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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
It's a video discussing false flag operations with an ending suggesting there is something more to the collapse of WTC7. I used to be a Truther to some exstent before I actually looked into the evidence. As far as I know Joe Rogan is no more qualified to make conclusions of the collapse than I am. I've read the the findings of NIST report which can and does explain the causes of collapse and have spent quite a bit of time researching and discussing everything related to that day elsewhere. Its quite a massive leap in logic to suggest a total collapse event, which on the surface appears odd, is the result of some sinister conspiracy.
I am really surprised there are still truthers about this forum. Which revised version (due to actual evidence debunking the claims) of Loose Change are we on now? Pretty soon Loose Change will be nothing but an hour and a half of repeating the "False Flag Operation!" line from start to finish.
I used to be a sheep as well before i took a look into the "evidence". You are right in saying none of us are really qualified to make conclusions about this. We do owe it to ourselves though to come to our own conclusions based on our own research. The person who delivers the message, be it Joe fuckn Rogan, should not effect our perception of that message (in an ideal world).
I went through that NIST report and found some things to be odd;
- the report was conducted after the steel was recycled
- no physical testing was done but they spent countless hours/money to 'simulate' these easily duplicated events
- the evidence molten metal at ground zero was avoided
- the report was funded by congress (personal opinion that maybe science wasn't given the highest priority in this report
- the idea that because no explosions were heard therefore nothing was used to aid the buildings collapse ignored thermite entirely
(these were just things I personally noticed and is no way an exhaustive list of evidence)
Loose change was a poorly executed documentary which actually helps in dismissing conspiracy theorists as loony but still makes some good points.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangonay
Where is he discussing physics? I don't see him showing us any calculations or mathematics. Unless you think making statements like "why didn't the building lean or sway" to be "physics".
When some idiot talks about "controlled demolition", I refuse to listen to anything they say. The way I see it is if they're that fucking screwed to believe in one thing which is obviously incorrrect, then why should I believe in anything else they say?
When someone stops listening after hearing some key words I tend to think of that person as close minded. Saying that because you 'think' they're wrong about one things so that automatically makes them wrong about another is pretty backwards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by goo3
We don't design buildings like Jenga (Thank God). Your grade 8 physics isn't good enough.
This is the full report from NIST on WTC7. Read it. And no, too long is not an excuse.
I read that report. I hope you find the time to read the review of the report I posted above.
^ It's not closed minded to ignore someone who spouts bullshit. If someone tells me that 2+2=5, then I would never believe anything they say regarding mathematics.
You're a complete idiot for bringing up thermite and for listening to anyone who mentions thermite. I already completely owned numerous people on RS a few years back about thermite and showed how it was impossible for thermite to have been used. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON RS was ever able to counter my argument.
There's a reason for that. It's not because I'm Einstein. It's basic simple logic.
But hey, if you want to go ahead and explain some "discrepancies" about thermite, then please answer me this simple question: Why are consipracists so hung up on the fact that pyrocool was heavily used as a firefighting agent on the WTC buildings?
^ It's not closed minded to ignore someone who spouts bullshit. If someone tells me that 2+2=5, then I would never believe anything they say regarding mathematics.
You're a complete idiot for bringing up thermite and for listening to anyone who mentions thermite. I already completely owned numerous people on RS a few years back about thermite and showed how it was impossible for thermite to have been used. NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON ON RS was ever able to counter my argument.
There's a reason for that. It's not because I'm Einstein. It's basic simple logic.
But hey, if you want to go ahead and explain some "discrepancies" about thermite, then please answer me this simple question: Why are consipracists so hung up on the fact that pyrocool was heavily used as a firefighting agent on the WTC buildings?
Regardless, there are over 1,400 Professional Civil Engineers and Architects that agree something was fishy over the official statement of what happened.
Regardless, there are over 1,400 Professional Civil Engineers and Architects that agree something was fishy over the official statement of what happened.
