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The only $25k M3's I've seen are higher mileage pre '04 cars. And in reading your list of repair items, that $25k M3 will quickly turn into a $35k M3 if you are unlucky.
The M3 is a good jack of all trades car, but I don't think it's by no means a used car bargain. There are going to be a lot of young kids with $25k in hand buying a beat on M3 and finding themselves in over their head when they have issues with the sub-frame, VANOS or simply having to pay for a valve adjustment.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic car. A good buddy just picked up a clean example last year. But, IMO, no, it's not the best used car purchase for $25k.
Yah. If you are getting all the maintenance done by the stealership of course its going to be expensive. Its not that bad if you bring it to a indy shop Posted via RS Mobile
The E46 n/a with an exhaust sounds worse than any fartcan civic i've ever heard. It's probally one of the worst sounding bmw's ever.
With ITB and the highly tuned inline 6, BMW is stuck with that sound unfortunately. But u can always stick your fart can from a civic on your BMW to make it sound like one.
The only $25k M3's I've seen are higher mileage pre '04 cars. And in reading your list of repair items, that $25k M3 will quickly turn into a $35k M3 if you are unlucky.
The M3 is a good jack of all trades car, but I don't think it's by no means a used car bargain. There are going to be a lot of young kids with $25k in hand buying a beat on M3 and finding themselves in over their head when they have issues with the sub-frame, VANOS or simply having to pay for a valve adjustment.
Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic car. A good buddy just picked up a clean example last year. But, IMO, no, it's not the best used car purchase for $25k.
Kev
No kidding, sounds like these cars can get you WAY over your head if youre not careful about planning and staying on top of routine maintenence.
BMW is the only euro brand that id ever consider buying from, but those big $$$ repair bills keep me from pulling the trigger.
I think it's hilarious how people on RS make it sound like owning European cars guarantees massive repair bills.
Yes, the car is slightly less reliable than a Honda/Toyota, but it's not an exotic or something. You can still rely on your car to start every day and get you from point A to point B without any issues.
Parts are a bit more expensive, yes, but hourly labour rates from an independent shop shouldn't be any more than you'd pay at a Honda/Toyota dealership, for example.
There are a few known issues on early-model M3's, but even then they affect a small percentage of vehicles... you're not guaranteed (or even likely) to get one needing subframe repairs or VANOS failure or whatever else, especially if you have it inspected before buying.
Besides, you get what you pay for... the e46 M3 is a brilliant car. Even if it costs you a few hundred dollars more in maintenance every year, wouldn't you be willing to pay that for pleasure of driving it every day?
My e46, although not an M3, is reliable enough even with 140,000km on it... and it's a sheer joy to own and drive. I'd never trade it in for a lesser car even if it meant I'd save a thousand dollars a year on maintenance.
I think it's hilarious how people on RS make it sound like owning European cars guarantees massive repair bills.
Yes, the car is slightly less reliable than a Honda/Toyota, but it's not an exotic or something. You can still rely on your car to start every day and get you from point A to point B without any issues.
Parts are a bit more expensive, yes, but hourly labour rates from an independent shop shouldn't be any more than you'd pay at a Honda/Toyota dealership, for example.
There are a few known issues on early-model M3's, but even then they affect a small percentage of vehicles... you're not guaranteed (or even likely) to get one needing subframe repairs or VANOS failure or whatever else, especially if you have it inspected before buying.
Besides, you get what you pay for... the e46 M3 is a brilliant car. Even if it costs you a few hundred dollars more in maintenance every year, wouldn't you be willing to pay that for pleasure of driving it every day?
My e46, although not an M3, is reliable enough even with 140,000km on it... and it's a sheer joy to own and drive. I'd never trade it in for a lesser car even if it meant I'd save a thousand dollars a year on maintenance.
If it were as small as an extra 2k a year on maintenance, I wouldnt mind at all.
Its all the horror stories ive heard about M3's that ive heard about them having poor oiling problems in the block, that VANOS problem etc.
Ive owned hondas for the last 8 years though, so ive also been spoiled with cheap repair costs.
If it were as small as an extra 2k a year on maintenance, I wouldnt mind at all.
Its all the horror stories ive heard about M3's that ive heard about them having poor oiling problems in the block, that VANOS problem etc.
Ive owned hondas for the last 8 years though, so ive also been spoiled with cheap repair costs.
Most problems are on 01-02 models, IIRC, and even then they certainly aren't "common". There will be some lemons out there, no doubt, but if you do your homework and keep up with preventative maintenance I highly doubt you'll have any problems at all. As with any car, get a pre-purchase inspection and try to get a hold of maintenance records to ensure any recalls have been done.
90%+ of e46 M3's are still on the road without any major problems. For an $85,000 car (new) with outstanding performance, you're not likely to find anything that's much cheaper to own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darnold
You honestly think that sounds good?
Those clips sound like complete shit... No way would I invest in aftermarket pipes for an M3 after hearing that garbage.
