BEWARE: Regency Infiniti Set me Up by Forging Document

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by Soltaaa

as soon as theres a thread involving dealership jgresch flys in like a hungry badger and throws answers left right and center

lol. then lowside comes in and tells me i'm wrong where is thesalesman?

[BlackZRoadster]

Car dealerships don't intend to make a living based off of client's non-refundable deposits. If they did, they would be out of business very fast.

Think about it this way, if you buy a house and you propose an offer, you are obligated to put down a deposit with subjects after the offer is accepted. If all your subjects are met and you decide to "change your mind", you will not receive your deposit back.

Deposits after a deal is agreed upon is so people don't back out of a deal for whatever reason. Unfortunately in our society, money talks, and only offers with monetary backing is considered. When i buy cars, watches, or toys etc. If i put down money and cancel, I'm expecting its gonna be hard to get my money back. I would be ashamed to ask for it back too, because I would feel bad for wasting a person's time.

My pet peeve is spending hours with a client, meeting their expectations in price/car/service, only to have them back out the next day because their plans changed.

Next time any of you walk into a place of business, please consider the salespersons time, and your own time that is wasted. Don't sign a deal unless you are ready to back it up. If you can't back it up, don't go complaining. It's called putting your money where your mouth is.

[Jgresch]

Bah the worst was coming back the next day and the sales manager tells you the customer had come in to take back their deposit without letting you know and youre just like well fuck.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by lowside67

That is not true at ALL - you are crazy to sign ANY contract without having a copy of it. You are well within your rights to request a copy of the bill of sale that stipulates what you and the dealership have agreed upon.

Mark (10 years in the car business)

Thanks. But I do not understand what is not true in your sentence. I guess that you are saying what the salesman says is not true. I think the information on VSA said that if I was not provided with the copy the contract is not even effective. If they do want to enforce a nonrefundable deposit agreement, how can they "forget" giving me the copy?

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

This is what happened with my Morrey Nissan experience back in 2001. I heard rumours that Nissan was going to have an SE-R sentra for the 2002 model year and I called Morrey to talk to a salesman about it. The guy knew nothing about the car and took down my info.
When Nissan offically announced the SE-R, a salesman called me to see if I was still interested in the car. Then he said I would need to put down a deposit to be first in line for the car when they arrived.
This was done over the phone and I never signed any paperwork.

When the car arrived half a year later, I was excited to go pickup the car. I went on a tuesday but the sales manager was away and I had to return the next day to fill out the paperwork. The price was MSRP plus freight and pdi.
The next day, the paperwork showed the car was MSRP plus $1000 plus freight and pdi. The extra $1000 was because they wanted to gouge a little bit extra since demand for the car exceeded supply.

I talked to the sales manager and even threated to go to the news and BBB but his answer was "talk to my lawyers". Then I asked for my deposit back and he said deposits were no refundable.

I was young and didn't know that wasn't true so I didn't fight to get my deposit back.

It wasn't until I took pictures of the "lowest price guarenteed" sign on their lot that they agreed to sell me the car at the original price. And it was the receptionist that called me to fill out the paperwork, and the sales manager never appologized.

How young were you back then?

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Berzerker

I still have no idea why a "deposit" is even requested when supposedly you can get that deposit back without issue. What's the point of the deposit in the first place if they have to give it back if you change your mind? I guess to "hold" a certain vehicle?

Berz out.

That is actually a good question. In fact if you do not have deposit agreement which clearly states terms and conditions of the use and refundability, it means nothing. It is just a word and an amount of money. Now as you guys can see, I do not speak perfect English, I can even interpret it as "deposit" in a bank which can be withdrawn or pays an interest. Without written terms and conditions, it means NOTHING. When you file the complaint on VSA, they will ask you whether you have a deposit agreement or not. I have not seen any dealership which give a deposit agreement. Remember, it is not part of the purchase agreement.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by parm104

A deposit is probably more of a psychological thing. It's a better than nothing sort of aspect from a sales point; at least a dirty sales point. Similarly, electronic stores would prefer that you put down at least a layaway on a product rather than walk out empty handed because it gives them some gross margin for that day.

I'm sure the car dealerships hope that a handful of people who put down deposits, PROBABLY think it's non-refundable as it is. Thus making them naive and not realizing they can still back out.

