Engine Oil/Oil Changes Myth and Facts Thread

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Shun Izaki

Also use the regular pennzoil stuff... nice and thick.

Originally Posted by Shun Izaki

royal purple's so "thin" i'd think you'd be best off changing it within 2-3000km anyways XD

No offense but that's incorrect.

As per manufacturer's specs:

Royal Purple 5w30
Visc @ 40C = 64.8 cST
Visc @ 100C = 10.7 cST

Pennzoil Platinum 5w30
Visc @ 40C = 57.5 cST
Visc @ 100C = 10.3 cST

In reality the Royal Purple is actually thicker in both room temp and at operating temperature...
But the difference is so small, it doesn't really matter; they're essentially the same. This is unlike German Castrol 0w30, where it's on the higher end of the 30 scale (I think around 13 cST when cold)

Also, thinner oils doesn't mean you are receiving inadequate protection. A lot of new cars spec 0w20 now.

PS. I use PP 5w30 in my RSX. Great oil, cheap, stellar UOAs. (For my application)

[unit]

i always hear people say 8-10k on synthetic, but my bmw oil monitor usually goes into the yellow zone around 15k. i just follow that.

[Great68]

Pennzoil platinum 5w30 in my Mazda. Change every 6000kms, which works out to every 4 months of driving. Three oil changes a year is perfectly reasonable.

[Phil@rise]

Personally I don't care about manufacturers recommendations I change mine and recommend others to do so every 5000km's synthetic or petroleum based. Why? Its cheap insurance and if something internal is failing would you rather find out now or 3000+ km's later when it could be to late.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

^

werd

i rather spend $50 bux or so and sleep better at night, or the next time i redline my car

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by Mugen EvOlutioN

^

werd

i rather spend $50 bux or so and sleep better at night, or the next time i redline my car

+1


not to mention checking the oil level each time i get gas too. the more i vtak, the more often i change my oil.

[Mugen EvOlutioN]

i like vtak

[underscore]

jebus, I've just been changing my oil when it looks dirty (I leak/burn a bit though so it gets topped up fairly frequently) which is probably around 5k or so. My g/f felt bad about how dirty she let the oil in her car get, but after reading this now I know we should both be able to go longer. I think I'll do some of those tests soon.

Here's my question: I was told to avoid Quaker State and Penzoil because they have wax in them, which can build up in the engine (oil pump intake etc). Truth or fiction?

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by underscore

jebus, I've just been changing my oil when it looks dirty (I leak/burn a bit though so it gets topped up fairly frequently) which is probably around 5k or so. My g/f felt bad about how dirty she let the oil in her car get, but after reading this now I know we should both be able to go longer. I think I'll do some of those tests soon.

Here's my question: I was told to avoid Quaker State and Penzoil because they have wax in them, which can build up in the engine (oil pump intake etc). Truth or fiction?

half truth half fiction.

it was the old pennzoil from way back that causes it. Pennzoil/ Quaker have some pretty decent stuff for the money.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by underscore

jebus, I've just been changing my oil when it looks dirty (I leak/burn a bit though so it gets topped up fairly frequently) which is probably around 5k or so. My g/f felt bad about how dirty she let the oil in her car get, but after reading this now I know we should both be able to go longer. I think I'll do some of those tests soon.

Here's my question: I was told to avoid Quaker State and Penzoil because they have wax in them, which can build up in the engine (oil pump intake etc). Truth or fiction?

Absolute fiction. God damn it. It's the year 2010 and people still say there's wax in Pennzoil? A lot of oils are made with paraffainic base stock. People just assumed that meant paraffin wax . In fact, they are less likely to form sludge than naphthenic-based crude oils.

The myth has been around for decades. In the 50s when information wasn't so freely passed, a mechanic would see an engine sludged up. What oil was used? Probably Pennzoil, because it was the most widely used oil at the time. Therefore Pennzoil is to blame!

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Phil@rise

Personally I don't care about manufacturers recommendations I change mine and recommend others to do so every 5000km's synthetic or petroleum based. Why? Its cheap insurance and if something internal is failing would you rather find out now or 3000+ km's later when it could be to late.

Sure. I disagree with your logic though. There was a place in time where a 5,000km oil change was justified. The dirty days if carburetion, shitty tolerancing, and shitty oil made from Group I basestocks.

For example take the Honda B series engines which recommended valve adjustments every 50,000km. With new K engines, they aren't needed till 176,000km.

