The Official 2011/2012 Canucks Thread

[411ken]

^ Well, this also helps Gillis' reputation as well.. Now the players know that MG didnt ask lu to waive his NTC after stating that he would never ask any player to do so... cuz at this point, if gillis asks him to waive the ntc, teams would still lowball him anyway as they know they wouldn't want to keep both goalies

I don't expect to get a top6 Fwd or D for Lu... I'd be happy with a prospect/picks if that's the best they could get for him and just spend on freeagency

[SkinnyPupp]

One thing they could do is dump him for prospects and go for Parise, but that seems pretty risky. Suter is out there too, but IMO they need offense more than D

[411ken]

IF for example Burke trades Gardiner + pick or whatever for Luongo.. We could then try and sign Schultz who's a close friend by gardiner.. We can then trade Edler for Jordan Staal. To start off the off season moves

Sedins/Burr
Booth/Staal/Kes
Higgins/Lappy/Kassian
Pahlsson/Malhotra/Raymond

Hamhuis/Bieksa
Tanev/Salo (if he signs) or Ballard
Gardiner/Schultz

Schneider
Lack

Maybe Weber would want to join after

[SkinnyPupp]

The more I think (and read) about it, the more it seems like they won't get anything for him anyway. Prospects or an early 2nd rounder maybe?

The free agent market looks decent this year, who knows

[twixxer]

So now Lu is asking for a trade.

Luongo willing to waive NTC for Leafs - sportsnet.ca

[sonick]

Willing to waive NTC, submitting a list of possible teams of interest, and requesting/demanding a trade are different things. Too many attention-grabbing headlines floating around right now it's not clear exactly what's going on short of Luongo submitting a list of teams he may be interested in being traded to.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by sonick

Willing to waive NTC, submitting a list of possible teams of interest, and requesting/demanding a trade are different things. Too many attention-grabbing headlines floating around right now it's not clear exactly what's going on short of Luongo submitting a list of teams he may be interested in being traded to.

The thing is, was he asked officially "will you waive your clause" or did he go to them and tell them to move him? Maybe it's semantics, someone had better clear things up though!

[sonick]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

The thing is, was he asked officially "will you waive your clause" or did he go to them and tell them to move him? Maybe it's semantics, someone had better clear things up though!

Gillis has said he will never request anybody to waive their NTC, so would be pretty bad (especially to future potential free agents) if management did officially ask him to waive it.

It could very well have been just a mutual understanding where Gillis never outright asked him to waive and Luongo never demanded to be moved... Something like, "I am open to the possibility of being traded and would waive the NTC should it come to that; here's a list of teams I'd be interested in being traded to."

[SkinnyPupp]

MG on 1040 right now

"*sigh* I'm not quite sure why something like that would be out there"

Says they are going to take a couple days to collect thoughts, and meet next week

No decision on whether he's keeping Lu or Cory

Someone's lying (my bet would be Big Mike)

[highfive]

Gillis on Team 1040 right now.

Asked about Luongo's meeting. He only said there was a meeting. Going to have a phone call conversation with him in a few days.

So take it whatever ways. I'm surprised that Luongo asked for a trade even though it's from Krypreos...

If the Leafs truly wants a good goaltender such as Luongo.

I wouldn't be surprised if we get players like David Steckel, Gardiner / Franson, and a pick / prospect (Colborne).

Imagine our line of Jensen Colborne Kassian....Damn... lol

[Noir]

Originally Posted by 411ken

^ Well, this also helps Gillis' reputation as well.. Now the players know that MG didnt ask lu to waive his NTC after stating that he would never ask any player to do so... cuz at this point, if gillis asks him to waive the ntc, teams would still lowball him anyway as they know they wouldn't want to keep both goalies

I don't expect to get a top6 Fwd or D for Lu... I'd be happy with a prospect/picks if that's the best they could get for him and just spend on freeagency

Good luck.

The fact that he takes parting shots at ex-players he just dealt in an effort to save his own skin isn't really reverberating well around the league right now; or in the public opinion outside of the Canuck fanbase.

God I hope this copycat GM wannabe gets sacked too.

