ok, sit it through, 8/16 dead. why don't you just flip a coin instead? the odds are the same right?

like i said, when it was 1/16, that's the point of no return, you better be willing to act then, which is what I'm talking about, and which is what i've mentioned so many times. but for some reason you guys just keep reading it over and trying to get that "at the beginning everything is okay".

NO SHIT everything is okay at the beginning, we're not talking about that.

my main point was, whether you'd get up or not to help if someone else did. and you guys just cant fucking seem to get that over your head. you don't have a choice.

I had to use the example of me, cuz that's a real life example. ME im a real person that would get up and do something once i feel the point of no return has passed, or if a miracle opportunity slapped me in the face before that point.

ok, forget everything i said. just say "some dude gets up and starts a struggle, what do you do?"
is that better? do i have to dumb everything down to fucking crayons for you guys to answer a simple question?

the point of me arguing isn't to prove which is BETTER, or what is RIGHT. the result is the result, it doesnt matter.

my point is to see how many of you guys are idle passive zombies that would gladly hand the responsibility of your own lives over to someone else, whether it be a cop or another hostage.

right back at you. unknown variable: oh maybe the cops suck. maybe the cops are ill equipped. maybe they're not doing anything. maybe the sniper isnt there. maybe the sniper never had a clear shot. maybe this maybe that. maybe the sniper's weapon is jammed. maybe this is the right opportunity? maybe if i take action in 30 seconds when he walks by me i can end this, maybe if i dont do anything he's gonna kill us all before the cops get in.

all unknown variables that i can throw right back at you.

maybe the bomb is already diffused. maybe there is no bomb. maybe the bomb is faulty?

i can go on and make a never ending fantasy excuse list too dude.

no, you don't know that it's lower. you'd only know it's lower if you were the gunman yourself. because only he knows what other people and what other weapons are involved. like we said, unknown variables. all you know is what you know around you when you're on the bus. and using your brain and cognitive abilities then, you have to make a split second, or split hour decision.

i'm betting not their lives on the odds of success, i'm betting that taking action (at an opportune time) is better than not taking action. and there's nothing you can say that can knock that rational thought out, cuz anything you use, i can use right back at you, like the above.



and like i said, we've covered the fact that most of you would do NOTHING, right? right.

so i revised the question. if someone else acted on your behalf, are you still going to do nothing?

the answer usually is, no, i will not do nothing, i will do something.

and that's ALL that matters in this situation.

yeah exactly
he was agitated... and then, 1/16 dead. thats the point of no return. we've already discussed this.

point of no return=take action right?
and after taking action, which someone else will do in your behalf cuz you guys said you'd just sit there, you're not going to sit there and do nothing right?

we've already covered this dude.

funny you mention that, i already thought of that yesterday.
i can't possibly type every fucking thing out. i'd be all 10 pages of this thread.
like i said, half of you can't think at the level i do.

yes trying to befriend him probably almost always helps... but how? cry? beg? yo buddy nice rifle. hey you're a handsome guy. oh you like soccer? i like soccer too! what are you going to do? ask him why he's doing this?

please tell me, how are you going to try to befriend a corrupt filipino cop thats holding you hostage?
so you open your mouth and then he slams the butt of his rifle to your face. ok gg, that didn't work.

scenario b. you suck his dick and he softens up a little.... then what? you're STILL at square 1. eventually you're going to have to fight him. cuz he aint gonna befriend you to the point where you're jerking each other off then he goes "ah it was worth a shot, alright you guys just go, i'll sit here and wait for my miserable death".

we all know after his brother got arrested he went berserk, nothing is gonna stop him after he blew that guys brains out. like i said before.