Another reason why the deposit could be used is so that they can then call other clients and say "Hello Berz, a gentleman has put down a deposit on this vehicle..." to gain your interest more and make you feel like you might've missed an opportunity.

Yes. That is how they rip us off. I can not believe this is happening so widely.

[Jgresch]

use Multi + button to highlight a bunch of posts then reply all at once

[legalaction]

I originally came from a country with much weaker legal system so I trusted the law and justice in Canada. Even in my home country, such behavior will not be tolerated, though you might have to resort to other means than a legal action. I came to Canada because I am not accepting the status quo there, now stop telling me in Canada things are even worse and all dealerships are the same. The judicial system exists and people will be sued for their criminal actions. I have seen a lot in my home country and I do not even believe it there, how can you guys be so pessimistic and cynical?

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

worked almost every position at a dealership minus service.





... I didn't realize it was a bill of sale that you filled out. On our bills of sale in the fine print it is printed that any partial payment is not refundable. We have run into problems a few times and end up returning this, but by the time the buyer gets to the bill of sale they are aware they have bought the vehicle.

@ Lowside, you're right, but doesn't it seem weird that they would do up a bill of sale and not give him a copy?

Jordan (Only 7 Years in car business )

No, the title was " MOTOR VEHICLE PURCHASE AGREEMENT", not a bill.

[Phozy]

He wants posts

Yeah, just be aware. Before signing, read thoroughly, and like the above post, think twice before wasting your own/ someone else's time. Then ask for a copy of it, make sure its the same, and be confident you have already made the choice, no going back.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Adding to this....

A deposit means that the customer has something tying the to the dealership. They can't just leave and never return now, even if they want to back out, they have to come back so the salesperson/manager have one last crack.

Also it might be hard for some to ask for a deposit back, maybe a shameful thing for some?

It also shows that the customer is at least a little bit service and that they're ready to do business.

Yes all you said is the reason why they want to take the deposit. However, none of these has any legal obligation unless there is a deposit agreement clearly states the definition, the terms and condition of "deposit". I am not a native English speaker, but as far as I know, the word "deposit" has so many meanings. Even in auto transactions, it can mean different things. It is the car dealers who want to confuse these things by using just one word.

[Quacks]

Originally Posted by legalaction

I originally came from a country with much weaker legal system so I trusted the law and justice in Canada. Even in my home country, such behavior will not be tolerated, though you might have to resort to other means than a legal action. I came to Canada because I am not accepting the status quo there, now stop telling me in Canada things are even worse and all dealerships are the same. The judicial system exists and people will be sued for their criminal actions. I have seen a lot in my home country and I do not even believe it there, how can you guys be so pessimistic and cynical?

Err...I was trying to express my support for your cause. Not all dealerships are bad, in fact I dealt with a used car salesman with a Mazda dealership and was so impressed with him, I didn't even negotiate the price since it was within my budget.

Anyways, good luck...

[boostfever]

knowing the douchebags at regency nissan/infiniti, this doesn't surprise me a bit.

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by legalaction

Yes all you said is the reason why they want to take the deposit. However, none of these has any legal obligation unless there is a deposit agreement clearly states the definition, the terms and condition of "deposit". I am not a native English speaker, but as far as I know, the word "deposit" has so many meanings. Even in auto transactions, it can mean different things. It is the car dealers who want to confuse these things by using just one word.

Yes I realize those are reasons why they would want to take a deposit... that's what were we discussing. I didn't say there was any legal obligation lol I'm on you side bro.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by BlackZRoadster

Car dealerships don't intend to make a living based off of client's non-refundable deposits. If they did, they would be out of business very fast.

Think about it this way, if you buy a house and you propose an offer, you are obligated to put down a deposit with subjects after the offer is accepted. If all your subjects are met and you decide to "change your mind", you will not receive your deposit back.

Deposits after a deal is agreed upon is so people don't back out of a deal for whatever reason. Unfortunately in our society, money talks, and only offers with monetary backing is considered. When i buy cars, watches, or toys etc. If i put down money and cancel, I'm expecting its gonna be hard to get my money back. I would be ashamed to ask for it back too, because I would feel bad for wasting a person's time.

My pet peeve is spending hours with a client, meeting their expectations in price/car/service, only to have them back out the next day because their plans changed.