Of course there are. People who believe in conspiracies come from all walks of like. So statistically there's going to be doctors, lawyers, engineers and the like that believe in them as well. Maybe they should start a petition asking people to sign if they don't believe the 9/11 controlled demolition theory, and see how many "professionals" sign that? I'd love to see the ratio of engineers/architects that believe vs those that don't.
And if the number of professionals who agree with NIST is higher than those that believe in controlled demolition, then what? Accuse those that believe in NIST as also being part of the coverup? Attack their credentials to show they are "inferior" engineers?
Have you read the "statements" by these professionals who signed the petition? Instead of saying something like:
Quote:
The WTC collapses are a rare and odd event and need to be studied further to determine why they fell the way they did.
They sound more like this:
Quote:
I have "known" from day-one that the buildings were imploded and that they could not and would not have collapsed from the damage caused by the airplanes that ran into them
That quote was the very first one I clicked on (right at the top of the list) for the profiles of the people that signed the petition. Randomly clicking through many more showed similar comments. Funny how so many "experts" who claim to be following the "scientific method" can make such a statement. Not very scientific comments to me.
And lastly, for the millionth time, how come none of the truthers want to talk about PYROCOOL? Cowards.
I wonder why the following Chinese building, literally lite up, didnt collapse? Dangonay your the smart guy here who likes to read and knows about this stuff, show these conspiracy theorist whose right. http://statismwatch.ca/2009/02/09/fire-consumes-beijing-skyscraper-unlike-wtc7-building-does-not-collapse/
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Because there wasn't an impact with jet fuel involved therefore the temps wern't nearly high enough to melt metal/structure. The WTC would not have collapsed under a normal fire with your run of the mill flamables in the building.
Anyone else seen the retard driving on the #1 with bumper stickers saying 911 was an inside job and holding one of the stickers with his hand hanging out the drivers window? Anyone else also notice that after the olympics we had all these 911 stickers plastered over our city? It's times like these that I wish I had a big bullhorn screaming NO ONE GIVES A FUCK.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arash
I wonder why the following Chinese building, literally lite up, didnt collapse? Dangonay your the smart guy here who likes to read and knows about this stuff, show these conspiracy theorist whose right. http://statismwatch.ca/2009/02/09/fire-consumes-beijing-skyscraper-unlike-wtc7-building-does-not-collapse/
I wonder why the following Chinese building, literally lite up, didnt collapse? Dangonay your the smart guy here who likes to read and knows about this stuff, show these conspiracy theorist whose right. http://statismwatch.ca/2009/02/09/fire-consumes-beijing-skyscraper-unlike-wtc7-building-does-not-collapse/
That's the problem with truthers - they pick odd examples and say "this one didn't collapse despite being on fire, therefore something's wrong with the WTC collapse".
The only way this argument would make any sense is if a building constructed the exact same way got hit by the exact same type of plane in the exact same manner, and had a fire in the exact same manner. Otherwise it's just apples and oranges.
As to buildings free-falling, I found several examples without much effort. 2000 Commonwealth Avenue and Skyline Plaza are good case studies as there's lots of information about them. Basically, the top floor fell onto the one below and started a chain reaction of floors falling onto each other causing the entire building to fall perfectly ending up in the basement.
This is something truthers say can't happen (buildings falling perfectly straight into the basement), when in fact it's happened numerous times around the world. Then again, since the buildings used as examples aren't as tall as the WTC was, then my examples have no merit and can't be considered.
@Death2Theft
I dont watch main stream news, what kind of plane hit the wtc7 building?
@dangonay
Its apples and oranges when one building is made of bamboo and the other made of steel.
Show us a link of your examples and how they collapsed into there footprint after a fire.
