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Old 12-17-2011, 01:16 AM   #26
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Religion is not by nature evil, it's a beautiful thing, it gives cultures an incredible degree of depth and can inspire people to live a life that pays homage to their surroundings. Examine religions that existed in smaller cultures, native ones for example, they have not been twisted by the ideological dogma inspired by fear seen in large religions like Christianity and Islam. They have a sense of purity in my eyes, I've never been taught to hate homosexuals or suppress women by my native elders, only to respect nature and all that which surrounds us. Those beliefs do not need to be extinguished, if anything our disposable society raping every inch of the earth for short term gratification would benefit from a reminder to respect nature, but I digress.

It is the twisted, dogmatic religions, whose original teachings are only barely detectable and hidden by remnants of centuries old instinctual fears that have been infused into them through ordinary humans during the countless translations and retellings that need to die or dramatically reform. Therein lies my issue with religion, and I believe many atheists would share that view. Americans weren't fanatically anti-Muslim/Islam prior to 9/11; Florida pastors weren't threatening to host Koran fuelled bonfires, TLC had no interest in a reality show, most Americans probably couldn't have told you what a mosque was. Then 9/11 happened, a small and unfortunate group of misguided lemmings had their faith exploited and Americans learned one thing about Islam - a small group of Muslims follow grossly misinterpreted teachings. Those people are an extreme example of the misinterpretation that runs so rampant in religion and is so unbelievably damaging, instead of beneficial to society as a whole. Muslim extremism is also no different than the ridiculous misinterpretations and human additions that have been made to the Christian bible, because really.. being gay and eating shell fish are mortal sins?
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:26 AM   #27
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trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:36 AM   #28
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trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...
It's because there is no compelling evidence for a god. It's that simple.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:40 AM   #29
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WTF...there's nothing overrated about champagne, lobster, anal sex or picnics.

Especially not picnics. They're fucking delightful.

Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:41 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MindBomber View Post
Religion is not by nature evil, it's a beautiful thing, it gives cultures an incredible degree of depth and can inspire people to live a life that pays homage to their surroundings. Examine religions that existed in smaller cultures, native ones for example, they have not been twisted by the ideological dogma inspired by fear seen in large religions like Christianity and Islam. They have a sense of purity in my eyes.
Natives in South America sacrificed virgins to please the gods.

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trying to figure out why some one would not believe in god...

Because some people gave up believing in imaginary things years ago.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:55 AM   #31
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WTF...there's nothing overrated about champagne, lobster, anal sex or picnics.

Especially not picnics. They're fucking delightful.

Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.
This.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:57 AM   #32
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trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...
Because some people don't like the idea of depending on just faith, they prefer proof? You don't need to figure anything out..
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:09 AM   #33
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This.
Glad someone else also think picnics are delightful.
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Old 12-17-2011, 02:14 AM   #34
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You're using the same argument that religious zealots use against atheists.
i.e. "if you're atheist, you're evil, obviously, since you believe in nothing and you don't care about anyone or anything"
Nice straw-man argument attempt there.

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Old 12-17-2011, 02:37 AM   #35
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Hahaha.. no one really notices the flaw in this logic?
In the first 30 seconds, he contradicts him self and fails.
Religion is the source of hate.
We must hate all religion.
He is atheist.. therefore his first point, which claims the source of hate as religion is immediately false.
Hitchens believes that religions is the MAIN source of hatred, but not the ONLY source of hatred. For him to state that it is the main source of hatred while saying that it should be treated with hate is NOT fallacious.

And for you to dismiss his argument simply because he is atheist is a fallacy. Ad hominem argument.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:03 AM   #36
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Nice straw-man argument attempt there.

Oh, you're not?

So then I was wrong, and you actually see that religion it self isn't twisted, rather it's the people who do the twisting and ultimately people them selves are at fault?
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:04 AM   #37
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Glad someone else also think picnics are delightful.
I mean't the last part of your quote.



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Hitchens believes that religions is the MAIN source of hatred, but not the ONLY source of hatred. For him to state that it is the main source of hatred while saying that it should be treated with hate is NOT fallacious.

And for you to dismiss his argument simply because he is atheist is a fallacy. Ad hominem argument.

Wait, when did I dismiss him because of his atheism?
I can dismiss him for thinking that he's an idiot. But he isn't an idiot for being atheist, he's an idiot for where he places the blame of all of Humanity's problems.

EDIT: I just read my post and that last sentence does look like I'm dismissing him because of it. I'm actually not.
I'm only pointing out that he is atheist (in his mind a stance that isn't a source of hatred like religion is) but encourages to hate, therefore contradicting his statement that religion is the main source.

You're also right, he says it's the main source. Regardless, he's still wrong. And I'm sure he believes atheism would be the perfect solution. Which is also wrong.

