Fine, I'll answer. Yes I'll sit my ass down until things get to the point of no return.

Translation:
As long as situation has not escalated to violence, I will not provoke it. If does take that turn, then yes - survival instincts all the way. I don't care if you fight, I don't care if you play dead. But I only escalate when things are unsalvageable.


The reason why I'm getting into slavegeable vs. unsalvageable is because I think a lot of you are forgetting that in a hostage situation, you ARE the bargaining chip. Which means it is in the hostage taker's best interest to keep you alive as long as possible. So I don't see the sense of pushing a hostage taker to have to escalate the violence towards you and your peers.


Jesus. And your camp is accusing my camp that we're the selfish ones :rolleyes:

wow... i just read the last 2 pages, sooo much personal attacks...

everyone has their own ways to deal with situations. quick reactions maybe not always be good, some will be...

unless you have martial arts background or trained in hostage situations, never do anything and just listen, theres more of a chance of survival. just my thoughts.

dont' ever go phillippines
its shit there

I won't take the initiative, but if there was one hostage taker, someone jumped him and I was near by, I would jump in too.

The moment someone jumps the bad guy - that would be the point of no return for me.

^^ yeah. I wouldn't randomly jump the attacker but if all the hostages made a plan and we all understood that we could die at any moment then yeah, I'd jump in. I think when the hostage taker gets to the point of shooting hostages for no reason and the police still haven't done shit, then that's when you have to make a plan to take him down.

Thanks you finally. That's all I was looking for.

I want to know what would make someone get up to help. What everyone's point of no return is.

Mine would be after the first person got shot. But I would be on the edge of doing something beforehand. Very very edge. If any other hostage even winked or nodded at me... Let's play ball.
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What if it was a chick and she winked at you just cuz she thought you were cute? :p

I find it really entertaining that you view this as just a game and risk of life and death is just a trivial decision to you. Unfortunately real life isn't anywhere near CODMW2 where you can hit melee and you automatically warp onto the hostage taker for an auto-kill.

IMO, you only have the luxury to talk a big game because you can Monday Night Quarterback what you saw on the Philippine incident. I wonder if you'd still be as brave if your lone hostage taker also had a pressure trigger on explosive devices. Or if the hostage team was a multi-person crew.

It's going to take more than just a wink from another person to come out on top of the so many "what ifs" or unknown variables that can come into play.

Lots of resentment towards the Phillipines Govie. WELL F-ing DESERVED.

Let me propose another situation, Would things be handled differently.

If that bus was full of true-blood white American. Would the situation differ?
Would the situation be handled in a completely different manner? Instead of police, throwing glow sticks, or missing tear gas and leaving it on the ground.

Would the Army get involved?

Anyone?

i would jump the attacker only if
1) I know with very high probability I will be killed eventually. (i.e. you got kidnapped and the kidnapper showed you his face, or you are in a hijacked plane and you know the hijacker is trying to crash it)
or 2) There is a 99% chance I can subdue him in the situation.

pretty sure I wouldn't jump the attacker in this case because I would've believed the police will place a high priority on our safety, and are competent to help us out (which didn't turn out to be true, but you can't look at this retrospectively)

If you are in Canada, i'd say your chance of getting hurt in a hostage situation is pretty low.
they wouldn't have expected the Philippine police force to be so incompetent in the first place.

I don't play call of duty. The only game I play is life. If you haven't noticed life is a big game. A very serious game. And I took all those decisions very seriously. They're not trivial.
I can flip it back right at you. Who are you to decide to do nothing? Who are you to decide that doing nothing is better? For the exact reasons I can do the same.

Dude we're talking about THIS situation. If they had multiple guys or bombs your chances of survival if you fight are OBVIOUSLY less. I don't even think you're thinking at the same level as I am. You're on a totally different page.

You honestly don't get it. All those "unknown variables" are nothing. They don't mean anything. They are risks you have to take. Whether you choose to be idle or choose to take action. You're facing the exact same unknown variables as I am. You're taking a leap of faith hoping doing nothing will help. I'm just doing the exact opposite. The only difference is something aint gonna come outta nothing.

To answer your question, I would still be as brave if there was multiple gunmen and bombs. But I'd have to think of another strategy to fight back cuz I obviously cannot win at all cuz its a different scenario. Which requires a different strategy, a strategy that probaby will not work. I'm being realistic. Perhaps I'd think to myself, if most or all hostages are dead but me. Well fuck it. Martyrdom. If there's a bomb, my life is worth the sacrifice to take those motherfuckers out.
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If it was white Americans involved. Yes, the CIA may have pushed the Philippine Government for American intervention or the Philippine Army involved.

Yeah,the gunman would be fuckin crushed by the hostages inside. If they were true blooded americans, they would have done something. It's the fucking phillipines. Who in their right mind would trust their enforcement agency to do anything?
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The army getting involved wouldn't help. You forget that all those police officers have the same training as the army. They've all gone through it. Unlike canada they have to join the army. You'd have to get special forces or some force trained to rescue hostages. The only difference is the army and police there is, the army has bigger weapons, and they're more "kill first, ask questions later" which doesn't help the situation.
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Sorry if this was mentioned already but the thread was too long.

It was a sad day when I saw that on the news. R.I.P to the victims and my deep condolences to the families.

Now, dealing with the government and it's authority will take some time, and hopefully after all of the investigation done that they find the person who was responsible for the failure of the negotiations (as well as other things,) but I think that was the main focal point.