At the end of the day, I think you should take a basic physics class and even have your teacher explain how steel and concrete was pulverized straight to the floor at free falling speed. Then you can make an educated assumption on what happened on 911 and not blindly accepting what the television tells you.
other than building 7, the testimonies about an explosion in the basements before the planes hit and dick cheney's theory that a major terrorist attack would benefit the us, along with the norwood or whatever report in the 60s
the fishiest part about 9/11 was that they were running war games at the exact time of the attack, and their radars were scrambled to simulate a attack while a real attack was going on
Same thing with the London Bombing, there was a city wide security test going on and with the endless amount of cctv camera's, none were recording.
The most damming evidence against the official story is that the bombs had ripped upwards into the train from beneath the floor and not as if suicide bombers had walked and detonated bombs.
Nothing in the video is like the massive wtc7 building. There's a grainy photo of some toy factory that is suppose to compare to a building housing the mayors emergency command center, one that held numerous government agencies like "the Department of Defense, the CIA, the Secret Service, the IRS, and the Security and Exchange Commission".
Lets not forget Enron's criminal evidence, evaporated to dust.
"Enron's $63.4 billion in assets made it the largest corporate bankruptcy in U.S. history until WorldCom's bankruptcy the following year."
Anymore more disinfo videos you have?
@Death2Theft
@dangonay
Its apples and oranges when one building is made of bamboo and the other made of steel.
Show us a link of your examples and how they collapsed into there footprint after a fire.
At the end of the day, I think you should take a basic physics class
I gave you the names. Google them and you'll find your information. And I never said they collapsed from fires - I said that a single floor on the top collapsing on the floor below started a chain reaction that ended up with the building falling perfectly straight into the basement without leaning or falling over. These accidents happened during the construction of the bulding. Coincidentally, the first example was from a fire, since the supports for pouring the concrete were wooden timbers instead of steel commonly used today. The wind blew over a heater which burned the timbers causing the top floor to hit the one below and after that it was bye-bye to everything below.
These are actually very common accidents that happen regularly around the world. Anyone who builds high rise building knows that a sudden impact at the top could cause a chain reaction that brings the whole building down. Again, this is contrary to truther who would like to convince you a building cannot fall perfectly straight onto itself. In fact, it happens all the time. In the first example I gave you 4 workers on the second from the top floor died and their bodies were recovered in the basement. Imagine being on the top of the building and ending up in the basement. It's a conspiracy, I tell you.
You think I should take a basic physics class? Maybe I should, because my 9 years of university has obviously taught me nothing. Nor has my training in fire investigations and the numerous fires I've looked at over the years. I've seen steel melt and deform in fires with only a small amount of combustible material and a burn time of less than 20 minutes. Hell, I've seen ceramic items deform which are supposed to be good to around 1,200C (coincidentally, this is even higher than what temperature steel needs to melt).
I LOL when I read all the experts at the truther sites explaining how jet fuel can't burn that hot or that the fire in the WTC could have never reached temperatures hot enough to deform or melt steel. But what do I know. The thousands of pictures and hours of video from all the fires I looked at with melted/deformed steel mean nothing. I must have been imagining seeing it melt, because the truthers say it's not possible.
I should probably go back and tell ICBC and Transport Canada I'm no longer qualified to investigate fires on their behalf, since I have observed things that aren't supposed to happen (steel melting) - which must mean I don't really know what I'm doing.
That's the lead investigator for the NIST report. Does he look like he would lie to you?
The scope of the doc is: what happened to the building. It's not: what are all the possible ways we can think of to debunk conspiracy theories.
They're there to find our what likely happened. When they find sufficient evidence, they stop. It's not just them - it's you, me, everyone.. it's a waste of time/money/effort otherwise. Many things are immaterial to their stated purpose: Why didn't they do this, why did they ignore that, etc.. You guys have to show how your idea is significant enough to disprove their theory of how/why the building went down, not kill us to death by a thousand cuts.
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http://statismwatch.ca/2009/02/09/fire-consumes-beijing-skyscraper-unlike-wtc7-building-does-not-collapse/
