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Sikhs Wearing Kirpans Turned Away At Quebec National Assembly

Quote:

QUEBEC — The debate on reasonable accommodation of religion differences in Quebec came into sharp focus Tuesday when four Sikhs were barred from entering the province's national assembly for refusing to remove their ceremonial daggers.

The four were coming to present their views on Bill 94, known as the niqab bill, which would require anyone dispensing or receiving government-paid services — including health and education — to show their faces.

"It is ironic that we were not accommodated at a hearing on accommodation," noted Balpreet Singh, one of the four Sikhs who showed up at the assembly wearing their ceremonial kirpans, secured under their clothing.

"It's (an) article of faith," Singh said, adding that Sikh men and women wear the kirpan all day, even in the shower and when they sleep.

"Accommodations have been made for the kirpan at the Parliament of Canada, at legislatures across Canada — B.C., Ontario and even at the Supreme Court of Canada," Singh noted.

"So we were hoping a similar accommodation could be made in Quebec."

Louise Beaudoin, chief provincial spokeswoman on Bill 94, defended the fact the four Sikhs were turned away.

"I agree with this decision," Beaudoin told reporters. "Security made this decision after reflecting and this decision is a good one."

On Tuesday, Beaudoin called Bill 94 "minimalist," and said the turning away of the Sikhs shows that the debate is broader.

In 2006, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled 8-0 that Gurbaj Singh Multani, a Montreal student, could wear a kirpan to school, that it was not a weapon and banning it would violate charter guarantees of freedom of religion.

"We did not agree with that decision," Beaudoin said. "We can disagree with the Supreme Court.

"Religious freedom exists but there are other values. Multiculturalism may be a Canadian value. But it is not a Quebec one.

"And we haven't signed the Constitution of Canada because it contains this notion of multiculturalism. I think we can be different."

Provincial Immigration Minister Kathleen Weil would not immediate comment on national assembly security staff's decision to refuse entry to the Sikh delegation.

"I would like to deliver a message to the Sikh community," the minister told reporters. "Quebec society is an open society, open to pluralism and that we will have an opportunity to exchange and that I hear their messages."

Without promising major amendments, Weil said she is open to clarifying Bill 94.

As the hearings ended Tuesday, Weil said most of those who had appeared agreed with the principle of equality of women and men and the idea that people must show their faces.

http://www.canada.com/life/Sikhs+wea...151/story.html

How stupid are people to actually think bringing these Kirpans around would be a good idea? Especially in Quebec where I don't think they are quite as accepting of different religions and whatnot.

I am all for protecting peoples religious freedoms but this is just asking for attention. Next thing they will want to take this on an airplane.

Quote:

"Religious freedom exists but there are other values. Multiculturalism may be a Canadian value. But it is not a Quebec one.

"And we haven't signed the Constitution of Canada because it contains this notion of multiculturalism. I think we can be different."

I fucking hate Quebec sometimes - I understand protecting your own identity, but they take it too far. If you don't think you belong in a country, just get GTFO.

I'm a Chinese guy - but one of my best friends is a Singh, so I understand completely where they come from. I agree, that sometimes, there are people who try to push the boundaries, but they would never be stupid enough to bring their Kirpan onto a plane. I think it's completely fine for them to bring it to the Quebec National Assembly.

That said, I agree with the bill. In Canada, we use our faces as a way of identification. If you want to receive Gov't Services, I see no problem with them wanting to check your identity first. We're not going to go with a biometric database because of this.

These threads on RS always end up in someone saying something about creating their own religion so they can carry guns around freely while completely missing the point behind allowing the Sikh kirpan.

Quebec is one of the main reasons Americans look at Canada and say, "lol, canaduh", the same way we look at Quebec and say, "lol, Quebecca".

Im quite surprised that Quebecers are so intolerant Albertans too

albertans intollerant?

you dont get basically refused service in Alberta for not speaking french :P

Quebec's like that kind of mentally challenged kid in elementary school whom everybody thought was just so weird, but was forced to play with them anyways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer (Post 7270733)

albertans intollerant?

you dont get basically refused service in Alberta for not speaking french :P

lol i guess ;)

i just remember having a discussion a couple years ago in a law class and the prof couldnt stand how racist/intolerant alberta is and it seemed every minority in class had a horror story about alberta

maybe they just made up stories to get on his good side ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by StylinRed (Post 7270729)

Im quite surprised that Quebecers are so intolerant Albertans too

http://images.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNew...8_430241.jpg?2

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottsman (Post 7270693)

What do you want them to do stay at home because there is know way they will remove there kirpans. At one point in India's history it was illegal to wear a turban and people would get money for bringing in a stick with a Sikh head on it, and still Sikhs would not take off there turban.

you're never gonna reach a overwhelming consensus in society of how accommodating a country's laws should be to certain religious freedoms

So....This one time...

Quote:

An Ontarian wanted to become a Newfie. He went to the neurosurgeon
and asked, 'Is there anything you can do to me
that would make me into a Newfie?'