Technology progresses, and so does oil tech. It's just hard for people to get over the psychological barrier.

As for the idea that it's cheap insurance, do you change your underwear 3x a day? Get valve adjustments every 10,000km? Change brake pads every 10,000km? Put in 'fuel injector cleaner' in every tank of gas?

Simply not necessary in today's age. To each their own, but personally it's just pissing away money unnecessarily.

Lubrication related failures are quite rare too, when the recommendations are followed.

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Lubrication related failures are quite rare.

i heard horror stories of RDX'es blowing up using the wrong synthetic oil..

same goes for S2000's..? i think the timing chain tensioner or something goes wack when someone uses mobile 1...??

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by underscore

jebus, I've just been changing my oil when it looks dirty (I leak/burn a bit though so it gets topped up fairly frequently) which is probably around 5k or so. My g/f felt bad about how dirty she let the oil in her car get, but after reading this now I know we should both be able to go longer. I think I'll do some of those tests soon.

Here's my question: I was told to avoid Quaker State and Penzoil because they have wax in them, which can build up in the engine (oil pump intake etc). Truth or fiction?

Skip to 1:10

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[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by tofu1413

i heard horror stories of RDX'es blowing up using the wrong synthetic oil..

same goes for S2000's..? i think the timing chain tensioner or something goes wack when someone uses mobile 1...??

Link me to the RDX stories.. I'm actually interested. But again, the failure was because of user being idiot and using oil that didn't meet HTO-06 standard. Pretty idiotic if you ask me, especially since M1 is written right on the engine cap. Only 4 oils that I know of meet this spec, M1 5w30, PP 5w30, Amsoil 0w30 SSO, and Kendall 5w30.

As for the S2K TCT issue, is that really oil related? S2k owners were getting funny noises because slack in the chain was causing improper contact with the various chain guides/tensioners and upper timing gear. Oil problem or timing chain system design problem?

I highly doubt that the BRAND of oil had anything to do with it.. Ie if M1 wasn't used, it wouldn't happen.

M1 is just extremely popular with S2K users, so its not surprising the blame would be pinned onto them. Correlation doesn't = causation of course. A friend of mine w/ an S2k used Amsoil (which is actually a full synthetic btw), and still had TCT issues.

PS. It's Mobil1, not Mobile1.

[Meowjin]

Why is the guy trying to talk me out of putting synthetic in my car. This is mr lube btw
Posted via RS Mobile

[Meowjin]

Wait I'm retarded. My tl doesn't need synthetic last service was 5-20 non synth
Posted via RS Mobile

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

Why is the guy trying to talk me out of putting synthetic in my car. This is mr lube btw
Posted via RS Mobile

Could be a few reasons,

-So you see him more often and he makes more $$ out of you.
-Bulk 5w30 dino oil used in speedy lube shops are VERY cheap. Better profit margin for him.

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by LiquidTurbo

Link me to the RDX stories.. I'm actually interested. But again, the failure was because of user being idiot and using oil that didn't meet HTO-06 standard. Pretty idiotic if you ask me, especially since M1 is written right on the engine cap. Only 4 oils that I know of meet this spec, M1 5w30, PP 5w30, Amsoil 0w30 SSO, and Kendall 5w30.

As for the S2K TCT issue, is that really oil related? S2k owners were getting funny noises because slack in the chain was causing improper contact with the various chain guides/tensioners and upper timing gear. Oil problem or timing chain system design problem?

I highly doubt that the BRAND of oil had anything to do with it.. Ie if M1 wasn't used, it wouldn't happen.

M1 is just extremely popular with S2K users, so its not surprising the blame would be pinned onto them. Correlation doesn't = causation of course. A friend of mine w/ an S2k used Amsoil (which is actually a full synthetic btw), and still had TCT issues.

PS. It's Mobil1, not Mobile1.

my bad on the spelling.

i remember back in my mr lube days, i heard someguy in the north van store didnt put the specified mobil 1 5w30 in it or w/e and the RDX motor ended up grenading...

majin// what do you drive?