Greed and Love of power are the main sources of evil.
The main source of hatred is Humanity it self.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:21 AM   #38
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Finally you said something definitively failable. Now let's let this thread RIP like Chris Hitchens
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:37 AM   #39
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. It's Family Guy, but these came to mind with the way the thread is sort of going. Also, the comments in both videos have the same fanatics of both sides that were mentioned.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:49 AM   #40
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trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...
trying hard to figure out why you would not believe in Unicorns...
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:19 AM   #41
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“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the ‘Universe’ —a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts, and feelings, as something separated from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

The religion of the future will be a cosmic religion. It should transcend a personal God and avoid dogmas and theology. Covering both the natural and the spiritual, it should be based on a religious sense arising from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity. Buddhism answers this description.”
I don't disagree.
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Old 12-17-2011, 10:58 AM   #42
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Finally you said something definitively failable. Now let's let this thread RIP like Chris Hitchens

I'll assume my self the victor, seeing as how you have nothing to add but the fail button to an argument that is anything but hypocritical and filled with religious bigotry.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:06 PM   #43
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this thread is sad rofl.
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Old 12-17-2011, 04:10 PM   #44
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Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.
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Religion, atheism, who cares? Believe in what you want to believe in. I could care less. What I hate are fanatics and there are plenty on either side.
I understand you are trying to be the voice of reason here, but in the interest of bettering society, we have to be critical of each others actions and motives. I agree that religion can motivate people to do good things, but religion is the basis for many policy-makers' decisions around the world (see: marriage inequality) and people like Chuck Norris are endorsing teaching the Bible as history in the US, when at most it should be treated as literature. This is double plus uncool as it corrupts young kids. It may not indoctrinate them, but I'm sure those that have less than stellar critical thinking skills will fall into the creationism hole. This is pure mis-education.

I have many religious friends and the religious/atheist dichotomy does not interfere with our daily interactions, but when it comes to political decisions that can affect my way of living, the importance of the religious debate escalates far past "live and let live."

-------------------

A nice quote from someone on reddit: "When Christians recognize the deep-seated need for social justice that their religion demands, they can do incredibly great things, beyond all imagining, and uplift humanity out of suffering and deprivation.

When they forget, there is no greater evil that humanity can know."
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Old 12-17-2011, 06:59 PM   #45
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Caught the tail end of an inverview on cbc this morning about him. The first guy said he was the best thing since sliced bread & the world would never be the same without him. Second guy hated his guts...said as long as he was destroying conservatives and right wing types, he was wonderful, but when he switched sides and went after sacred left wingers like Chomskey et al, he was the devil himself and he was glad he was gone. Funny to hear the cbc actually permitted both sides of an argument, but they did allow the nay-sayer to rant a lot longer than the supporter....surprise, surprise.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:23 PM   #46
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if you are an atheist that's a belief system too. to tell others that there is no god is just the same as what you hate so much (religion). i find the hypocrisy to be hilarious.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:30 PM   #47
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Atheist isn't a "belief" in anything, it's an acknowledgement in lack of 'belief' in fairy tales.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:31 PM   #48
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Calling atheism is a religion (belief system) is like calling bald is a hair colour. Simply, it isn't.

With atheism, there is no dogma, there is no encouraged moral code, there is no specific doctrine to follow. The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:49 PM   #49
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Calling atheism is a religion (belief system) is like calling bald is a hair colour. Simply, it isn't.

With atheism, there is no dogma, there is no encouraged moral code, there is no specific doctrine to follow. The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.
Calling atheism a religion would be like calling bald a hair color.. but unit didn't call it a religion. He called it a belief, which is what it is . You believe that to be true.
Belief and religion are different.

With that said, you have an opinion, which is that X, Y or Z do not exist. That IS a belief, you can't prove that it doesn't exist and therefore it is a belief. Just like I can't prove that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, but I believe that X Y or Z do.

A belief in God requires faith.
A belief in no God requires that that person only believe in what he/she can see touch or feel and that anything outside of that doesn't exist.

Both are still beliefs because neither can be proved or disproved.
What part of that doesn't make sense?

Again, please remember, he didn't call atheism a religion.


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The only requirement to labeling oneself as an atheist is having a lack of belief in a deity.
Which in and of it self is a belief

You believe there isn't, I believe there is. Both have a word in common, I'm sure you can find it. (Yes, I sound condescending, but come on, they both are what they are).



Oh and I don't see how this thread is bad in anyway.. a thread about theism, atheism that isn't a flame war.. and somehow it's labeled as stupid or fail? Give me a break, RS.
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Last edited by The7even; 12-17-2011 at 08:58 PM.
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Old 12-17-2011, 09:00 PM   #50
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trying to figure out why some one would not belive in god...
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