'Sure it's easy.' replied the neurosurgeon. 'All I have to do is cut
out 1/3 of your brain, and you'll be a Newfie..'

He was very pleased, and immediately underwent the operation.
However, the neurosurgeon's knife slipped, and instead
of cutting 1/3 of the patient's brain, the surgeon accidentally cut
out 2/3 of the patient's brain.

He was terribly remorseful, and waited impatiently beside the
patient's bed as the patient recovered from the
anesthetic. As soon as the patient was conscious, the neurosurgeon
said to him 'I'm terribly sorry, but there was a
ghastly accident. Instead of cutting out 1/3 of your brain, I
accidentally cut out 2/3 of your brain.'

The patient replied 'Qu'est-ce que vous avez dit, monsieur?'

:troll:

honestly, quebec should leave canada, and take NB, NS, PEI and NFLD with them...

less paying welfare for broke ass eastern canada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by baggdis300 (Post 7270787)

honestly, quebec should leave canada, and take NB, NS, PEI and NFLD with them...

less paying welfare for broke ass eastern canada.

OK, Quebec can go to hell, but the Atlantic Provinces stay. Throughout our country's history, they sacrificed many lives to protect our way of life - the two world wars. quebec, on the other hand, not so much.

Strange how their roots are from a country that was invaded by Germany, yet they had no desire to liberate it. Then again, the country of France fell to the Germans in record time. Too much 'gay Paris' and 'can can'......... Napoleon must be rolling in his grave..... "mon dieu, my people they are a wimps."

If there were such a thing as a bridge across the Atlantic to Canada, it's a good thing the Atlantic Provinces are there first, 'cause if there were an invasion and the quebecois were our first line of defence, we'd be screwed - they'd surrender before the first shot is fired. LOLOLOLOL.

As far as I'm concerned New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, and Newfoundland will always be part of Canada. They have earned the right and we owe them big time. If it weren't for the geographical location, quebec would be so kicked out - give them to the US! See how far they get with the Americans. "We want to keep our culture" Hell, no......... you are now going to melt in our pot!

Seriously, I like quebec. Without them, we'd have no poutine.

Strictly from an outsider's point of view (in a sense), I've always found it amusing how much Canada puts up with Quebec. They act like a spoiled child or something, geez.

Quote:

We are not in India. Beheading people is slightly different from not allowing them to enter this assembly but I see how a reasonable person could make this comparison. :rolleyes:

I am not Sikh, but is it just as insulting to make someone take off their turban as it is to ask them to not wear a Kurpin? I am actually not really against people even wearing the Kurpins but common, pick your spots a bit better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottsman (Post 7270995)

The whole point is they will not take them off. What if a Sikh gets elected to the Quebec legislature? Are they going his constituents the right for representation?

There are 5 things a Sikh must have on them at all times:

Kesh- uncut hair and beard, and a turban, the crown of spirituality.

Kangha- a wooden comb to properly groom the hair.
Kachera- specially made cotton underwear.

Kara- a steel circle, worn on the wrist.
Kirpan- the sword.

removing a kirpan is the same as removing a turban.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic! (Post 7271016)

What if a Sikh gets elected to the Quebec legislature?

Largely academic since out of 130ish people I'm pretty sure there's only one with a non-western ethnic background, Iranian born Amir Khadir.

whoa whoa whoa . . . .

Quebec can :gtfo: , but at least leave the hot chicks behind. :troll:

White old people in Montreal are the biggest racist ever! I hate it when people tell me how nice it is in Montreal and how much of a party town it is here but the only place they have ever been to in Montreal is Downtown Montreal where the majority of English speaking people are. Sure the clubs and the night life here are way better then Vancouver but what major metropolis in North America isn't? One morning I was greeted with an awesome surprise! Turns out one of my neighbors hates me so much he went out of his way to order FRIED RICE and then proceeded to dump it all over my car! Awesome eh!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene (Post 7271029)

Largely academic since out of 130ish people I'm pretty sure there's only one with a non-western ethnic background, Iranian born Amir Khadir.

What if Tim Uppal, Gurbax Malhi, or Navdeep Bains, who are all Sikhs and are members of parliament want to visit?

Is this a ban on all knives of just knives being held by people wearing turbans?

I bet a catering company could bring in all the knives they wanted.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jassanova (Post 7270707)

completely missing the point behind allowing the Sikh kirpan.

There's no "point" to wear the kirpan. It is an outdated religious formality based on society values that are not shared today.

Religion needs to adapt to modern values.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic! (Post 7271016)

I have underlined the most often broken tradition by those who want to wear the kirpan. Why is this broken? Cause society pressure to look good has trumped religion.. and the same should apply to the kirpan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manic! (Post 7270761)

What do you want them to do stay at home because there is know way they will remove there kirpans.

I would not move to a country where I felt oppressed. Perhaps they should move "home" where the rules are more accommodating.

Multiculturalism makes this country great, yet that does not mean bending over backwards for every minor issue. Most Sikhs in this country get by just fine without the kirpan.