[UFO]

Luongo willing to waive NTC for Leafs - sportsnet.ca

Vancouver Canucks goaltender Roberto Luongo confirmed with Sportsnet's Dan Murphy Wednesday night that the Maple Leafs are on the short list of teams he will waive his no-trade clause for. The Tampa Bay Lightning are also said to be on the list that Luongo will reportedly file to Canucks general manager Mike Gillis early next week.

According to Sportsnet’s Nick Kypreos, Luongo told the Canucks in his exit meeting that he would welcome a trade.

To me, that's not a lot different than what he said in his interview a couple of days ago of not standing in the way if the team has a move to make. Saying he 'would welcome a trade' is not the same as demanding a trade. Saying that TML are on his short list of teams he would accept moving to is not the same as asking to be traded to that team.

Or maybe I'm just being naive here, haha. MG did imply Kesler isn't going anywhere, and Manny appears to have a spot next season.

regarding Kesler's shoulder injury, I wonder if that was from when he got Kronwall'd in February.

[jeedee]

Originally Posted by 411ken

IF for example Burke trades Gardiner + pick or whatever for Luongo.. We could then try and sign Schultz who's a close friend by gardiner.. We can then trade Edler for Jordan Staal. To start off the off season moves

Sedins/Burr
Booth/Staal/Kes
Higgins/Lappy/Kassian
Pahlsson/Malhotra/Raymond

Hamhuis/Bieksa
Tanev/Salo (if he signs) or Ballard
Gardiner/Schultz

Schneider
Lack

Maybe Weber would want to join after

Sorry but that defense is absolutely horrible lol

I wouldn't give up on Edler just yet

[MR_BIGGS]

After hearing Luongo's presser, I don't think he asked for a trade nor do I think that was made public. Kyprios is speculating based on what he heard from Luongo the other day. He was on a Toronto radio station, and said "Luongo essentially asked for a trade," the key word being essentially. It is pure speculation at this point, although the writing is on the wall.

Gillis will get more from Schnieder. If a GM gets desperate and offers a lot of Cory, you have to think Gillis goes with that. Gillis said he wants to get younger, so maybe he'll use Luongo to get some picks and prospects, freeing up cap space. Who knows. It's going to be an interesting off-season though.

[UFO]

Originally Posted by jeedee

Sorry but that defense is absolutely horrible lol

I wouldn't give up on Edler just yet

Its not so much giving up on Edler, but taking a look at what he can return in exchange. I don't think we bring in a second line center and bump Kesler to the wing though, we could have kept Coho if that was the case

Gardiner has been solid, no reason he can't play or handle top 4 minutes and responsibilities. The same has been said of Schultz

[Tim Budong]

Lou is a Canuck until the deal is done
thats what I will say

As of now, there really isn't a "right deal" until every single player is given a good look on our roster. Same goes what assessing what went wrong, injuries and going forward with each and every individual on the team.

We all know that the exit interview was private, and the media spins words to sell. Lou confirming with Murph in regards of the Leafs being on a list is just that. Theres a list. Lu is a professional, and if he stays, he's going to be the same player we all love(or to some assholes, love to hate)

Other concerns are there as well. The relationship between Aquilini and Luongo. Will that get in the way? It would be ideal that ownership doesn't get in the way of hockey decisions, but there will always be that possibility.

[RiceIntegraRS]

Why are we debating if luongo asked go be traded or did he waive his ntc or MG asked him to waive it. Anybody with a pea brain knows its pretty irrelevant. Its only the media trying to blowup a story over nothing.

[Eastwood]

I won't be surprised if we keep both goalies actually. What happens in the event that no other GM offers Schneider a ridiculous salary knowing that Vancouver probably will resign him? We will be able to resign Schneids at a low salary cost. Won't we keep both Schneids and Luongo?

[highfive]

Originally Posted by RiceIntegraRS

Why are we debating if luongo asked go be traded or did he waive his ntc or MG asked him to waive it. Anybody with a pea brain knows its pretty irrelevant. Its only the media trying to blowup a story over nothing.

I agree. Media is always there to fuck things up.

The AV comment on Kesler earlier in the year.

The question asked from the reporter was, coach, what do you think Kesler can do to be better? AV said Kesler should use his wingers more etc...

Then some reporter goes to Kesler and say AV said you should use your wingers more....

