramedics let him go home without taking hime to hospital to treat his terrible injuries? Just something that stuck out to me?
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03-26-2010, 01:53 PM
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#24 | | I subscribe to Revscene
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Originally Posted by zulutango One of the thoughts that crossed my mind in reading the TC article, might also cross yours..this was the worst pain he had ever felt in his life but the Paramedics let him go home without taking hime to hospital to treat his terrible injuries? Just something that stuck out to me? | Worst pain he felt in his life doesn't necessarily need to be a serious injury.
I myself have never been in a fight, so it wouldn't have to be a big hit for it to qualify as the worst pain I have felt.
Anyway, perhaps the kick (that was hard enough to be picked up by the camera's microphone) was necessary.
The suspect was on his hands and knees. What prevented the officers from simply grabbing his arms and pulling them sideways causing the suspect to fall flat to the ground?
Shouldn't officer yellowjacket have first attempted to control the suspect's arm instead of kick him? I can understand kicking if the suspect was fighting back and throwing punches.
The suspect was on his left side with officer yellowjacket's knee planted firmly in his back. He couldn't possibly have been able to slide his left arm between himself and the ground. Did that deserve another knee-hit to the spine?
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03-26-2010, 03:27 PM
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#25 | | I WANT MY 10 YEARS BACK FROM RS.net!
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Originally Posted by sebberry Shouldn't officer yellowjacket have first attempted to control the suspect's arm instead of kick him? I can understand kicking if the suspect was fighting back and throwing punches. | That was skidmark's point: we don't know that he didn't. We don't know what led up to this. There could half an hour of police trying steadily to subdue the guy calmly. Or maybe a dozen cops just came out of nowhere and gang-raped the guy for no reason whatsoever. You don't know either way, so don't make assumptions just because you have an anti-police bias.
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