1/16, point of no return. you still gonna sit there?



the whole god damn point i was trying to make from the beginning is, whether people are just going to sit there with their thumbs up their asses waiting for their deaths, or take initiative when they have a chance. and by "when they have a chance" that is up to the person whether it is the right time or not.

you obviously take action when you're at the point of no return, we've all agreed on this one point, yes no? yes.

so im trying to find out where the point of no return would be for most of you. for me it would be 1/16. after that dude got shot. some of you agreed. some of you don't. for those of you that don't...

so im still fishing for when the fuck you guys are going to get up and take initiative. when is your point of no return? when are you going to actually get up and do something? when things are so dreadful, that everyone is dead around you, that you make a blind last minute move based on fear and not well thought out? like that old guy that blocked the bullets? yeah that was action, very useless and last minute, it didn't do jack shit. if you wait till that point, it's already too late. might as well pull your pants down and start jerking off cuz that's the last pleasurable thing you'll ever feel.

i'm starting to think, that if he executed every single person except one. and that one person being one of you disagreeing guys, you guys would still not have realised that the point of no return has long passed?

i wouldnt be surprised if most of you that disagreed would just sit there and let him shoot you, the last hostage in the back of the head, cuz at any moment the swat will come in, or that sniper will take that shot... right? haha..

I want to play arm-chair hostage taker vs Ulic

Me: Ex-Navy Seals hostage taker, armed with a M16, small .22 hand gun (hidden), knives, wits
vs Ulic amongst a bus full of Doctors, cancer researchers, women and children

1. I make reasonable demands
2. Police start complying with my demands, I get ready to release some hostages
3. I turn around to tell everyone they're free to go. I see Ulic running towards me with makeshift mace; shoe with shoelace tied to his belt, swinging around above his head, screaming "ARMY CADETSS!!!"
4. I punch him in the face, tell him to calm down because I'm going to let everyone go.
5. I start untying passengers
6. From behind I get choke held by Ulic
7. I put my foot behind him and twist my body, dropping him to the ground
8. Tell him that's his last warning.
9. Continue releasing prisoners
10. Ulic grabs my rifle and starts to expel my ammunition rounds into the ceiling
11. SWAT team outside thinks I began killing people already
12. SWAT team storms in shooting at both Ulic and myself, not caring about casualities because they have "Ulic mentality" once a person dies, shit hit the fan and it's okay for everyone else to die.
13. Collateral damage and a shit load of doctors, women and children were killed.
14. Ulics family ends up blaming his actions on video games, boot camp, testosterone pills, redbull, and lack of gf's

seriously nobody gives a shit what you guys would do if you guys were on that bus. this is about the hostage taking incident not to proof you guys' e-manhood.

99% of ppl will shit in their pants if this happen right in front of them. except that 1% being ULIC of course.

yeah it's true. no one does, except for these guys that keep replying, that's all that matters, it's gotten to the point where they don't even know what the point im trying to make is. I can start flipping this around and start throwing in really sarcastic remarks and troll them and they would still try to think of excuses.


no, you're putting words in my mouth retard.

i said i'd take initiative, get up and grab the m16, and do whatever i can to subdue him or kill him or whatever.

that was NOT the MAIN point which you guys STILL don't fucking get.


read my last post. it's about whether you guys are willing to get up.

YOU GUYS. YOU DISAGREEING GUYS.

i'm psychonauting you guys, im trying to figure out when your fucking brain will tick and you will GET UP.

i've told you when I will. you guys still are sitting there with your thumbs up your asses.

you wanna know what i thought?

1) get up grab m16 barrel and struggle with him
2) hope someone else has the balls to get up and take initiative.
3) hope we win.

now all im asking you guys is are you going to be that number 2?
ARE YOU?

or are you going to sit there and watch. if i win, ok great, we all live.
if i lose, and i die because no one else got up, you're going to regret for the rest of your life you didn't get up and help out.

that's all im trying to say.

you guys just keep fucking try to wiggle your way out of taking action. even when actions already been taken.

the whole point of this argument is just for me to know what kind of people are on this forum. the kind that kick back, or the kind that will get up and join.

i've confirmed this answer like 4 times now. but somewhere deep inside, i keep arguing because i know there's no fucking way all of you are that fucking useless.

how about i put a scenario in your face.

1) we're both hostages, along with another dude. the gunman tells us to pull our pants down and grab our ankles.

2) you look over and i refuse and i struggle.

3) the other dude takes initiative and gets up, we both struggle, but somehow we both die.

4) you pull your pants down and the next thing you know you're being anally raped. he finishes inside you once and then on your face the second time. you don't complain. cuz the swat is gonna come save you. he gets ready for a 3rd round. in your mind you think the sniper is gonna shoot him any moment. so you let him finish on your face again.