It's almost like I go ask you guys what clothes should girls wear to look hot? You say in lingerie. Then I go tell your wife/gf that you like girls in lingerie?

Fucking media.

[411ken]

Originally Posted by Eastwood

I won't be surprised if we keep both goalies actually. What happens in the event that no other GM offers Schneider a ridiculous salary knowing that Vancouver probably will resign him? We will be able to resign Schneids at a low salary cost. Won't we keep both Schneids and Luongo?

How much do you think Schneids would sign for? I'd rather just keep 1 and use the Lu salary for some more offense and what not... just me though. .but who knows.. maybe MG is willing to give this core 1 more shot at it and he just adds another piece or 2 via trades

[SumAznGuy]

Since Schneider is an RFA, if another team gives him an offer sheet and the Nucks choose not to match, would that other team have to give the Nucks anything back?

I remember there was such a thing but I can't remember exactly what the rule was.

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Since Schneider is an RFA, if another team gives him an offer sheet and the Nucks choose not to match, would that other team have to give the Nucks anything back?

I remember there was such a thing but I can't remember exactly what the rule was.

depends on the salary

$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation

$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick

$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick

$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick

$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick

$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks

and yes. The decision needs to be made at the draft going forward... Im posting the entire fucking article here.. its long... but worth your time in understanding Cory's RFA status... Time isn't really on OUR TIME... especially with the looming CBA expiry. Teams do that have that cushion before a certain date to fix up the cap...


The Complete Guide to Cory Schneider's Upcoming Restricted Free Agency | CanucksArmy

Stud goaltender Cory Schneider is having another standout campaign backing up Roberto Luongo in Vancouver. This season, Schneider has appeared in 26 games, he's sporting the third best save percentage of any NHL goalie with more than 20 starts, and in terms of his quality-start percentage: he's been more reliable between the pipes than Luongo. Schneider is young, he's smart, he's articulate, and his goaltending mechanics are impeccable. At this point, it's not a stretch to list Cory Schneider among the league's best young goaltenders, and with his contract expiring this summer the notion of adding Schneider to the roster has opposing teams and fan-bases salivating.

Take Tyler Dellow and Jonathan Willis, two of the smartest Oilers fans out there, who have actively fantasized about the Oilers signing Cory Schneider to an Offer Sheet. If you're a team that needs to address your starting goaltending, you're not going to do better than Cory Schneider this offseason. Yes, there's a chance that Cory Schneider could take up the starters mantle in the postseason for the Canucks; but with Roberto Luongo's immovable contract on the books through the return of Christ, it remains very likely that Schneider will begin next season wearing colours other than Canucks blue.

But how will that process unfold? Will any teams sign Cory Schneider to an offer-sheet? Will he be taken to arbitration? Will he be dealt at the draft? Read past the jump for your complete guide on Cory Schneider's impending restricted free agency.

Before we begin, I need to mention that in writing this blog-post I am deeply indebted to the guidance of BeantownCanuck. I'm reluctant to list him as a co-author (in case he hates the blog post) but that's how important his contributions were. Needless to say: I couldn't have navigated the CBA legalese without him.

THE DRAFT AND THE MARKET

Most observers expect that Cory Schneider will be dealt at this year's NHL entry draft which takes place on June 22nd and 23rd in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Generally speaking, teams are flush with cap-space at the draft and are looking to build their roster long-term. For teams looking to address a need in net, Cory Schneider will be the most coveted asset.

Mike Gillis isn't a stranger to making draft day deals. In 2010 he completed probably his worst trade as General Manager of the Canucks, when he acquired Keith Ballard and Victor Oreskovich from Florida while sending a conditional first round pick (Quinton Howdon), Michael Grabner and Steve Bernier to the Panthers. That deal is among the few blemishes on Gillis' record as Canucks GM (I'd also include the Luongo contract, and the Mathieu Schneider experiment), so he'll look to do better this time around.