Next time any of you walk into a place of business, please consider the salespersons time, and your own time that is wasted. Don't sign a deal unless you are ready to back it up. If you can't back it up, don't go complaining. It's called putting your money where your mouth is.

I surely believe that they do not want to make a living from deposit. That is why they threaten me on buying the car. Again, you are not defining what is a deposit here. In fact, I also spend time shopping and considering paying my money. I do feel compassionate for the salesman who was helping me, because now his manager is claiming that it is all his fault for not informing me, not giving me the copy and "forgetting" the non-refundable deposit. Now he is totally under his manager's control. It seems that the manager not only wanted to set me up, he will also set the salesperson up, if he feels necessary and try to get away from the crime charge. I know that a lot of you may work in this industry as a salesman. Please, you should also beware of what you dealership is doing to you.

If the salesperson that I was speaking of is reading this thread, please do not put your career in danger by simply saying "I don't know" and "I don't remember". This may get your license suspended. If what you say in the future is not consistent with what you told me yesterday, there would be more trouble for you. Your manager is using you and the best way of getting out of this is to tell the truth.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Bah the worst was coming back the next day and the sales manager tells you the customer had come in to take back their deposit without letting you know and youre just like well fuck.

The fact is that I told the salesman beforehand and my original intention was to renegotiate the price. The manager then threatened me with the deposit which I know that they have no right to take. I then said I would not accept any offer before I get the deposit back. They then presented the forged document and pretend it to be legally binding contract. Was I scared? Sorry, I came from a much scarier place and what this guy did is just like a kindergarten bully. Now it is the time for their Halloween. I think you guys will be very interested in listening to his reaction when I told him that I was recording the conversation. Now who is scared?

[Rich Sandor]

The 'purchase agreement' or 'offer to purchase' is not really a legally binding document. It's just a hand-written record to what was offered and what was accepted. The BILL OF SALE is the actual legal document.

[Jgresch]

Originally Posted by legalaction

The fact is that I told the salesman beforehand and my original intention was to renegotiate the price. The manager then threatened me with the deposit which I know that they have no right to take. I then said I would not accept any offer before I get the deposit back. They then presented the forged document and pretend it to be legally binding contract. Was I scared? Sorry, I came from a much scarier place and what this guy did is just like a kindergarten bully. Now it is the time for their Halloween. I think you guys will be very interested in listening to his reaction when I told him that I was recording the conversation. Now who is scared?

I was telling BlackZroadster that it is a pet peeve when that happens, I realize this isn't the case in your case.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Quacks

Err...I was trying to express my support for your cause. Not all dealerships are bad, in fact I dealt with a used car salesman with a Mazda dealership and was so impressed with him, I didn't even negotiate the price since it was within my budget.

Anyways, good luck...

Yes I can see that. I am not trying to blame you. When I say "you" I actually mean people who kept telling me this is normal, and the people who believed that is was non-fundable in your original post. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Also, I agree that not all of them are bad.

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Rich Sandor

The 'purchase agreement' or 'offer to purchase' is not really a legally binding document. It's just a hand-written record to what was offered and what was accepted. The BILL OF SALE is the actual legal document.

Thanks for the clarification. That is also what I thought. So presenting me with a non-legal binding agreement and pretending it to be legal in order to get my deposit or profit does constitute a crime?

[legalaction]

Originally Posted by Jgresch

Yes I realize those are reasons why they would want to take a deposit... that's what were we discussing. I didn't say there was any legal obligation lol I'm on you side bro.

Yes yes. The thing is that I also wanted to clarify this to others. So I continue with what you have said.

[BlackZRoadster]

Why did you put a deposit if you weren't serious?

Is your time not valuable you have to go and work out deals on cars you don't intend on purchasing?
Posted via RS Mobile

[Berzerker]

Obviously he had some intentions to buy or he wouldn't have put a deposit or been looking at cars in the first place. Lets not forget it's the salespersons JOB to cater to people coming in to look at cars. Don't like not selling? Find a new fucking job! lol.

Berz out.

[Redlines_Daily]

Originally Posted by BlackZRoadster

Why did you put a deposit if you weren't serious?

Is your time not valuable you have to go and work out deals on cars you don't intend on purchasing?
Posted via RS Mobile

obviously he intended to purchase then changed his mind, use some common sense.