5) then he shoots you anyways.

6) your parents blame what happened because they've always thought you were a closet homosexual.


dude you're retarded.

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/5512/swatz.jpg
:troll: this is the phillipines army btw. so those of you that thought the army would come save the day... no.

Ulic the point of no return when I get up and do something it when I have a 99% probability of success. I'd rather be that 1/16 guy if it meant I saved the 15 others. I don't want to be that 1/16 idiot that caused the other 15 to die. I understand you can flip it both ways, you could say what if hes going to kill the other 15.

So in essence what you don't seem to understand is what DIFFERENTIATES both of our arguments is that on your side of the coin, YOUR ACTIONS will directly be responsible for the deaths of others IF you further agitated the hostage taker. However, by remaining passive, you're completely 100% free of negligence.

If you do understand this, and it's what you meant this entire time but couldnt put it in a 10 page essay (yea okay bud), then YES I AGREE if I was a marksman shooter and had my trusty .45 in my pocket and the guy who had already killed somebody and says he plans to kill more pretty soon, and I had a clear shot to the back of his head, I would take it. That would fall under the rarest 0.001% chance.

On the contrary if some idiot runs up and grabs his rifle in an effort to subdue him, ends up spraying at a bunch of families, you can bet that members of that family won't be too happy with you or yours.

Personally after shitting my pants I would try and make eye contact with other hostages to see if we can devise a plan.

I am agreeing more with ulic, so far. No matter how nice or pleasant the hostage taker is, he's still got a gun pointed at us and is threatening our lives.

It's a shitty situation to be in with lots of unknown variables.

1. He might kill us all
2. He might let us go
3. We can subdue him and survive
4. We can try and subdue him and he can kill us all

From the comfort of my couch, I have the mentality I would rather die in combat than die slaughtered like a cow.

I'm sorry but if I am on that bus I would consider myself dead first, and released second.
Posted via RS Mobile

that was a pretty vivid homosexual story there. you should consider writing homo-erotic novels, I think you have potential. But what I like best about this post is your childish retort "dude you're retarded" coming from the ONLY frustrated user on this entire thread. Why is it that Noir, myself, and others are not frustrated and resorting to immature slander? Because we think with logic and reason. You react with raw emotions. That's why you're using immature slander! It's actually quite funny that we've gotten you on this level. Or have you always been on this? Anyways, lets keep this on topic.

dude, then you answered it yourself. you're never going to get up cuz there will never be a 99% probability of success. im disappointed in your answer. honestly.

if my actions are "selfish". then your response is even more selfish.
you're willing to do nothing, just so you have 0% chance of getting any dirt and blood on your hands. if everyone dies by his hands or the cops, you're still not at fault right? no guilt right?

c'mon.


their families being "angry" at my family would be the last thing on my mind. that doesn't even matter. them being angry at my family has no effect on anything in this world at all.

if i were an outsider and because of you or someone else, that everyone on the bus got killed including someone i knew. i wouldn't be angry at that person at all. I would be angry at the fact that he didnt succeed, but i wouldn't put any blame on him at all. In my eyes he did what no one else would. he had the courage to stand up when everyone else puts their lives in the hands of fate.

exactly. you don't think a gunman has thought this through? well he had more time to think than all the hostages combined that's for sure. he's still the enemy.

it was a retarded answer, to your retarded reply. what else do you want me to say?

you're the first one to throw in these stupid scenarios.



you know put everything aside, the best idea i came up with was just to offer the gunman money. i'd offer him 500grand USD transfered to any account he wants. he knows he probably wont make it out. at least his family can have the money. it was also one idea i had yesterday. money is nothing anyways. fuck take a million i don't care. i can make it all back eventually. I don't know how the details would work, but i'd be willing to give that money with no regret and no hate. the scenario that put me into that situation was a million dollar experience anyway.

good read

^
dude i wholeheartedly agree with you.

the picture taking, all that shit i mentioned before, i just worded it differently. people from other parts of the world, operate differently from people here. you cannot expect everyone to be the same. them taking pictures may not be offensive to them. it is to us, but you know what, we're not them. different people, different places, different expectations.
it's ignorant and arrogant to think that they should follow our cultural manners and shit.

and yeah, from the start we all knew he wasnt gonna get his job back as a "cop". there's always more to the picture.

like eddy89 said, he felt weak that he couldn't do anything to save anyone's lives.

it's exactly how i feel, and that's why i decided that i would have taken action. it's not fun being in a situation like that where you know or think you could have done something better, and then you look back and realise if someone did, they probably would have gotten a better result.

whatever. there's really no point arguing anymore eddy89 basically ironed out all the details that i couldn't.