[Meowjin]

08 tl. I got mobil 1 synth 520 put in
Posted via RS Mobile

[Phil@rise]

"Sure. I disagree with your logic though. There was a place in time where a 5,000km oil change was justified. The dirty days if carburetion, shitty tolerancing, and shitty oil made from Group I basestocks"

It's not just a case of carburation or shitty tolerances. (tolerancing isn't a word FYI). Changing your oil frequently and inspecting whats comes out with it or suspended in it is just cheap insurance against premature engine failure.
Sometimes parts go bad. And the best way to find out if that's the case is regular inspection and that includes inspecting your oil and filter. This is especially true if you abuse your motor and spinning up into VTech isn't the only form of abuse that warrants frequent oil changes and inspection.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Phil@rise

It's not just a case of carburation or shitty tolerances. (tolerancing isn't a word FYI). Changing your oil frequently and inspecting whats comes out with it or suspended in it is just cheap insurance against premature engine failure.
Sometimes parts go bad. And the best way to find out if that's the case is regular inspection and that includes inspecting your oil and filter. This is especially true if you abuse your motor and spinning up into VTech isn't the only form of abuse that warrants frequent oil changes and inspection.

First of all, Tolerancing is most definitely a word. Just because spellcheck says no, doesn't mean it's not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geometr...nd_tolerancing

Second, the only way to check the condition of oil is to perform a Used Oil Analysis, not by looking at it. I bet if you did one, the analysis will say your oil will have plenty of life left at 5,000km.

Lastly, VTech is not a word, it's a brand of phone

[tofu1413]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

08 tl. I got mobil 1 synth 520 put in
Posted via RS Mobile

i dont see why nott


inspecting the car more often is often a good insurance of mechanical failures.

[Phil@rise]

"Second, the only way to check the condition of oil is to perform a Used Oil Analysis, not by looking at it. I bet if you did one, the analysis will say your oil will have plenty of life left at 5,000km."


Ohh jeeze just cus the oil has plenty of life left in it at 5000km's of use doesn't mean the motor does.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
When doing a visual inspection of the oil and filter you are looking for contaminants indicative of engine wear that could lead to premature failure obviously the oil still has a usable service life at 5000km's.
So do an oil change at 5000km intervals and catch that cam wearing out early before it takes out the whole motor cus you were a lazy cheap dumbass and went 10000km's between oil changes.
Get the point I'm trying to make.

[LiquidTurbo]

Originally Posted by Phil@rise

"Second, the only way to check the condition of oil is to perform a Used Oil Analysis, not by looking at it. I bet if you did one, the analysis will say your oil will have plenty of life left at 5,000km."


Ohh jeeze just cus the oil has plenty of life left in it at 5000km's of use doesn't mean the motor does.
That's the point I'm trying to make.
When doing a visual inspection of the oil and filter you are looking for contaminants indicative of engine wear that could lead to premature failure obviously the oil still has a usable service life at 5000km's.
So do an oil change at 5000km intervals and catch that cam wearing out early before it takes out the whole motor cus you were a lazy cheap dumbass and went 10000km's between oil changes.
Get the point I'm trying to make.

You might think I'm trolling you but I'm actually having a serious discussion.

If the oil has plenty of usable life at 5,000km (thus doing it's job) why would the cam be wearing out early to the point of seeing chunks of cam in the oil?



Wear metals are on the order of microns, when the oil is doing it's job, which a Used Oil Analyses can check. Ie, checking Iron levels in parts per million. You can't use your eyes to see this.

If you are concerned about inspecting the cam's in the car the most effective way is to simply open up the head and look at them.


Here's some valvegear photos of a K20A3 head at 176,000km running 12,000km intervals with conventional non-synthetic oil. (Halvoline 5w20). No issues what so ever. Spotless engine.

The owner determined this oil interval via UOA he performed, and he's found a combination and interval that's been working well for him. Looks like it could serve him another 176,000km easily.

Here's the UOA data.



Valve gear pics:








The point you were trying to make is essentially invalid.

If you love your car, you're better off doing a UOA and interpreting the results, rather than spending more money changing the oil unnecessarily. Physically looking at the oil is a terrible way of inspecting the engine. In fact, it doesn't really tell you anything.

[Phil@rise]

Ohhh my god not trolling my ass.

BECAUSE THERE MAY BE A FAULTY PART I've seen it first hand on many occasions and can point you in the direction of many other engine builders who also have.

That's why its called PREVENTATIVE MAINTENANCE and if you know what your looking for you can determine if something is going amiss by looking at your oil and inspecting the filter material in your filter and you don't need a microscope to do so, common sense and experience will do just fine.
Again its cheap insurance about 40 bucks every few months. That aint so bad compared to the extreme alternative.

Nice cam pics but the cam was just an example of many engine components that can wear out prematurely for many reasons and take out the rest of the motor if left undetected till the bitter end.