From what I've seen the news the Police in the Philippines are now training for various hostage situations.

This incident that had occurred reminded me of the Munich summer games which involved hostage taking by terrorist and I the GSG9 were formed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSG_9

And I think SWAT in the U.S was formed (or helped it form) after the Texas Sniper Massacre in 1966.

Guys, let your inner racism stay inside your heart.

I'm full blooded filipino and i'm very aware of how fking retarded the government in the Philippines are.. Specially the fking corrupt police or any type of security. They are corrupt coz they are poor. When you are poor, you do anything to make sure your family has food on the table and roofs over their heads. Like you guys, it irritates me how fking stupid they handled that situation, but keep in mind, it's a 3rd world country. To get real training you need MONEY, which they don't have.

That incident could've happened to any other country. You guys blow this out of proportion. How about those emo kids that spread bullets in school? Does that mean i shouldn't like schools because there is a chance that somebody is gonna start shooting because some kid couldn't handle being bullied anymore?

What about that korean guy that started shooting in school? should i hate koreans? Don't hate all filipinos because some ex-cop shot up tourists in the philippines. I admit those pictures taken by the bystanders after the incident is retarded. But that, in no way, shape or form, mean that all filipinos are like that..

Before you guys come out with opinions about a race, think about how that type of handling came to it's result. 3rd world country, means 3rd world government. Period.

God am i glad im in vancouver.

Hey! Let's talk about filipino celebs again!!


1) batista half
2) prince half
3) rob schneider half
4) nicole sczherzinger mixed

hmmmm, tere sure a lot of halfers... oh wait!!! PAQIAO! They should have sent him inside the bus! Him and Brandon Vera and ernie reyes jr!

they should've lol

What a bunch of fucking pigs. These guys need to get shot

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4712017_n.jpg

Hey I play that game too. Only I actually take mine seriously and the lives of others as well. In the right time I might risk my personal life against a hostage taker 1 on 1 but when other lives are at risk, I'm putting my ego aside and sitting this one through. With your mentality, Ulic, the police should just firebomb the entire bus and whoever survives, survives. Because if you're 40 yr old joe-blow and run up to 10-time award winning ex-cop with close quarter combat training hostage taker and run the risk of him further losing his mind and killing everyone else, then you're in the same boat with the police just firebombing the entire bus.

No - the unknown variables are there's a sniper with a clear shot at the target and you just stood up and blocked it. The unknown variables are he could have a trigger to a remote bomb that would detonate a highly populated building. If you don't think logically then you're more comparable to a dog than those who "sit". I don't know if you understand this but logic and reason has gotten people further than thinking and reacting by emotions, like apes or wild animals.

You forgot to mention one more thing - the difference is you're risking other peoples lives for a lower probability of success. You're betting families lives with the odds against you.

The hostage taker was cooperative at first, then when he was agitated, he started killing people. Do you see a link here? Agitate hostage killer = hostages killed.

If you're so pro survival, Ulic, why haven't you raised the possibility of negotiating with the hostage taker? Psychology is powerful, and although I'm not a psych major (I hope one can step in) I know that our brains are hardwired to resist killing other members of our own race. Therefore by talking to the hostage taker and making yourself and others more "real" to him, you can make him hesitant to pull the trigger, or at the very least, you can convince him to release the women and children. But why do that when you can gamble everyones lives? It doesn't matter if you fail and have others killed - cause you'll be dead anyways right?

Ulic, you can be my wingman anyday!

I sure hope that the picture of the President there is taken out of context and he wasn't smiling the entire time he was looking over the scene ... I don't like Aquino to start with but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt on these pictures ... but they are not looking good for him ...

^ He obviously wasn't smiling the entire time - he was most probably shitting and pissing himself about what happened.

Those pictures show just how retarded people can be. People can really be fucking dumb.

But I guess there will always be a handful of idiots and retards amongst any large group of people.

Exactly!

You're only talking about THIS situation because you have the luxury to Monday Night Quarter back it. What are the odds that most hostage crisis always plays out for you identitially?

Secondly you're the one who honeslty doesn't get it. Unknown variables are something and can mean everything. You're the one who already said you're just an army reserve. Rolando Mendoza has been a cop for all his career. What if he had hand-to-hand combat training? What if he had 30 lbs. on you? Sure you die and you don't care about that, but you've just escalated things for your other hostagees and the HRT's that have to deal with your mess. But hey, at least the honour and glory has been satisfied in your own personal pride is it not.

You see, you may play out the heroics in mind:

1. Grab M16 muzzle, point upwards in the air.
2. Free hand punch to midsection, disable attacker.
3. Wrestle rifle from surprised attacker, point rifle to attacker to subdue.
Summar Prognosis: I win, me macho, me get girls.

But I'll have to wish you good luck dude because I think you've been watching too much of Robert Downy Jr's Sherlock Holmes. :lol


Good for you.

If you're that so good, why not buy a scuba suit and fight crime for a hobby. I think the harder you try, the easier to see that your faux-machismo is resembling closer and closer to Bradford Chow ridiculousness.

You're going from one of the most notorious posters of RS to one of the biggest joke in RS. "I don't care, I could still take care of an army of hostage takers. I just have to adjust my strategy a little bit." :bullshit::rofl:

Somebody tried to confront the guy, and then got killed along with his family. They were Canadian citizens.