Realistically, there are five major teams that meet the criteria of being a) desperately in need of addressing their goaltending situation long-term and b) a team that the Canucks would likely trade with. Those five teams are the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Tampa Bay Lightning, the New York Islanders, the Columbus Bluejackets and the New Jersey Devils. The Bluejackets are in the West but will need more than a goaltender to seriously trouble the Canucks, and they'll likely be in a different conference soon enough as a result of realignment. I'd put three other teams (Winnipeg, Washington and Phoenix) as possible long-shots who could conceivably make a bid.

The Canucks will likely be looking for some combination of a high first round pick, and a young roster player (preferably a right-side Defenseman). Gillis will hold an auction of sorts, and almost assuredly, he'll deal Cory Schneider (or in a less likely but still feasible scenario: Roberto Luongo) on the 22nd of June to the highest bidder.

QUALIFYING OFFER

If the Canucks don't move Cory Schneider at the draft, they'll need to send him a qualifying offer by 5:00 PM EST on June 25th, per section 10.2 (a)(ii)(B) of the CBA. Assuming Gillis doesn't "pull a Tallon," the Canucks will absolutely do this. Because Cory Schneider's base salary (900,000 this season) is between 600,000 and 1 million dollars, his qualifying offer must include a 5% bump to his current salary, which means the value of the qualifying offer will be at least $945,000. Schneider will, of course, not accept the team's qualifying offer meaning he'll become a Restricted Free Agent at 12:00 AM EST, on July 1st.

THE WINDOW

This is the most interesting part of Schneider's RFA status. The Canucks will have a 24 hour window between 5:00 PM EST on July 5th and 5:00 PM EST on July 6th in which they can elect to take Cory Schneider to binding salary arbitration (see: Secs 12.1(b) and 12.4(b) of the 2005 CBA). If the Canucks exercise their right to take Schneider to arbitration, he is then forbidden from negotiating with any other teams according to section 10.2 (a)(i)(B) of the CBA, and he cannot be signed to an offer-sheet.

Here's the rub though, in the intervening five days between July 1st and July 5th - Cory Schneider will be a standard group two restricted free-agent and opposing General Managers will be free to negotiate with him and ink him to an offer-sheet, which, the Canucks would then have a week to match.

WORST CASE SCENARIO: THE OFFER SHEET

Now, Cory Schneider being signed to an offer-sheet is the worst possible outcome for the Canucks for several reasons. First of all, matching any offer-sheet extended to Cory Schneider would be unappealing from a spending efficiency perspective. The Canucks already have Luongo's 5.33 million dollar cap-hit on the books and, frankly, spending 8-9 million dollars, (or well over 10% of next season's expected cap) on the club's goaltending tandem is totally unjustifiable.

Also, persuant to sections 10.3 (a) and 10.3 (b) of the CBA, once the Offer Sheet is signed, the Canucks would be unable to move Cory Schneider for one year from the day they matched the deal. In other words, they couldn't match a Cory Schneider Offer Sheet and then turn around and trade him for a dream package from Tampa Bay: they'd have to swallow the bitter pill for at least the entirety of the 2012-13 season. In too many ways, the Canucks would be handcuffed if Schneider was signed to an offer-sheet, and would be very unlikely to exercise their right to first refusal.

To make matters worse, any draft pick compensation coming back the Canucks way from a Cory Schneider Offer Sheet would be only moderately attractive. Here's how draft pick compensation for restricted free-agents worked last summer (these parameters are set by average salary, so we won't know what this summer's draft pick compensation numbers will look like yet):

$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation

$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick

$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick

$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick

$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick

$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks

Cory Schneider is a valuable trade chip, but with only fifty career starts under his belt and one career playoff start - how much is he worth as a restricted free-agent? Bearing in mind that an opposing general manager would need to make the offer "toxic" to discourage the Canucks from matching the deal, and we can expect that Schneider would garner an offer-sheet worth more than 3.13 million dollars. This means the Canucks would probably receive a first and a third round pick in 2013 if Schneider were to be poached by an offer-sheet. That's hardly the game-changing return the Canucks brain-trust has in mind for a blue-chip asset like Cory Schneider.

If a team signs Cory Schneider to an Offer Sheet, the Canucks would find their options severely limited. If Vancouver chooses not to match the deal, the return is pretty meagre. If the team does match the Offer Sheet, then they'll find themselves restricted in terms of their available cap-space, and in terms of what assets they're permitted to trade next season. While the team's resident capologist, Laurence Gilman, can probably navigate around these seemingly insurmountable restraints, a Cory Schneider offer-sheet remains a functional disaster scenario for the team.