I just really hope in any scenario, if someone else does get up and even if it's a stupid thing to do, i really hope to god that one of you guys would get up. I know I would, even if it were the last thing i did, and if the last thing on my mind was :fuuuuu: ... i wouldn't regret it.

That's what I like about you Ulic! You think about yourself and what you value the most, not about the other passengers on the bus. People should be a little more selfish, a little more american these days. Us canadians are a little too nice. I wish I wouldn't regret having others killed at my poor decisions. Then I could fuck everybody over!

oppps forgot to quote

The media went to the SWAT team office and found their office is only a shed behind a building, where people were sleeping and chatting. All the guns are only locked behind a thin metal door

I totally support Ulic.


If you have time, watch this video

this guy was agitated the moment he killed the guy, so what then ? are you still going to sit on your ass and wait and see how this plays out?
this is like sticking a black guy with a m16 on a bus full of kkk's..ok not kkk's but white pople...you really think he's going to let you go? or he really gives a flying fuck about who you are?
yeah you go ahead and try your psychology shit and talk to him about how you guys are the same human race.

most of you will probably continue sitting on the bus and just waiting...doing nothing...then blam get hammered by the police or shot by them... what a great way to go

in the end most of you are just waiting for heroes, those heroes being cops or swat members....those heroes can cost you the lives of you and your family too, not just the guy who made an effort to save you. The cops aren't going to magically zoom in and blast the guy, their isn't a 99% chance of you surviving this shit like how some guys like skinnypup think. The cops are still real people, yes theres a chance their going to save you but maybe the chance was higher when he walked by you with his backturned.

Honestly most of the ones who are waiting are the selfish ones, not the "heroes" because you're not willing to sacrifice your life or put your life on the line for others. As long as nothing happens to you, you don't care. Just as Ulic put it, if theirs a car accident, those are the ones just standing idly not doing shit but watching and taking pictures instead of helping. Their also the ones who won't help you even if you're getting your ass beat, because they are too scared and will wait for someone else to help.

Wow. So many tough guys around here. I guess that's why the RS Beatdown Crew has so much credibility in real life doesn't it. :lol

The ex-cop didn't even kill the guy, the cops did. There's a video showing a bullet traveling thru the windshield of the bus and then hit the guy.

keyboard rambos

This is a useful video for mass shooting/murders like columbine where people are inevitably dead as soon as the shooter steps foot in the door. Do you have a video on how what to do when you're a hostage?

okay i'm not the strongest guy nor do I have any hostage experience or arm-chair CQC training. But next hostage situation with you and me in a bus, i'm going to run up to the guy and kick him in the balls then try and spit on his face so it blinds him, then bite his hand so he lets go of the gun. then i'll tell everyone to jump in. hopefully it works! if not, mah bad~

so what happens if the "tough guy" is wrestling with the hostage taker with the m16 and amidst the struggle gunshots spray everyone on the bus killing all the passenger's, can you rambo's live with that on your conscience?

What if you were within arms length of the struggle? Would you jump in to help, or do nothing?

You don't think we've thought of that?

Honestly, what's the point of arguing- You guys can sit there and watch. Make sure you don't be an idiot and stay where a bullet can easily hit you. Atleast brace yourself and get close to the ground.

lol @ people saying your a "tough guy" for trying to defend your own life

if i was on that bus i wouldnt give two shits about the other people, if the guy killed one person he's going to kill again so you might as well take the slightest advantage you have in attempting to stop him and hope that others follow your lead

sit in the back of the bus waiting for jesus to shine a light down on you until buddy turns around and unloads his whole magazine on helpless people who are too far back to do anything, that will be very effective.