I like the sound of the high-strung I6 engine with the stock exhaust. It can get a bit raspy at high-RPM but what do you expect? It's a 3.2L straight-6 that revs to 8300rpm or whatever, so it's not gonna sound like a 5.0L V8.
S54 motor was on the "best engines" award list four years in a row I believe. Not as smooth as the non-M straight-6's but still incredibly balanced compared to V6's and 4-bangers. The car is just a blast to drive, only other car that compares in terms of outright driving joy (for me, anyway) was the S2000. Except the M3 has torque, so it has usable power at the bottom end when driving around town.
If it were as small as an extra 2k a year on maintenance, I wouldnt mind at all.
Its all the horror stories ive heard about M3's that ive heard about them having poor oiling problems in the block, that VANOS problem etc.
Ive owned hondas for the last 8 years though, so ive also been spoiled with cheap repair costs.
you drive a 10 years old honda...
you probably can't even afford the engine oil needed in the M3 even if the car is given to you for free.
my 02 Carbon Black E46 M3 was the first batch of cars with SMG in HK, and so far only small electrical problems occurs till now (windows went down on its own, and alarm went off on its own) both fixed by BMW within a day. Other then the schedule maintenance and wear and tear (brakes, clutch, tires....etc) maintenance the car has been fine.
my 05 Silver Grey in van had absolutely no problem even after I drove it like I stole it most of the time. I even used the launch control almost daily. BMW even gave me a new clutch before the warranty period was over.
I like the sound of the high-strung I6 engine with the stock exhaust. It can get a bit raspy at high-RPM but what do you expect? It's a 3.2L straight-6 that revs to 8300rpm or whatever, so it's not gonna sound like a 5.0L V8.
the rasp is what make the M3 sound so good, especially mixed in with the ITB sound from the engine
even a 360 Modena's 3.6 high revving V8 is raspy as hell
you drive a 10 years old honda...
you probably can't even afford the engine oil needed in the M3 even if the car is given to you for free.
my 02 Carbon Black E46 M3 was the first batch of cars with SMG in HK, and so far only small electrical problems occurs till now (windows went down on its own, and alarm went off on its own) both fixed by BMW within a day. Other then the schedule maintenance and wear and tear (brakes, clutch, tires....etc) maintenance the car has been fine.
my 05 Silver Grey in van had absolutely no problem even after I drove it like I stole it most of the time. I even used the launch control almost daily. BMW even gave me a new clutch before the warranty period was over.
Half of the guys I work with drive diesel trucks worth at least as much as any e46 M3. Its not some kind of special exclusive car....
The rest of this post is most likely bullshit anyways lol.
the rasp is what make the M3 sound so good, especially mixed in with the ITB sound from the engine
even a 360 Modena's 3.6 high revving V8 is raspy as hell
Agreed. I actually really like it. Form over function. The nice thing about the M3, imo, is that it's very civilized when you're driving around town. It's quiet, comfortable, and won't bounce you around over every bump and dip in the road. Engine noise is audible under moderate acceleration, but just a pleasant grumble. The rasp of the exhaust takes over at high RPM's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by darnold
That sounds pretty badass!
Although straight pipes and wide open throttle on most engines with any sort of power will sound mean.
Sounds cool, but if that's the sound you're looking for then you will want to avoid driving within 10 miles of any police as you're absolutely certain to get pulled over. That thing was loud as hell, not something I'd want on a DD anyway. Not that it would ever pass AirCare anyway, so it's a moot point...
Quote:
Originally Posted by darnold
Half of the guys I work with drive diesel trucks worth at least as much as any e46 M3. Its not some kind of special exclusive car....
That's the point. For $25k you can own a very high performance luxury sports car, which means it's entered the "affordable" realm for many average people. It's not a 911 or an SL63, but it's very quick and very very fun to drive. Would you rather a diesel truck or an M3?
I own an e46 330ci and if M3's were only $25k back when I bought this car I would be driving one right now, no question about it. It's really a bargain for that kind of car. Very few other vehicles have the same balance between daily comfort/practicality and raw, high-revving sports car performance.
You could get a faster car, like a Z06, but would you want to drive it around town every day? Especially one that's 8 years old? I don't really mind the car overall, and there's no denying it's fast, but it's far less practical than an M3.
Although straight pipes and wide open throttle on most engines with any sort of power will sound mean.
Would love to hear some sort of mean sound from your B18C1 engine !
I've said that just to pick on you ! Just to let you know, I do have a B16 EG civic and a E46 M3.
Agreed. I actually really like it. Form over function. The nice thing about the M3, imo, is that it's very civilized when you're driving around town. It's quiet, comfortable, and won't bounce you around over every bump and dip in the road. Engine noise is audible under moderate acceleration, but just a pleasant grumble. The rasp of the exhaust takes over at high RPM's.
The M3 actually doesn't sound "happy" when you are driving it slow around town, it always want you to step on it harder, but once you step on it a bit, it opens up and the car itself will feel excited and will bring a smile on your face.
Although straight pipes and wide open throttle on most engines with any sort of power will sound mean.
having a open throttle and having independent throttle body is a big difference, not very many cars from factory actually have independent throttle body.
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