ARBITRATION

Much of the material you'll find below is paraphrased from Dirk Hoag's handy-take on the arbitration process. Dirk Hoag's "On the Forecheck" blog covers the Nashville Predators, and is perhaps the gold-standard for team blogs. Follow Dirk on Twitter.

If, by some act of the god, Cory Schneider made it to July 5th without being signed to an Offer Sheet then the Canucks would surely exercise their right to take him to binding arbitration. Because it would be team elected arbitration, Schneider would have the right to decide between a one or two year award, and the young goaltender would surely choose a one year award since he's eager to be a full-time starter in the NHL (section 12.9 c). The Canucks would not have the right to "walk away" from the award (like the Blackhawks did with Antii Niemi) since they would have been the ones who requested the hearing (12.10 e).

In arbitration, both sides present evidence in support of their preferred salary figure. Admissible evidence includes statistics, history of durability, length of service to the team, the players "contributions" to the "success or failure" of the club in question, public appeal and the salary and success of comparable players (who also signed their deals as group 2 free-agents). Niemi's arbitration award, James Reimer and Corey Crawford are the most obvious comps.

Cory Schneider has a lot going for him: he's posted great numbers, he's had success at every level and he has oodles of charisma and public appeal. His durability would probably come under some fire during an arbitration hearing (remember when he left game six against Chicago because of cramps?), but I doubt that drawback would carry too much water. If Schneider ends up going to arbitration, his award will likely hinge on whether or not he gets a few starts (and performs well) in the postseason. If he does, then Schneider's side will easily win the "contributions" to the "success or failure" of the club argument. I'd expect Schneider to receive an award in excess of 2.5 million, and probably in the range of 2.8-3.25 million dollars in arbitration, but if took over the starters mantle and led the team on a deep playoff run, I could see him being awarded as much as $4 million.

FULL CIRCLE

Having gone through these scenarios, it becomes plain that the only appealing option for the Canucks is to trade a goaltender at the draft. In all likelihood, it will be Cory Schneider who gets dealt - he's younger, he doesn't have a contract to weigh down his value and he'll the net the team a considerably more valuable return than Roberto Luongo.

Is there a chance that Cory Schneider ends up taking Luongo's job in the postseason, and distinguishes himself to the extent that Gillis scrambles at the draft and spruces up a Roberto Luongo package with extra assets to incentivize the likes of Steve Yzerman to swallow Luu's contract? Sure, it's possible, but needless to say: it's a long-shot.

Either way, this much is crystal, sparkling clear: Mike Gillis is going to hold an auction and trade one of his goaltenders at the draft. We know this for sure because in the history of the current CBA, only one restricted free-agent has been signed to an offer-sheet in the five day window before that free agent's team could exercise their arbitration rights. That free-agent was David Backes, and the offer-sheet he signed (and that St. Louis matched) was offered to him by Canucks General Manager Mike Gillis. If there's an existing loop-hole in the CBA, you can bet that Mike Gillis has already exploited it, and the "little known five day window before arbitration" loop-hole is no exception.

Mike Gillis knows what the stakes are headed into this June's draft. He knows that he can make a good hockey trade and acquire valuable assets in exchange for Cory Schneider, and he also understands the risk that he assumes if he fails to move a goaltender in Pittsburgh. For the next three months, the Canucks boast the best goaltending tandem in the NHL, but we know that on June 22nd one of those goaltenders - probably the one named Cory Schneider - is going to be moved.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

Since Schneider is an RFA, if another team gives him an offer sheet and the Nucks choose not to match, would that other team have to give the Nucks anything back?

I remember there was such a thing but I can't remember exactly what the rule was.

The other team has to provide draft picks to the Canucks as compensation, and the number/type of picks depends on how much the new contract is worth.

[Mike Oxbig]

schneider has to be resigned before luongo is shipped out, IF we decide to keep schneider. Our D look weak! Only team thats stacked with tradeable defence is toronto

everyone says schenn sucks

[mb_]

^draft picks depending on how much they offer

Edit: too slow lol